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Muslims and Islam...............

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posted on May, 6 2003 @ 08:51 AM
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I was just wondering if any one would care to enlighten me on some of the beliefs of this Religion.......................Why do they think or believe that there will be Virgins awaiting them in heaven? Why do think that killing or suicide attacks are something that God would want them to do to someone especially since innocent children and or people who have never done a thing to harm a soul could be killed in such sensless attacks? Why do they not belive that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he was just a special person? And or if they believe he was here and did do miracles such as heal, raise the dead and such.......what other being other than the son of God could do such things?...........................................................................I would appriciate any serious replys to these questions and dont mean to offend anyone. Im just looking for some answers. Thanks .......................Believer




posted on May, 6 2003 @ 09:17 AM
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First of all, you're confusing the fundamentalists with the other Muslims.

Islam has a number of sects and they differ as widely as The First Cornerstone Church of Righteousness and the Unitarians. Just as beliefs held by the Mormons (a Christian sect) may not be the same ones held by the Baptists (another Christian sect), some of the beliefs you're talking about are not held by most Musilms.

Just as some Christians believe that some of the Bible is Jewish legends and history (which resolves the question of God's injustices) and some of it is inspirational and should not be taken literall -- even so, not all the Muslims believe you should run off and kill every non-Muslim or that there's a gazillion virgins waiting for them in heaven.

The BEST place to start when you ask about any religion is ReligiousTolerance.org. They present fairly unbiased definitions of the world's major religions in a clear and understandable format.

Here's the link to their section on Islam:
www.religioustolerance.org...


And the only religion that believes Jesus is the son of God is Christianity. Jews don't believe he was the Messiah.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 09:35 AM
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Thanks for the link, Id never have found it if I didnt ask. Your right i have them all confused and need to learn more about them, wich is why I asked . Thanks again for the link..............................................Believer



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 09:59 AM
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The more radical Muslims (a minority, not the majority), believe that the Jihad (which means struggle), is a fight to purge the world of infidels (non-believers). Jihad is a duty of Muslims...however, most muslims believe that this struggle is to convert infidels, not slaughter them. To die in the service of Allah, and while on a Jihad, it is said that paradise awaits, the virgins, etc.

They believe that Jesus was a prophet, not the son of God, and he is widely respected by most muslims. At least you are making an effort to learn about Islam, before attacking it. I myself am of no particular religion, but I find all of them interesting, and I believe in learning about others' religions before criticizing them. It's nice to see that from believers as well...



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by believerinchrist
I was just wondering if any one would care to enlighten me on some of the beliefs of this Religion.......................Why do they think or believe that there will be Virgins awaiting them in heaven?


Mostly because they take on multiple wives, and what could be better a gift, than a virgin wife? Let alone multiple!



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by another_one

Originally posted by believerinchrist
I was just wondering if any one would care to enlighten me on some of the beliefs of this Religion.......................


I'll be glad to. Islam means "submission to God", and it is the second largest religion in the world, and growing fast. We believe that there is ONE God, most merciful, oftforgiving, almighty, great, and loving.

"Allah" does not mean something other than GOD, it is the arabic word for GOD, just as if you read an arabic christian Bible.

Our "Holy Book" is the Qur'an, which is split up into chapters, also called Suras. Each chapter technically has a topic of it's own but in the end everything is connected.

Islam teaches RESPECT, GOOD MANNERS, LOVE, HARMONY, CONSIDERATION, TOLERANCE, AND PEACE.

It has NOTHING to do with violence or terrorism, and any action that is terroristic or violent is against the teachings of Islam.

We believe that the last messenger of God, was Muhammed (peace be upon him), an illiterate man who received the word of God (The Qur'an), through the angel Gabriel. It (The Qur'an) is still being studied for the scientific facts in it, the wonderful knowledge, and the beautiful and perfect arabic it was written in. Original copies still exist in museums.

Muslims should pray 5 times a day, help the needy, perform Good deeds, believe in GOD and the LAST DAY (day of judgment), and if possible, make a pilgrimage to Mecca (Muhammed's birthplace) once in their life time - if they're able to, both financially and health-wise.


Why do they think or believe that there will be Virgins awaiting them in heaven?


