Bolivia slams US over 'irrefutable evidence' of meddling

reply to post by Gorman91


Countries that interfere with other nations at a level and to the degree that the US does are few and far between.

Take the simple fact of how many US military bases on foreign soil there is, that's no secret, what other countries can rival that?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Nina2010

 

I'm sure you speak for ALL the world, especially all those countries with their hands out for our money and resources to develop themselves. The US gives more money to the UN than any other country, not that I especially like that because the UN is the seat of World Govt. Our leaders have been promoting UN Treaties lately, including honoring UN Agenda 21 with an EO implementing it in the US.
Yes, Obama signed a new EO establishing the WH Rural Council to help implement UN AGenda 21

farmwars.info...

They just don't call it Communism but that is what it really is.

edit on 7-1-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

You went on a complete tangent there. So the USA buys corrupt governments in other countries then they stomp them when they decide to have independent thought that does not fall in line with what the USA wants.

I am trying to understand how that excuses the USA from meddling in another countries affairs.....that is essentially what this OP is about.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by polarwarrior

 

Show me a country that hasn't meddled in another country.

pss, they don't exist.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

To say that other counties are doing it too, does not in any way make what the US is doing right. They are still in the wrong aren't they?

Not to mention the US prides themselves in supposedly being of a higher standard.

We can talk about other counties and instances in other threads. Derailing this one with classic finger pointing "he did it too, so its OK for me to do it" just shows you have no argument or evidence, only logical fallacies.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


The small nation banned the CocaCola corporation doing business there in mid December too.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
political machinations of the US Embassy,”

As I understand it most US Embassies are staffed with CIA Officials.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Eh, that's trying to make a separate category for something which all nations would do in the same position.

Every super power has done this. It's just the way the world works. Russia to Rome. And hey, not all those nations collapsed, and not all those nations necessarily took down their bases.

Yelling at the gear works of the human condition is futile. Instead, you should be working to make the need for that futile. You will never stop a nation from doing what all nations have done by yelling at the most recent doer of such things.

50 years down the road, don't be surprised to find Chinese bases in Europe and Brazilian bases in God knows where.

reply to post by polarwarrior


First you'd have to show me where right or wrong comes in to meddling. I'm not convinced it is an inherently bad or good thing. Would you really be that against say, Germany-or the EU- 30 years from now, sending aid and soldiers to America and having bases on the East Coast?

I'm not entirely sure it would be bad.

Originally posted by JewAgainstZionism
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

It is common knowledge that US sabotages covertly whoever it can.
(even sabotages Canada when it comes to meat and lumber trade)

That's the thing with Israel too. Israel doesn't just sit there like a
neighbor watching you across the fence, it overtly sabotages you as a neighbor.

And poor average American asks,

Why do they hate us ???

edit on 7-1-2013 by JewAgainstZionism because: (no reason given)

While I know nothing about state sabotage against Canadian trade markets, except for what I learned through the movie "Canadian Bacon," but I concur with your other points. There are multiple documented accounts of state intelligence agencies like the CIA using covert tradecraft tactics against foreign regimes and power structures, always to achieve a certain goal. And I am positive that there are many more instances of this illegal behavior that have not been unearthed and presented to the people of the US. There have even been instances of the US backing certain candidates for president in other countries. There have even been international military actions involving US special forces that were designed to both destabilize certain regions, thus keeping them from instituting a respectable government, and stage coups against existing regimes followed by instituting leaders who would give in to the US on various issues.

So throughout the 20th century and into the 21st, there are countries that may be on friendly terms with the US, but not by the choice of the people. Actions of this nature done by the CIA really opened my eyes to just how much of an illusion the power structure is, and just how transient it is, even though people in modern countries today mostly do not realize it. They do not know that at any moment, for a variety of reasons, everything could change at the snap of someone's fingers.

Regarding the evidence that Bolivia supposedly has...They say they may release it to Obama, although I am quite positive that he was informed of the actions in that country before they were carried out. He may have even approved them. Things seemed to have worked differently with different presidents here in the US. Some had much more of a hand in CIA operations than others, and I do not know which side of the divide Obama falls on. But honestly, the CIA does not have to answer to the president, and they can simply choose not to inform him of certain operations, although Obama is briefed everyday by representatives of different agencies.

What I think Bolivia should do is publish ALL of the evidence on the web. Let the American people see it, although I do not know if it would cause enough outrage to spur action on the part of the citizenry. You know what the worst part about actions like this is? The CIA and other agencies like them also work for certain corporate interests, and since they have so much power, they have the ability to get things done. They have been highly responsible for making many of the 1% even richer. I mean just think about the money and power that is concentrated into the hands of the few. They have enough power to even use the military to their advantage. Look at what happened in Iraq, as that is a great example.

And the post I quoted mentioned Israel, and it is spot on. They scare me more than the US as they turn to assassinations much more frequently. I have read everything I could find on declassified, and some classified, operations by Mossad, and they are ruthless. Some of what I learned led directly to my belief that Mossad was involved in planning, and possibly even carrying out, the events of 9/11. The evidence is there for those who wish to find it. The bottom line is that actions of this nature by the US government, on top of all the other illegal crap they pull, is hurting us overall, and shortening the life of our Republic. Well really this is not a Republic democracy anymore, considering that most politicians represent corporate interests over the interests of those who elected them. Personally I feel that actions like this should be considered treasonous when involving other countries, and a felony if involving strictly American corporations and other businesses.

narcosphere.narconews.com...

