MoD: Trident submarines cannot be moved from Scotland to Plymouth, page 2

reply to post by ANDERSON23

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I know that here in wales there has been discussion at the general assembly level on the possibilities of the nuclear submarine base coming to wales at some point in the future.
It has been mentioned in the press here a few times recently.
Personally, i hope it doesn't happen, wales is nuclear free and not worth targeting in a full scale nuclear war, i hope the welsh assembly has the good sense to realise that peace of mind will mean more to the majority of welsh people.
The discomfort and paranoia that comes with having a nuclear depot on your doorstep is not something we as a people want to live with.
I also like the way the english will station the nuclear arsenal anywhere but in their own living room, literally.

reply to post by The X

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I think that is a little unfair on the English. England has its fair share of Nuclear sites and ones much more dangerous than Faslane. For example Sellafield or the Nuclear Waste disposal plant in the carlisle area I think. Faslane has been a posative for Scotland in fact as it has brought many jobs and there has been no nuclear incidents to date.

reply to post by Soloprotocol

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There the UK government's to keep............so, legally, the tridents would ALL belong to the UK, an independent Scotland wouldn't get to keep them because they were paid for by the government in London.

reply to post by ANDERSON23

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What sane leader of Scotland wouldn't get rid of the subs. Looking at it from their side, makes no sense to have them there. Talk a bout a target on your back.

reply to post by chrisbobson

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It is a moot point anyway, for as much as the Scottish like to be patriotic and for as much as the Scottish like the Romance of being truely independant from the politicians in London. There is enough well educated Scottish folk to realise that this would be a terrible move for Scotland and its economy. There is no way the Scottish people will vote themselves out of the UK, it would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas. At the end of the day Alex Salmond is just an extremist politician praying on the patriotism of the Scottish people. We are stronger United and we will stay United. I wonder if Salmond will tell the people of Scotland the truth and that is that they will have to start paying for prescriptions and tuition fees if they go independant? As well as many other aspects they will no longer be able to afford anymore.

Originally posted by The X
reply to post by ANDERSON23

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I know that here in wales there has been discussion at the general assembly level on the possibilities of the nuclear submarine base coming to wales at some point in the future.
It has been mentioned in the press here a few times recently.
Personally, i hope it doesn't happen, wales is nuclear free and not worth targeting in a full scale nuclear war, i hope the welsh assembly has the good sense to realise that peace of mind will mean more to the majority of welsh people.
The discomfort and paranoia that comes with having a nuclear depot on your doorstep is not something we as a people want to live with.
I also like the way the english will station the nuclear arsenal anywhere but in their own living room, literally.

I don't think its as simple as that, if or when checks are carried out and locations are deemed safe it wont be just the prospect of a nuclear depot in the area, but all the jobs, money etc that will be brought to the area. If its safe it will be hard for anyone to turn down... £££.

The problem with much of the locations in the English borders is the Overpopulation.

Originally posted by chrisbobson
reply to post by ANDERSON23

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What sane leader of Scotland wouldn't get rid of the subs. Looking at it from their side, makes no sense to have them there. Talk a bout a target on your back.

Your not looking at the bigger picture... what sane leader would get rid of them, nuclear deterrent located in your country without having to pay for them, massive bargaining power gained from allowing someone else's deterrent in your country, one of the few locations in the world with a very specific skill base on the employment front, huge amount of jobs, £££'s, and "rent" for allowing such a base.

The bargaining power and political clout alone is reason enough to keep them. But that wont happen, if Scotland went independent they would be moved.

But as michael1983l stated, its extremely unlikely.

reply to post by tdk84

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I'd just like to chime in here regarding oil. I work in Aberdeen and its probably the only place in the UK thathasnt been affected by the recession, and i mean hasnt. There is so much money in this city its crazy.

A recent study by the University of Aberdeen has found that there is more oil still in the ground than has been removed in total in Scottish Waters. The oil inductry isnt going away for a long time. If it were, Taqa and otther major players wouldnt be investing more and more in Aberdeen and the North Sea.

Regards the debt, a simple solution would be to take the proportion and repay it at the bare minimum allowed, if that takes 10,000,000 years to pay it back, then well, who cares?

Scotland will get my vote depending on 2 crucial factors...these must be NO answers.

1. Joining the EU - Must be NO
2. Joining the Euro - Must be NO

I enjoy being part of the UK but i also want a shot at being independant, i hate the UK's foreign policy on "terror" and other religions (which is what its all about), and i hate the fact that we have Nuclear weapons.

I'm not so sure Scotland will get a majority Yes vote if we are to join Europe, its a sinking ship, whats the point in changing the sinking ship, Europe or the UK...they will both sink eventually.