We believe that Paradise is a state of delight, with complete happiness, satisfaction, and enlightenment.

A state of existence with maximum amount of pleasure in everything.

Food, nature, sex, music, whatever you can think of basically.


Why do think that killing or suicide attacks are something that God would want them to do to someone especially since innocent children and or people who have never done a thing to harm a soul could be killed in such sensless attacks?


Killing unbelievers or innocent human beings is completely against the teachings of the Islamic Book, our Qur'an.

If you would like me to post verses and explain this and that, I will be happy to do so.



Why do they not belive that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he was just a special person?


We are all God's children.

Jesus (peace be upon him) was a great and loving messenger of God, who performed many miracles, healed people, made the blind see, and even raised the dead.


And or if they believe he was here and did do miracles such as heal, raise the dead and such.......what other being other than the son of God could do such things?...........................................................................


LOL, you might not be aware, but Jesus' miracles are NOT UNIQUE in the Bible. There was even a case when someone raised a whole city from the dead (Ezekiel I think).

If you want more info on that, I'll try to provide it.



I would appriciate any serious replys to these questions and dont mean to offend anyone. Im just looking for some answers. Thanks .......................Believer


No offense, but these questions of yours were asked at least 10x on this board, for example, these topics ->>

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Basically all cover your questions.

Believer, whoever is feeding you that suicide and terrorism crap, they can talk to me if they want - even though they are not worth debating.

Islam is LOVE, HARMONY, TOLERANCE, AND PEACE.

I confess in the name of GOD Almighty and submit myself to him. GOD is Great.

For some good websites on Islam:

www.viewislam.com...
www.thetruereligion.org...
www.islam-qa.com...
www.thereligioustruth.com...
www.it-is-truth.org...

Illuminati, maybe you can explain some things to him better than I did.

Peace.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR

Originally posted by believerinchrist
I was just wondering if any one would care to enlighten me on some of the beliefs of this Religion.......................Why do they think or believe that there will be Virgins awaiting them in heaven?


Mostly because they take on multiple wives, and what could be better a gift, than a virgin wife? Let alone multiple!


Many wives are allowed in Islam, but it is not forced upon Muslims.

" .. marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice." - The Qur'an 4:3

Advisor, can your hardcore anti-muslim attitude open the Bible and tell me how many of your biblical "holy" people had over HUNDREDS of concubines and wives?

lol

Peace



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 03:38 PM
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Abraham (or Father Abraham) had many wives. In fact, this has been an underlying cause of the trouble in the middle east. God promised the land to Abraham's seed. Well, Isaac (from whom Christians and Jews descend), and Ishmael (from whom the Arabs descend) are both sons of Abraham, though from different wives...so who does it go to? If I remember correctly, the rule in Saudi, was that you had to buy each wife her own house...and this pretty much kept the number of wives in check. Of course, King Saud, the founder of Saudi Arabia had a ton of wives, and over 200 children, hehe.... Can you imagine Christmas and Birthdays? Geez!



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 03:49 PM
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I'd like to know where the virgins come from?

Are they girls who died before getting married?
In that case are they in hell with a bunch of lecherous old men?


VzH

posted on May, 6 2003 @ 03:57 PM
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The more radical Muslims (a minority, not the majority), believe that the Jihad (which means struggle), is a fight to purge the world of infidels (non-believers). Jihad is a duty of Muslims...however, most muslims believe that this struggle is to convert infidels, not slaughter them. To die in the service of Allah, and while on a Jihad, it is said that paradise awaits, the virgins, etc.


Not exactly true.

The word Jihad (from the Arabic root Ga-Ha-Da) is a verbal noun meaning exerting an effort, expounding an energy, striving, working to improve, struggling, doing ones best.

---
For political and historical reasons, the word Jihad in the West connote violence. It is most often translated into English not only as a holy war, but also a war waged against non-Muslims, a kind of Crusade in reverse.

Today in the West the term Jihad leads people to believe that Muslims are supposedly encouraged to take up arms in order to impose their faith by force, annihilating those who reject it.

This is contrary to the Islamic teachings for the muslims that it is not for man but for God alone to judge and punish disbelief and that compulsion in religious matters is formally forbidden. It is regrettable that in Western public opinion, Jihad seems to have retained only the misleading meaning of holy war.

