Saturn, Not Like Before.

reply to post by CaptChaos


I would think jupiter to be closer to a brown dwarf than any other body in our solar system. It's the largest " planet " by far, and still produces an enormous magnetic field, gives off heat, as well as various types of radiation. Has the largest and most "moons" of any solar system body. Saturn is beautiful and I've always had a fascination with it, but I sincerely doubt it ever was, or is a brown dwarf.

All the gassy giants are marvels, and wonderfully mysterious planets in our solar system.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Bedlam

 

or was it gravity?

Gravity all the way. Time doesn't figure into gravitational attraction, except in weird boundary conditions.

Originally posted by TRUELIES11
If you ask an honest scientist what gravity is, the answer is always, I do not know.

edit on 8-1-2013 by TRUELIES11 because: (no reason given)

According to relativity, gravity is the curvature of spacetime. I am unsure if that is the most commonly accepted theory though.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by CaptChaos

 

That's an huge claim and a very unreliable source.

The difference in mass between the Sun and Saturn sort of guarantee that you are wrong. Not to mention that Saturn is in no way able to have been a sun because then Titan would not be a hydro carbon paradise.

Oh it is a quite reliable source. Of course, you have to be able to wade through tons of source material, the product of over ten years of work.

This is not the only person who believes that Saturn used to be the Sun. EVERY ancient culture said so, for some reason. Also, strangely enough, in EVERY culture in the world, the planet Mars is the god of war, throwing thunderbolts, and the planet Venus is always female. Ever wonder why?

The Greeks called it the god "Helios". The Romans called it "Sol". These familiar figures have a long history, and the more one learns about their links to the earlier cultures, the more a mystery of origins comes into focus. Long before Greek and Roman times, the Egyptians worshipped the luminary Atum or Ra, just as the Sumerians honored Utu and the Babylonians the god Shamash. Astronomers and priests celebrated this light of heaven as the "Universal Monarch," the "father" of civilization and the celestial prototype of kings.

There is no mystery as to the present astronomical associations of these figures. But more archaic traditions, coming from many and diverse cultures, identify the great "sun" gods with the motionless center of heaven, the celestial pole. They speak of a primeval sun, an exemplary or "best" sun, ruling before the present sun. The god's station was the summit of the world axis, from which he ultimately fell in a heaven-altering catastrophe. Perhaps the best known story is the Greek account of Kronos, founder of the Golden Age, eventually driven from his seat at the top of the world by his son Zeus.

To what body did these strange traditions refer? Today we take for granted that the ancient words we translate as "helios" and "sol" originated as references to the Sun that illuminates our every day. In many languages the words for this axial figure did indeed become the words for the Sun. But the later identity could not obscure the more archaic idea--of a former, stationary light at the pole, whose every feature defies any identification with the Sun in our sky today.

As strange as it may seem, early astronomical traditions identify the "primeval sun" as the planet Saturn, the distant planet which the alchemists called the "best sun" and which the Babylonians, the founders of astronomy, identified as the exemplary light of heaven, the "sun"-god Shamash. ("Shamash is the planet Saturn", the astronomical texts say.) In archaic copies of Plato's Timaeus, the word for the planet Saturn is Helios, the "sun" god. Popular Greek traditions identified Saturn as Kronos, alter ego of Helios, and Kronos is said to have ruled "over the pole". But only a handful of scholars have bothered to trace the parallel referents in other cultures, or to address the unanswered questions.

www.thunderbolts.info...

mythopedia.info...

Originally posted by CaptChaos

This is not the only person who believes that Saturn used to be the Sun. EVERY ancient culture said so, for some reason. Also, strangely enough, in EVERY culture in the world, the planet Mars is the god of war, throwing thunderbolts, and the planet Venus is always female. Ever wonder why?

Cross cultural seeding FTW.

Same reason the Greek and Roman pantheon is so very similar. They fed into each other.

Also, saying "every" is an absolute. How can you know?

And, besides that, the OP, crazy as it may sound, could very well be RIGHT.

EVERYTHING that "everyone knows" has ALWAYS turned out to be wrong, through the history of the world. To think that we were always wrong before, but NOW we KNOW, is ridiculous.

There very well could be life forms that live on Saturn. Just because we cannot conceive of a life form that could live in superdense hydrogen and helium, does not mean they don't exist. All we "know" of Saturn is what we can SEE of the cloud tops of its violent atmosphere. They've found bizarre things living off methane and sulphur under enormous pressure at the bottom of our own oceans. Up until then, "science" said it was impossible.

I read a sci fi book once, can't remember the name, where they were mining the atmosphere of Jupiter for the hydrogen. They had huge floating ships skimming the hydrogen as they floated in it, at the surface. They had sent probes down into the interior to try to find a surface, but the probes never could survive all the pressure and wind.

Soooo, one genius has the idea they should shoot a nuke bomb down in there, just to see what happens. This is not that unlikely in the given scenario, this is a typical military response to everything: blow it up.

Within an hour, a strange ship suddenly appeared and blew the )$(*& out of them. Then strange ships kept appearing from the interior and destroying all the mining ships.

