We have failed as parents...

Obviously something has gone wrong, whether you blame the parents or society, is neither here nor there. Instead of playing the blame game, we should be looking into the root of the problem and trying to come up with a solution.


A favorite parenting quote of mine:

Listen earnestly to anything your children want to tell you, no matter what. If you don't listen eagerly to the little stuff when they are little, they won't tell you the big stuff when they are big, because, to them, all of it has always been big stuff.

-Catherine Wallace

reply to post by dawnstar


I don't think that is what he meant. I think he meant a One income family where one parent was always at home and always available to spend time with the children. Maybe it got lost in the terminology of the "old days" stereotypes where daddy went to work and Mom took care of the house...irrelevant to the point though.

When we were forced to send both "home makers" into the work force, our children suffered. I have no doubts this is...if not intentional on the part of the State... welcome by them nonetheless. This invites invisible bureaucrats into your life where they make new rules, laws and regulations to control your home and your growing family...it used to not need to be this way.

reply to post by daryllyn


Very good, fix the problem and don't try to blame others.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by dawnstar

 

I don't think that is what he meant. I think he meant a One income family where one parent was always at home and always available to spend time with the children. Maybe it got lost in the terminology of the "old days" stereotypes where daddy went to work and Mom took care of the house...irrelevant to the point though.

When we were forced to send both "home makers" into the work force, our children suffered. I have no doubts this is...if not intentional on the part of the State... welcome by them nonetheless. This invites silent bureaucrats into your life where they make new rules, laws and regulations to control your home and your growing family...it used to not need to be this way.

edit on 1/8/2013 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)

This is true, it doesn't have to be the woman, it could be the man that stays home with the kids. Traditionally the woman did it but was not appreciated by many of the men in society and they were taken for granted by some husbands. It has to be a checks and balance system with both parents involved. Most women were trained to be level headed though and that was their job. Back in the sixties men could make a living for their family though, the woman didn't need to work after a while. Now with the increase in the workers both have to work to make ends meet. A serious problem that has formed.

reply to post by rickymouse


No one is perfect, we all make mistakes, no one is a perfect parent.

Time would be better spent problem solving than finger pointing.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by rickymouse

 

when were the women not working?? just wondering here???

I mean I can show you old picture of women working back in time...they were working!

and well, to be honest, my mom worked as a bartender at the neighborhood bar...
my father worked at the city water plant...
and well, alot of times their schedules clashed and I ended up going to work with one or another...
(how many kids do you see in bars today?)
I grew up in danged bars, it taught me one thing...
I hate drunks!!
but, well, my mom worked had to. my grandma worked, had to, and well before that one they were working at home producing quilts and other sewing things for money..
so, when were they not working.

Women in a family could work if they wanted before. Many did work at home doing canning, sewing, etc... to help to bring up the family. A family didn't need two cars though, an added expense. Even when you were in the bar with your mother, you were under her control, things were stricter in the sixties but kids were allowed to be in bars back then. Knowledge is knowledge, you learned from that experience.

My mother worked part time and made a descent wage back in the sixties. The extra income made it so we could afford newer cars and some more modern appliances than others. All of which were basicly unnecessary to survive, some being necessary to speed up the cooking process or to make it more convenient to work. It is a never ending cycle. Many men screwed this up by not respecting their wives. Not all men were like that though, some men put their wives on pedestals knowing they were necessary for their way of life.

There is no right or wrong to anything just a perception and an ability to look at the overall picture. Many people were satisfied with less those days. This made it possible for women to stay home. In comes Capitalism which almost makes it a sin to be old fashioned and wants everyone to buy what they want and do not need. This causes everyone to work more......until there isn't enough jobs available anymore because of outsourcing all the manufacturing jobs. I worked in a few factories for a while, I thought they were stress free jobs that payed pretty well. Nobody seems to want those kind of jobs anymore but take pills to deal with stress.

What you say is right though, your parents wanted to give a better life for the kids so worked their tails off to get ahead. Nothing wrong with that, my parents did the same thing.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
You know I was thinking, in light of all these children and teems who are being arrested for possible attacks on their schools, those kids are eventually found out to been picked on, parents putting their children on ADD and ADHD medication, I come to realize, we have failed as parents.

So, because some bad stuff happens society has just complete flunked out? I'm sorry, but that's silly. I was on ADD medication when I was young. I really had it, I still have it. That has nothing to do with failure on the part of my mother or father (or myself) ADHD. If they didn't want my to have it the only solution was for me to never be born. As a person who has it, I can tell you it's not some kind of scam. You cannot prevent it either. I think a lot of kids are being mis-diagnosed because there are parents out there who just don't want to deal with them, but that is something else. If you have ADHD you will know it and you will not grow out of it. Most people who have it aren't getting treatment for it.