Originally posted by jrmcleod
reply to post by tdk84

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I'd just like to chime in here regarding oil. I work in Aberdeen and its probably the only place in the UK thathasnt been affected by the recession, and i mean hasnt. There is so much money in this city its crazy.

A recent study by the University of Aberdeen has found that there is more oil still in the ground than has been removed in total in Scottish Waters. The oil inductry isnt going away for a long time. If it were, Taqa and otther major players wouldnt be investing more and more in Aberdeen and the North Sea.

Sure, lots of money but its a dwindling resource. They state oil and gas production are currently falling fast - 17% last year alone. I'd assume to counter this argument though that the price of oil has been souring so I guess in the short term things will be balanced.

The question is, is there enough oil to pay debt (81 billion), get the economy going again, cover current expenditures, and finally fund expensive economical infrastructure changes & planning. Risky business keeping your eggs in one basket.

Regards the debt, a simple solution would be to take the proportion and repay it at the bare minimum allowed, if that takes 10,000,000 years to pay it back, then well, who cares?

Interesting idea but say bye bye to AAA ratings. We currently enjoy exceptionally low bond yields. That wont happen for an independent Scotland especially one so dependent on dwindling Black Gold.

That also gives an interesting point to debt... Scotland's proportional 81 billion debt will sky rocket with high loan yields due to different credit ratings.

Scotland will get my vote depending on 2 crucial factors...these must be NO answers.

1. Joining the EU - Must be NO
2. Joining the Euro - Must be NO

You might not have a choice, its highly likely Scotland would have to apply as a new accession state, which means you will get your choice. Mr Salmond thinks differently, but then he got busted with his "enquiries".

Remember there is a lot of funding you could get from joining the EU, but then with the state of the E.U at the moment I guess it would be a while before they start letting in risky new states as they have done before. Now biting them in the ass.

Not joining the Euro, would mean another massive cost to produce your own. They talked about staying in the sterling... not sure how that would work or if it could even happen.

I enjoy being part of the UK but i also want a shot at being independant, i hate the UK's foreign policy on "terror" and other religions (which is what its all about), and i hate the fact that we have Nuclear weapons.

I'm not so sure Scotland will get a majority Yes vote if we are to join Europe, its a sinking ship, whats the point in changing the sinking ship, Europe or the UK...they will both sink eventually.

You think Scotlands Foreign Policy will be any different? It all comes down to Money and clyde for one has the potential to brings lots.

Even with an independent Scotland you will expect heavy military relations, especially considering the lack of armed forces to begin with. You will have Scottish regiments like we still have Irish ones.

As mentioned before Scotland is too close to the rest of the UK to be allowed to fail, an independent Scotland will receive help and I guarantee one of those will be from the MOD. That will lead to certain expectations.

Too much money has be plowed in by Europe and other countries to let it fail now. Expect massive reforms.

Originally posted by Antonio1
reply to post by Soloprotocol

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There the UK government's to keep............so, legally, the tridents would ALL belong to the UK, an independent Scotland wouldn't get to keep them because they were paid for by the government in London.

Payed for by the British Tax payer, that includes Scottish Tax payers.....
Why should Scotland be the main Target for Russia and China and any other nation with IBM's...we've lived with it long enough.

The truth is..England doesn't have the natural bays, deep water inlets and mountains to store these WMD's so i think we will end up keeping them and renting out the likes of Faslane and the Holy Loch for the foreseeable future...

Just for the record...if London says well give you x and x amount of pounds and we say not enough....America will be in there upping the bid for us to keep these WMD on our shores..

Originally posted by Soloprotocol

Originally posted by Antonio1
reply to post by Soloprotocol

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There the UK government's to keep............so, legally, the tridents would ALL belong to the UK, an independent Scotland wouldn't get to keep them because they were paid for by the government in London.

Payed for by the British Tax payer, that includes Scottish Tax payers.....
Why should Scotland be the main Target for Russia and China and any other nation with IBM's...we've lived with it long enough.

The truth is..England doesn't have the natural bays, deep water inlets and mountains to store these WMD's so i think we will end up keeping them and renting out the likes of Faslane and the Holy Loch for the foreseeable future...

Just for the record...if London says well give you x and x amount of pounds and we say not enough....America will be in there upping the bid for us to keep these WMD on our shores..

edit on 9-1-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

Exactly... not sure if America would jump on them/sold to them but big money and political deals will be made to keep them there.

reply to post by Soloprotocol

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Scotland, if it seceded from the UK, shouldn't be a target for Chinese or Russian nukes. And they wouldn't be, because if Scotland does leave the UK, those trident subs would have to be moved to Wales, or England. My point is that those subs are Property of the British government, Scotland has no claim to them. Even though part of the cost was probably payed by the Scottish taxpayer, most of the cost was payed by English, North Irish, and Welsh taxpayers.

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