Finally they got a message from the, you know, NATIVES down there: Don't shoot nuke bombs at us. You are so alien to us that we don't even care what you are doing up there, we barely even notice you as alive. But when bombs fly, you will die. Give us one good reason why we shouldn't destroy your puny planet just for annoying us.

Wish I could remember the name of that book.

Ancient Chinese and Indian texts say Saturn was the Sun.

Ancient Mayan and Inca texts say the same thing.

Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian artifacts say the same thing.

These were way too far apart for any cross cultural seeding.

So maybe not "every" ancient culture. Just all the most ancient ones.

Earth was a planet of Saturn, within the plasma envelope. This made the entire sky bright all the time. There were no seasons, no night and day. Therefore, no TIME. This is what was known as the Golden Age or the Era of the Gods. Every culture has this story.

Think about it: every culture has a creation story, of course, but they all have remarkable similarities across the board. And how could these stories be known, if there had been no one there to witness it?

You should really read this, it's very long but it makes a very good case. The planets were not always in the same orbits they are now. Convinced me, anyway.

this post is entirely speculation by a person who clearly has not done much research, just looked at some pictures and came up with a crazy story like a child would do. no offense, but i thought this website was for at least marginally intelligent people.

There are solid scientific explanations for literally everything you speculated about.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
So maybe not "every" ancient culture. Just all the most ancient ones.

Especially if you sort of stretch the translations a smidge.

Also, the Egyptians probably seeded cultures over here.

Earth was a planet of Saturn, within the plasma envelope. This made the entire sky bright all the time. There were no seasons, no night and day. Therefore, no TIME. This is what was known as the Golden Age or the Era of the Gods. Every culture has this story.

Absolute bovine excrement. We are not and have never been a planet of Saturn. Good God. And no, if we were in the photosphere of a star, the Earth would be a burned out cinder, so that's wrong too. Night/day cycles do not regulate the flow of time, that's wrong too.

Most cultures have all sorts of stories. Most of them are myth, an attempt for primitives to reconcile what they observe with some sort of cause and effect.

Think about it: every culture has a creation story, of course, but they all have remarkable similarities across the board. And how could these stories be known, if there had been no one there to witness it?

Any creation story is about creation. That seems to be the similarity, and it's a tautology. Eschatology also tends to be about the end of the world, oddly enough. Look, another connection!

Sorry, I happen to have taken celestial mechanics. I can calculate orbits, although it's not the sort of thing I do a lot. And if you get information on planetary orbits from a non-physics based true believer book, it's not going to be...accurate.

Ah Saturn you certainly are a fascinating place. There is plenty of room for speculation about so much of you. I wont judge thee Saturn or those who gaze upon you in wonder for we should all know there are facts there beyond belief.

I don't want to feed the troll, but I have to jump in. I have actually laughed out loud- more than once - reading this thread. OK, I will play nice now.

In the name of staying on topic, based on sound scientific principles, I cannot buy into the theory presented by the OP. I do however suggest that people thoroughly research a topic or hypothesis before presenting here, otherwise you'll get...well, you see what you've got here

I am kind of intrigued by the grammatical structure of the OP....and I do wonder if the person speaks English as a second language.

Anyway, for the most part, this is kind of funny, and for all of the wrong reasons. I'm not trying to be an elitist jerk...I just haven't seen anyone post a thread with such a rudimentary grasp of scientific principles, and then defend their position so forcefully.

I will end with a positive notion; perhaps this would make a great sci-fi story if presented with a little legitimate science thrown behind the concept. Having a good imagination is a good trait, no matter what, and when you combine imagination with facts, then you're really cooking with GAS.

reply to post by CaptChaos


See what you quoted starts with truth, but there is no actual proof to his claim. That is, that they identified Saturn as the sun. That's his demand. But there is no evidence for this claim.

I'll give it to you simply dude. Every ancient culture's buildings were designed with the sun in mind. And the angles used, and forms devised, still work to this day.

Only thing is, they work for the sun. Not Saturn.

Originally posted by TRUELIES11
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

The planet is the result of people, which is what I am saying could be the case with Saturn.

kind of like my farts being the result of bacteria in my intestine's? wow people really must of have made saturn.
Maybe there are millions of people farting at the core of saturn thus saturn is a "gas" planet. You cant prove im wrong so i must be right!

typical thought of the severely mentally impared, but pretty much common place here.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
What? Have I just entered a different realm? The first reply confused me just as much as the OP.

Saturn is a gas giant, like Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune. They are comprised mainly of gases so there is no solid surface for artistic peoples to live.

Correction: Solid Cores at EACH of our gas giants.



Jupiter and Saturn are "Gas Giants," while Uranus and Neptune are "Ice Giants."

Read his super long treatise on the matter, then try to refute it. He has TONS of evidence.

Of course, you have to accept the premise that people in ancient times were not just insane and making up crazy stories for the hell of it. So, since the ancient texts were not "peer reviewed" you can't just brush them off.

Why would everyone assign such enormous importance to tiny dots in the sky? On all parts of the world? And how would they know that Saturn had rings, and how many moons both Saturn and Jupiter have?