I was picked on, beat up, spit on, you name it, it happened to me as a kid growing up. We were one of the poorest families in the neighborhood, and my mother and stepdad had the rep of being the drunks of the neighborhood, in other words, white trash on Long Island NY. this was back in the 80's
Never ONCE did I EVER even THINK about killing anyone or blowing up the school.

I was generally treated badly outside of my home. I will openly admit I fantasized about getting back at the people who hurt me. Now, those weren't extreme (i.e. killing someone), but they were there.

We just didnt think about doing that back then.

BS, there were school shootings then, there just wasn't 24 hour news.

What did we do as parents, to fail our children, to make them think about doing these things?

What we have always been doing. Parents have been failing kids for ages, but we obviously can't have done too bad if we've gotten to this point. Society used to be a lot worse you know. Nothing is ever going to be perfect and we have to accept that.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


and....when was that????
the first job I had was at local canning factory.
that was just about where all the kid's started working at.
it was seasonal for us, but they did work year round.
and well, most of the non-seasonal workers were females older than my parents were and had been working there a long time.
they were not old maids, matter of fact, some of my friends mom worked there. heck my mom worked there some.

en.wikipedia.org...
umm 1911, and there they were working...

maybe you are talking about those women who were oven on the other side of town, the drs wives and such...

I can't speak for how talking to one's kids more would prevent malevolent thoughts and actions towards the world, but I certainly have a soapbox-full of things to say about how parents might go about doing the talking in general.
Two major points: don't let the talks devolve within the first five minutes into the same exact subject each time. The subject, of course, being about all of the things that are wrong with your kid. It's just as useless to be judgmental if you are asked for advice.
My parents wonder frequently why I never want to talk to them, but telling them the real reason wouldn't end well. And so I continue to present my worries to the Internet for helpful, non-judgmental responses.

Secondly, take mentions of suicidal thoughts seriously. Don't jump and scream and stuff, but don't say, "There's nothing for you to be depressed about." I would love to know how many parents of those successful suicides who said, "Why didn't he ever say anything?" really were told about it but just blew it off as no big deal.

Because I have what is labeled a problem child, I can tell you where we failed.
We failed in questioning the drugs teachers and doctors want to put our kids on.
We failed in spending an hour a night with our kids (it's quality, not quantity)
We failed by letting the "system" tell us our kids have more rights than we do.
We failed by letting the "system" fail our children.


Somehow, despite most of the above, my son has made it through and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
If I had it all to do over again, I would have all of my extened family living next door or with me, and NEVER deal with the courts or public schools.

I can see why they used to say "It takes a village" Most of that village was related!

I believe drugs being pushed on kids are a huge factor myself. I started school in the late 80's, in kindergarten the school counselor wanted me on ritalin. Thankfully my parents actually gave a crap enough to see a real professional. He told us the school system was full of crap, I was just a normal kid. He said it was a big problem in that school district, and that if it was possible, move. The teachers were lousy, and wanted drugged up kids to try and compensate for it.

Well, my pops worked longer days so we could move by next year. No problems with "ADD" since then. I am doubtful it was an isolated thing to only that particular school district. The whole school system is retarded, expecting kids to sit there and be quiet and all that, it is prettymuch the opposite of how kids actually learn.....

reply to post by HomerinNC
It's just so strange! When I was in high school during hunting season the parking lot was full of trucks with rifles in the gun racks. The only stipulation was that ammo had to be kept in the glove box and vehicles had to be locked. And what do ya know? Nobody went on a shooting spree at school. Legal drinking age was 18, and yet there weren't a bunch of drunk kids staggering down the hallways.

I'm not sure when things changed, but at some point parents (a lot of them) stopped acting like parents and started trying to be their kids "friends". Out went the days of taking away privileges and doing hard work on the weekends as punishment for wrong doings and in came the days of "time out" and medications for things that used to be handled in a punishment/reward system. Wouldn't want the "little darlings" to be mad at us or not like us because we are "mean". Oh, they're not bad kids- just misunderstood! Let's just dope them up and leave them their privacy to "find themselves".

Some would like to blame outside influences such as games, movies, television, advertising, etc. but who pays for the games, the cable TV,the trips to the movies, the internet service? The parents do, that's who! Who doesn't supervise the kids so that they know what is going on in their lives? The parents. Who doesn't discipline the kids when they do bad? The parents. A famous president once said "The buck stops here." When it comes to kids the "buck" stops with the parents.

I can't believe people would rather throw pills at their kids for having ADHD etc, rather than explore the issue.
My brother is 23, and when he was in primary school, the teachers all thought he was a trouble maker because they couldn't get him to sit still, couldn't get him to stop talking to the other children during directed learning time etc. Turns out he was just vastly under-stimulated. In Year 2, he was finishing his work before all the other children, leaving him bored, so they made him start doing maths work for older children. It was challenging him and thats what he needed.