[QUOTE] Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase & Co., Wachovia (acquired by Wells Fargo in 2009), HSBC Holdings, ING Bank, Standard Chartered, American Express Bank International, and not a few others, have a common bond beyond ranking among the largest banks in the world.

All have been accused within the past five years (and several this year) of failing to comply with US anti-money laundering laws — thereby enabling, collectively, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of suspicious transactions to move through the banking system absent adequate monitoring or oversight.

Yet not one these banks, nor any of their top executives, has been hit with criminal sanctions.

All, with the exception of Britain’s HSBC (which is still under investigation), have agreed to pay fines for their alleged transgressions after being served cease-and-desist orders or have entered into so-called deferred-prosecution pacts — under which a lender agrees to pay a fine and to comply with the law going forward in exchange for dismissal of all charges at the end of a specified government monitoring period. [END QUOTE]

FOLLOW THE MONEY?: Because the entire operation is compartmentalized from a NSA alphabet group or CIA there are very few who know what is going on; it does not matter if it is a foreign Nation or right here in our own back yard.

I am probably wasting electrons by saying the Drug War is a system open for corruption at department levels not just on the street and by all measurements (except the worlds largest prison population) it is a failed policy that continues to make a few rich (or pay for some black op) and the many others jailed with a conviction on their record..

Originally posted by Gorman91


50 years down the road, don't be surprised to find Chinese bases in Europe and Brazilian bases in God knows where.

I seriously doubt it.

We are talking about modern times here, not empires of the past. In this day and age the US is the biggest culprit when it comes to either covertly or overtly messing about in other peoples countries, you simply cannot deny this.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Actually I can. I don't even want to begin to count the trillions lost to Chinese copyright infringement, or for that matter go into other things of espionage.

It may be modern times, but there are still empires. And they still have their games of thrones, and they still fight, be it through dollar or bullet.

Nations rise and fall and still do. You may yet see Greece become a national socialist power, or Turkey become a regional power if it fights and defeats Syria. Or who knows, maybe Russia falls and another takes her place more war hungry. North Korea could collapse and cause South Korea to become vengeful, causing regional instability.

We simple do not know. And it is not stable to say it won't happen.

I am perfectly confident that the US is is on the down trend, and I am equally confident that the world will fight over what she leaves behind, just as it fought over what every super power left behind.

reply to post by Gorman91


I understand your point about the ebb and flow of power and control around the world as decades and centuries pass, a valid view, no doubt.

Name to me one country that has anything like, what is it? Somewhere between 730 and 770 military bases in over 130 different foreign countries? When it comes to meddling: I'm not saying nobody else would do what the US does if they got the chance, I'm saying that right now the US is the one doing it! Yes others are too, but does that make it ok?

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Again, I don't view it at bad or good. So a question like "is it ok?" I don't view it as valid. Rome had such bases. Britain had such bases. France had similar. Russia similar in the cold war. China you could say does it by proxy, because there are so many cultures and peoples in China herself that she basically is a continental union.

And for all those listed, there have been ways it worked well, and ways it worked badly.

When America leaves the position of global super power. I'm simply not convinced someone wouldn't replace them.

Someone has always replaced the last guy.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed



I'm hoping they do but Bolivia better be careful or they might find themselves locked in a heated battle with our clandestine three letter crew.

Why wouldn't the US government mess with other countries when they mistreat its own citizens. United States citizens are spied on by their own government, forced to fight in pointless wars and kept in financial slavery. This is NOT the land of the free. We are given a ' choice ' between two unqualified puppet candidates who never do what they promised during their campaigns. The US government is out of control and a threat to both its citizens and the world. Revolution must take place here and around the world to remove the old money slave masters from power. Until then it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they steal the American people's tax dollars and spend it on their clandestine operations in Bolivia and around the world. Is anyone really surprised by the US meddling in the affairs of others?

reply to post by Nina2010


What country has Independent thought? Just look at how many countries are signed onto the whole Sustainable Development thing from Agenda 21, Bolivia included. You imagine that is independent thinking? It is indoctrination and brainwashing.
But just a thought, the US feeds more mouths than any other country.

reply to post by Gorman91

When America leaves the position of global super power. I'm simply not convinced someone wouldn't replace them.

Maybe POTUS is hoping for Kenya or Indonesia, or Venezuela, or maybe even Bolivia.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Did you know that Russians were known to have dressed and talked exactly like US residents while encamped here? It was undetectable to the naked eye.
Also, in the last two years, there was an incident where data from the Internet in the US was filtered through Chinese servers.

Don't even talk about meddling unless you give complete disclosure.

For 18 minutes in April, China’s state-controlled telecommunications company hijacked 15 percent of the world’s Internet traffic, including data from U.S. military, civilian organizations and those of other U.S. allies.

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I have no idea why you'd say that. It's pretty obvious those countries answer to other ones, they don't exactly lead. Maybe in the next cycle they will.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I have no idea why you'd say that. It's pretty obvious those countries answer to other ones, they don't exactly lead. Maybe in the next cycle they will.

Well, I was being snarky about POTUS's birth roots, then I was being snarky about his friendship with Socialist leader Chavez, and I couldn't help adding Communist leaning Bolivia for posterity.
I forgot all about China though, and China is probably the one most likely to achieve Superpower status the way things are going.

I can see how that might irritate you considering you just stated you would vote for Obama a third term.