---
However some Muslims must bear responsibility for the bad name given to Jihad. Today some contemporary governments and groups in Muslim countries make reference to Jihad only in its military meaning, through words and deeds, in order to hide their moral, social and political bankruptcy. In the process they kill the innocent, cause only death and destruction and do not advance the cause of peace and justice. But regrettably they are the ones who show up regularly in the newspapers and on television.

---
In fact, Jihad in Islam is waging peace and justice. Jihad is a war against unjust, oppression, exploitation, tyranny, fear, corruption and denying the masses basic human rights. One of the most important objectives of Jihad in Islam is to stand for those who are oppressed.

Jihad in Islam is not meant for domination, and not to achieve personal, territorial and/or economical gains and not to exercise power and control. Any type of aggression would make Jihad null and void.
It is impossible for Jihad to be performed by an oppressor, a tyrant, a transgressor or an exploiter; it does not matter what that person/government/group calls his/her/its actions. Nor there is Jihad for those who are seeking after personnal, tribal and national gains.

Jihad was and still being invoked in Muslim protests against foreign occupation, oppression and exploitation during colonialism, post-colonialism, and neocolonialism(Afghanistan, Iraq.........), a cause perceived as both just and
necessary.



[Edited on 6-5-2003 by VzH]



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
I'd like to know where the virgins come from?

Are they girls who died before getting married?
In that case are they in hell with a bunch of lecherous old men?


"In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched." - The Qur'an 55:56

"Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the heart's) desires; Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; companions of equal age; and a cup full (to the brim). No vanity shall they hear therein, nor Untruth." - The Qur'an 78:31-35

The "virgins" are you like to call them are not human nor does it have any connection with a life. It's a part of pleasure of paradise.

Tell me, is God a pervert for creating sexual pleasure?

The Qur'an has no perverse sexual stories, but let's look at the Bible.

"A loving doe, a graceful deer, may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love." - Proverbs 5:19

"If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house - she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink, the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me." - Song of Songs 8:1-3

"While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, 'Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.' The owner of the house went outside and said to them, 'No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing.' But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Get up; let's go.' But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home. When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel." - Judges 19:22-29



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 06:26 PM
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Dear me I forgot how virtuous and pure Islamic religion is.

Thats why in Nigeria an islamic woman was going to be stoned to death for having a baby after being raped. Because she technically had sex out of wedlock.

Or another news report of the woman who was raped by the villagers because she was seen with a boy from another village.

Or this by god fearing muslims.
worldnetdaily.com...
.
Each year, dozens and probably hundreds of brutal "honor killings" of Palestinian women and girls most of whom are virtually blameless go unreported, according to an anthropologist's recent study.

In a story for World and I magazine, James Emery says women in the communities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Israel and Jordan are killed by male kinsmen in an attempt to protect the reputations of their families.

Emery says the women "are murdered in their homes, in open fields, and occasionally in public, sometimes before crowds of cheering onlookers."

Most occur among Muslims in poor, rural tribal areas or among uneducated urban dwellers, he says, although the practice is not explicitly condoned by the Islamic holy book, the Quran

-----------------
or this from the same article

Emery has done extensive research in Palestinian communities and has lived and traveled overseas for a number of years. He is an expert witness on Asian and Arab culture in civil and criminal cases and a lecturer on Middle Eastern terrorism.

He says the murder of females in the Middle East is an ancient tradition that began prior to the arrival of Islam in A.D. 622. Arabs sometimes buried infant daughters to avoid the possibility they would later bring shame to the family, Emery notes.

----------------------
Gee guess the terrible christians really have problems with "stories" from the Old Testamant, which I thought was also read by Muslims. Pity the saintly muslims don't have the same concern for their woman now.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 06:39 PM
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"Dear me I forgot how virtuous and pure Islamic religion is."

best use of sarcasm on the board yet.
exactly netchicken.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
Dear me I forgot how virtuous and pure Islamic religion is.


To be fair, much of what you describe happened in Christian-dominated countries not much more than 150 years ago. (Salem witch trials anyone?) Many of the cultures you describe are not that much more sophisticated than colonial U.S., and certainly, Islam is not as mature (in age) as Christianity.

