House GOP Looks To Abolish IRS, Replace Income Tax With Consumption Tax, page 5

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 41 times

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 03:31 PM by macman

reply to post by jimmyx

Yes.
Why??Let me guess. It just isn't fair, right?

Good hell.
Taxing the income of someone is about as evil as you can get. Especially when it is a sliding progressive scale, where higher earners get taxed at a higher rate.

Either a flat tax on all, no exceptions, or a tax on consumption.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 03:32 PM by macman

Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
The fairtax will never pass, even though it is exactly what we need. Get rid of all other taxes(at the federal level) and implement this system. No irs, no obama care tax, it can all be gone. It would be the biggest shift of power going toward the people and away from government since the articles of confederation after the American revolution. Our politicians will never allow it to pass.

so...if a person makes 10 million a year, but only spends 1 million a year...he is taxed on 10% of his income
and...if a person makes 50 thousand a year, and spends 45 thousand...he is taxed on 90% of his income

Tax all financial transactions. The $10M a year earner must move that money in some way other than stick in under a mattress.

Transactions are not consumption, in the world of moving money around.

Consumption is based on goods and services.
There would be a tax on the transaction for buying more stocks, if you will. Not moving money from one bank to another.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 04:56 PM by SecludedGamer

while they abolish irs can they abolish all the other taxes they made too???
hey I can dream cant I.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 05:48 PM by MasterOfTheDamned

for those saying this would cripple the fed financially, this is what wiki shows for income taxes collected last year

During FY 2012, CBO's preliminary estimates indicate the federal government collected approximately $2.45 trillion in tax revenue or 15.7% GDP, up $148B since 2011, with tax receipts rising across all major categories.[8]
en.wikipedia.org...

this is an article i found showing american's spending habits which may not include everything to be taxed by the consumption tax

Last year, Americans spent $10.7 trillion shopping. With that much dough, you could buy over 2000 aircraft carriers, 300 private islands, and still have money left over for a latte. Here’s a taste of the things we bought—and how much we spent on them.

Read the full text here: www.mentalfloss.com...
--brought to you by mental_floss!

at a consumption tax rate of 23 percent that would be $2.461 trillion, i'm sorry but i just don't understand how making an extra $60 billion can hurt the feds at all

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 05:50 PM by ExPostFacto

My only problem with this bill is that the tax threshold of poverty will need to be markedly increased. Average costs to sustain a family in very meager circumstances costs roughly $20,000-35,000 and this is at the very low end. So let's say you make 35k. You will most certainly spend every dime you make just to live. You will be taxed at 23%. This means that close to $8050 will go toward paying taxes giving you $26,950 to buy actual products. While you won't be exactly poor you will be possibly not making enough to survive. My sense is that in many ways this tax system might hurt those on the upper end of poor, or lower end of middle class.

Again, while not opposed to this system a hard look needs to be taken to ensure those that spend all their money to pay rent, to get to work, to eat, and enjoy a little entertainment aren't gouged to a lower standard of living. Whether this means upping the poverty level or creating a bracket of income which it is assumed a person will spend their income entirely on life sustaining goods these should be taken into consideration.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:06 PM by solongandgoodnight

reply to post by ExPostFacto

A well thought out post, thanks. I appreciate when people add actual helpful input.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:10 PM by solongandgoodnight

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by solongandgoodnight

this is paving the way for a carbon emission tax that will charge you for every watt in your home, kilometer in your car, activity in your time off and anything else they can think of....oh and breathing since we emit carbon...

This is agenda 21 guy......

get us used to it like the big brother type surveillance necessary to make the whole thing possible.

You will have a system of points per citizen and once you consume them you pay through the roof for things like an hour of a TV running, or a PC on. An extra appliance, ect.

Generators will be illegal. Solar energy will be made WAY too expensive for you and me. Ect.

Why this system of carbon emissions?
for the speculative market it will create that can drive up debt for any selected people not given as many carbon points as the rest. Much worse than wall street and far worse than bail outs since this has absolutely no control or oversight.

A system of points a government assigns....can you imagine...who gets how many points and why. Who ever gets less ends up paying more, regardless of income.....and you are watched 24/7.....

edit on 8-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

Perhaps this is something to think about. Hopefully others will add their input.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:22 PM by TXTriker

From the way I read the article, it is only affecting income tax. It would not do away with social security or medicare "contributions". It would not do away with any form a state tax/fee.

Even given that, it would probably be better for a lot of people because it takes very little in income, comparatively speaking, to reach the 30% tax rate.

Is there any information or a draft of the bill anywhere that we can access?

