Physics is not broken

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posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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The other day I posted an OP regarding the link between quantum weirdness and regular Newtonian physics. Finally, I have the answer: super positioning is not only for particles, it's being done if I may say so by matter no matter (no pun intended) the size or composition. That is if nothing happens to decohere the thing.

The double slit experiment has been done with a buckey ball consisting of 240 C atoms. Massive compared to just an electron.

So what we experience is a world of matter that has a selected state, in other words the quantum wave has collapsed. This because it interacts with other matter or expels/absorbs energy.

So there is no rift between QM and Newtonian science.

From wikipedia:
An important version of this experiment involves single particles (or waves — for consistency, they are called particles here). Sending particles through a double-slit apparatus one at a time results in single particles appearing on the screen, as expected. Remarkably, however, an interference pattern emerges when these particles are allowed to build up one by one (see the image to the right). For example, when a laboratory apparatus was developed that could reliably fire one electron at a time through the double slit,[14] the emergence of an interference pattern suggested that each electron was interfering with itself, and therefore in some sense the electron had to be going through both slits at once[15] — an idea that contradicts our everyday experience of discrete objects. This phenomenon has also been shown to occur with atoms and even some molecules, including buckyballs.[10][16][17] So experiments with electrons add confirmatory evidence to the view of Dirac that electrons, protons, neutrons, and even larger entities that are ordinarily called particles nevertheless have their own wave nature and even their own specific frequencies.
en.wikipedia.org...

This may be old news to quantum physicists, but most certainly not for me.

 
Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.
edit on 7/1/2013 by ArMaP because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by QueenofWeird
 


I'm a little confused as to what you are getting at here...

Am I correct in understanding that you believe that the duality of particle physics (where they act as both a probability wave and a single particle) applies to the grand scale objects that Newtonian physics is related to, I.E. planetary bodies, but since the particles are interacting with other particles, creating matter, their wave form collapses, thus creating the matter we know and love?

Seems to make sense but when things make sense, dealing with quantum mechanics, you are usually wrong.

There is indeed a rift between the two, you can not apply quantum mechanics to large objects, and you can not apply Newtonian physics to sub atomic objects. This is why a grand unified theory is sought, something to fit in the overlaps, M theory is one of the best in my opinion.

I'll have to look into your thoughts, it does seem to make sense, as shown with the double slit experiment, once you begin to measure the particle (any measurement requires physical contact, even if it's merely a photon) you interfere with the waveform function and it behaves like a single particle.

But I'm confused as to at what level this would manifest. A buckyball is a collection of atoms, so right there, if your theory is true to my understanding of it, shouldn't those atoms interfere with the waveform function and for the buckyball to react with classical newtonian physics?

Personally, I still think there's a massive piece of the puzzle missing, but i sure love reading about this junk



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by QueenofWeird

From wikipedia:
For example, when a laboratory apparatus was developed that could reliably fire one electron at a time through the double slit,[14] the emergence of an interference pattern suggested that each electron was interfering with itself, and therefore in some sense the electron had to be going through both slits at once[15] — an idea that contradicts our everyday experience of discrete objects. This phenomenon has also been shown to occur with atoms and even some molecules, including buckyballs.[10][16][17] So experiments with electrons add confirmatory evidence to the view of Dirac that electrons, protons, neutrons, and even larger entities that are ordinarily called particles nevertheless have their own wave nature and even their own specific frequencies.
en.wikipedia.org...

This may be old news to quantum physicists, but most certainly not for me.


The trick here is to recognise the potential flaws in the above conjecture:
1. electrons are both particles and waves.
2. Electrons interfere with themselves.

Now going to number 2. If you assume that the only way to get an interference pattern is via an interference wave then you are clearly left with conclusion 1.

However, if you look at conclusion 1 and think about it. Physicists only have an approximation for the behaviour of sub atomic particles ie sometimes the particle approximation fits and sometimes the wave approximation fits ie different behaviours (and thus property related) depending on circumstance. In actual fact the nature of a sub atomic particle is (in my opinion) a "single something" which they have not yet identified. That "quantum single something" (I'll call it qss) is actually interfering with the slit and thus creates a pattern as if it was a wave. This means that appropriate larger atomic/molecular sized objects could theoretically also produce a wave pattern if they interfere with the slit. This also leads to an uncomfortable conclusion about entanglement. All that is is the synchronising of all the "qss" properties and thus for a limited time two particles behave as if linked.

Just a theory which eliminates some awkward problems but puts a real dampener on some of the more exotic theories about the universe. My theory could be nonsense but no more so than nothing exists until observed.
edit on 7/1/2013 by yorkshirelad because: fix bold



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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It's not my theory
Once I found that molecules interfere in the slits experiment I read on a physics forum the explanation about decoherence and super positioning as a quality of all matter. Now this idea is not an a peer revised site, that's why I didn't include it. But let me do it anyway:


There are not two separate worlds, quantum and classical. Everything is a quantum object under the proper conditions. Even something with internal structure like a buckyball. Even something complex like a cat. What proper conditions? Complete isolation and noninteraction with the rest of the world. A 'classical object' is constantly emitting and absorbing photons, so you can 'see' it, where it is, and which path it is following. A 'quantum object' is in total isolation as it travels from the emitter to the detector, consequently its position during that interval is unknown, which allows it to self-interfere. Under conditions of total isolation, you can do the two-slit experiment with asteroids.
www.physicsforums.com...



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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Personally, I still think there's a massive piece of the puzzle missing, but i sure love reading about this junk


A large part of what is missing (this is my own personal opinion) is the 'discarded' data from 'normalization'. If all data aquired cannot be infused into the theory or calculations then that in itself negates the validity of the findings.





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