No pills, no counselling, no therapy.

We've come to an age where people are putting their children in pre-school or nursery, or leaving them with child care providers as soon as they are able. In the UK, some places take children from less than 6 months old.
Parents are just strangers to their children these days, so when they try to discipline them, the kids are like "WTF, who are you to tell me off?" and so the parents are walked all over.

It used to be that a family could comfortably live on one parents wage, and one parent would stay at home for the kids. Now both parents need to work to be able to cover their mortgage or rent and bills. And so people are palming their kids off on strangers.
Strangers aren't allowed to discipline kids, so who's doing the parenting?

reply to post by HomerinNC


Speak for yourself. I'm very open with my children and speak WITH them not to them about pretty much everything. They ask I answer. Or if a situation comes up we sit down at the table prepare some refreshments and don't leave the table until the situation is resolved or come to an understanding which benefits everyone. Usually comes with compromise. A life lesson not too many parents teach their kids today from what I have observed. I'm far from a perfect parent but I do my best. Not too many parents do that either.

Drugs are for healing and fun, not parenting. Until people learn this they will fail over and over.

Second line.

There are too many people, that have children, but they don`t know how to be a parent.
I see children in public who act like little savages rather than civilized humans and the parents who are with them act as if it is completely normal behaviour. I wonder where the parents learned to think that,that type of behaviour is normal in a modern civilized society?
if children aren`t taught to act in a civilized manner they will resort to their natural instincts of acting like wild animals.
It seems that too many parents believe that all they need to do is provide their children with food and shelter and the children will be able to raise themselves.These parents raise savages and unleash them on society when they turn 18. Maybe society should start holding parents accountable for their lack of parenting skills?

legally nobody can tell you how to raise your children,so since you have 100% of the benefit of raising your children the way you want to, then you should also bear 100% of the accountability for how your children act once they turn 18 and are unleashed on society.
Why should society society have to pay the price of your failed experiment in child rearing?

Some parents have failed, but I really don't think that this equates to school shootings. Can it be a factor? Absolutely. Any number of things can be a factor, but the only real requirement is the chemical imbalance inside. call it whatever you want. Evil? Maybe. Some sort of brain development gone wrong? Maybe.

Some kids, just like some adults, are simply born into this world with the desire and ability to take a life and the inability to deal with what life throws their way. You can change every possible factor for the better and there will still be that small percentage of kids that will commit the most heinous of crimes.

Don't get me wrong. Good parenting is vital, and you can see many examples every day of bad parenting all around you. That, in and of itself, is not the main reason for these kids' decisions to shoot up a school.

reply to post by HomerinNC


So essentially, because you grew up in that type of home environment & didn't end up violent/criminal, that applies to everyone else?? Broadest generalization I've seen... I can guarantee that there are countless children from every generation who turn out psychologically unstable, violent, criminal, etc.

One big difference is the medications being prescribed these days; if a child so much as acts hyper, the doctors are ready to hand out amphetamines & synthetics as the solution... It's completely ludicrous. I'm not a parent, but you shouldn't be telling everyone they've failed as parents because of some isolated cases of violence.

reply to post by Tardacus


I some what agree with you. I do agree that some parents do have children for the sake of having children. And what ever the result...so be it. But as far as saying parents should bare 100% of the responsibility for their children's actions once they become adults, I don't agree at all. Here's why.
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I have a family member who always took very good care of his children. He's a quiet man with a strong sense of conviction and family. His sons were enrolled in pretty much all they wanted to. Soccer, hockey, you name it. They had good grades and had good friends. The oldest one started hanging out with the wrong crowd. Despite being grounded for hanging around those guy and being told they were bad news and trying so hard to keep him from making the wrong choices he did anyway. He moved out of his parents house at 17. Now he's going on 19 and in jail for a very bad crime. We have no history of abuse in our family and we are all very close. My point is no matter what you do as a parent if your kid is to turn out bad, he'll turn out bad.

reply to post by Lulzaroonie


I can't understand pills either. I believe one of the major issues is the educational system. the "trying to teach a fish how to climb a tree" thing. They teach the same thing to every kid. If a kid is not academically inclined but is very good at using his body, why not have a program that will cater to that? A program that will include sport, crafts, simple math and grammar. And as time goes on the can home in to what he prefers and can actually build a career with the skills set he naturally has. If the kid is told he's ignorant all his life because he can't figure out calculus or can't concentrate in class because he has an abundance of energy and sitting there 8 hours a day drives him crazy, doesn't one come to the conclusion this child will grow up to be unstable in some way. After all, kids are in school more than with their parents.