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:22 PM by Bildo

reply to post by ~widowmaker~

As I've stated elsewhere, I took a copy of my recorded UCC-1 in to my employer, didn't say a friggin' word, and THEY declared ME tax exempt. They know what this document is. So does the IRS. It's just playing by their rules instead of fighting them. Getting into that over here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:26 PM by 0zzymand0s

The "flat-tax" is the most regressive tax idea ever, It is designed to keep those with little money in the thrall of those with lots.

As such, it will never pass. The House GOP are delusional.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:31 PM by Bildo

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

puting every American in debt...

I'd have to disagree. It's US citizens that are responsible for the debt. That's why they're called DEBTORS. Actual, for real Americans are the Creditors. Look up the US bankruptcy of 1933 and see where you sit. Who or what is the collateral for the debt?

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 07:35 PM by eLPresidente

Good!!! The IRS isn't a Constitutional entity anyways, neither is the Federal Reserve, both of which were installed in the same year by the same banking entities.

This should be a fundamental factoid for all ATS members.

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 08:57 PM by ~widowmaker~

reply to post by Bildo

cool i take a walk on over, see ya there ^^

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 08:58 PM by ~widowmaker~

reply to post by eLPresidente

"The IRS isn't a Constitutional entity anyways, neither is the Federal Reserve"

bingo, no one ever seems to remember this. it basically amounts to legal mafia. oh that and slave trading

your social security number makes you a bought for slave...... dwell on that people ^^

edit on 8-1-2013 by ~widowmaker~ because: ferrets

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 09:55 PM by MegaMind

Consumption tax only with a monthly rebate check to cover the cost of living - to protect the poor and middle class - is a great idea.

A flat tax is a very bad idea.

Someone making 100,000 a year can easily afford 15% or $15,000 because so much is left over to live on.

However, someone making $20,000 a year giving up 15% or $3000 means there is much less to live on.

Someone making $20,000 shouldn't be shouldered with the responsibility of paying the operating costs of government.

The Fair Tax really is a fair tax. It would encourage savings. Those that spend the most money pay the most money. If you're poor and save money to improve your circumstances then you pay no taxes. If you're rich and spend no money you also get to keep your money.

Basically you get to keep what you make and how much you make doesn't matter.

edit on 8-1-2013 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 8-1-2013 @ 10:10 PM by eLPresidente

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by eLPresidente

"The IRS isn't a Constitutional entity anyways, neither is the Federal Reserve"

bingo, no one ever seems to remember this. it basically amounts to legal mafia. oh that and slave trading

your social security number makes you a bought for slave...... dwell on that people ^^
edit on 8-1-2013 by ~widowmaker~ because: ferrets

I wonder if all of the, 'anti-globalists' on ATS realize this but for some reason still refuse to realize Obama/Dems, or the Republicans stand for the exact same B.S.

reply posted on 9-1-2013 @ 10:31 AM by wrkn4livn

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
The fairtax will never pass, even though it is exactly what we need. Get rid of all other taxes(at the federal level) and implement this system. No irs, no obama care tax, it can all be gone. It would be the biggest shift of power going toward the people and away from government since the articles of confederation after the American revolution. Our politicians will never allow it to pass.

How can we "vote" for this?

reply posted on 9-1-2013 @ 03:04 PM by Bildo

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by eLPresidente

"The IRS isn't a Constitutional entity anyways, neither is the Federal Reserve"

bingo, no one ever seems to remember this. it basically amounts to legal mafia. oh that and slave trading

your social security number makes you a bought for slave...... dwell on that people ^^
edit on 8-1-2013 by ~widowmaker~ because: ferrets

Which is why most people will never get it figured out. IRS Fed Res, etc, are all private corporations. United States is a corporation too, but everybody keeps on calling it a government, they also think it's a country. It hasn't been for over 100 YEARS.

reply posted on 9-1-2013 @ 03:32 PM by dogstar23

reply to post by solongandgoodnight

Making the government 100% dependent on consumption tax would absolutely destroy the middle class. The majority of the nation spends most of their money - the richer among us spend a much lower percentage of their money - after all, even if you're eating filet and lobster every night for dinner, you're not going to spend 1000x as much on food simply because you earn 1000x the average.

Put simply, moving to a consumption tax is how you go about transfering a greater share of the the tax burden to the poor and middle class.

Good things it would do - discourage consumption, encourage savings and investment. In exchange, the economy would collapse. The banking system would collapse as well, which is a good thing, outside of the screeching halt of the economy for decades.

The consumption tax (only) is great if you're a billionaire, or at least top 0.05% earner. Outside side of that, it would lead to rampant abject poverty, plagues, famines, revolutions, and just general all-around misery.

reply posted on 9-1-2013 @ 09:42 PM by poet1b

So when a corporation buys up a majority share in another corporation, how much tax will they pay?

Clearly this should raise short term capital gains taxes.

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