Pointing fingers does not lead to understanding.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by krossfyter
"Dear me I forgot how virtuous and pure Islamic religion is."

best use of sarcasm on the board yet.
exactly netchicken.





Yup, and I'm sure if it was regarding Christianity, your thumbs wouldn't be up.


Peace.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 08:30 PM
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Netchicken,

The violent acts you listed are completely , positively , and absolutely *****AGAINST***** the teachings of Islam.

I've already told you this, but since you keep making the same mistake in judging a religion based on actions against the teachings of it, I concluded that you might have a learning disability, and will probably not debate with you lol.

I confess in the name of GOD Almighty.

La Ilaha IlAllah Muhammedun RasulAllah.

Allahhu Akbar.

Ameen.

Peace.



posted on May, 6 2003 @ 08:34 PM
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Since you brought up stoning and killing, I thought I would contribute something from our favorite "Holy Book", the Bible


"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her." - Mark 10:11

"And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." - Mark 10:12

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." - Matthew 19:9

"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." - Luke 16:18

"If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." - Deuteronomy 22:22

"But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." - Proverbs 6:32

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife; with the wife of his neighbor; both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." - Leviticus 20:10

"If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal." Leviticus 20:15

"If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death." - Leviticus 20:16


"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." - Hosea 13:16

"Then he said to them, 'This is what the LORD , the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'" - Exodus 32:27



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 01:54 AM
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Thanks for the comments guys, i do have a little better understanding of the Islamic Religion now , I think. I would never bash a religion before I had achance to check it out. To Another One ,,, I posted this question on the board to be better educated and to get some specific questions answered for myself. I know you have seen how many posts are on this board and with the job and family that I have ,there is no way I could go through and find out about what I want to know about due to my limited time to get on the pc. If you dont want to answer a post, dont. Please dont get on me for asking questions, I get enough griping from my wife.And remember. there is no other way to get to the father except through Jesus, for that way is provided, but it is up to you to travel that way.If you do chose to travel that way and for some reason you fall, do not worry for Jesus shall carry you if your load becomes to heavy................................................................................................................................................. ........................By the way...One more question for the Islamists...If Jesus was just a prophet,How is he going to come back and fight the anti-christ? And if Mohammad was a prophet and Jesus was a prophet, why was Jesus sinless and Mohammad not?......................................Thjanks again for the insight.............Bless you all in the name of Jesus....................Believer



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:40 AM
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Another-one, you seem to know the Bible well,

Throwing Bible verses here and there!
Tell me, do you know the meanings of those verses???
Who interprets them for you ???
The language spoken of that time plays a major role......

The verses that you quoted/// are mainly from the old Testament.......but , that's ok..............

Christianity follows the New Testament.......New Lamb......Jesus Christ came to fix the problems of the people .......For they Did as they pleased without the Love for God......they pleasured themselves and forgot God..............In the beginning was the ''WORD''' that''' WORD''' '''Logos'''''.Is GOD.............that came in the flesh to do away with the sins of the many people that went away from Him........He is the Sacrificial Lamb......
He was, and is one God as of The Beginning.........
He came as was predicted by many prophets of the Old Testament.........He was born of the Virgin Mary (as i am quite sure the Quran agrees with that) ..........He was prophecied and He did come in the flesh.........

Quote//Another-one.... Since you brought up stoning and killing, I thought I would contribute something from our favorite "Holy Book", the Bible
unquote////


'''Samaria shall become desolate;for she hath rebelled against her God :they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces , and their women with child shall be ripped up..(Hosea 13:16 )

God speaks of the ''Horrors of War'' that we befall them............
For Creation was not meant to be like the people made it....for pleasures of themselves without God.........

///Solomon exorts to study wisdom/////....

''''19///Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let ....................etc//
'''''20///And why wilt thou , my son , be ravished with a strange women , and embraced the bosom of a stranger ?

Proverbs 5 :19......speaks about the love of husband and wife............
Proverbs 5:20.......speaks of Chastity......and Impurity......



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by another_one

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Originally posted by believerinchrist
I was just wondering if any one would care to enlighten me on some of the beliefs of this Religion.......................Why do they think or believe that there will be Virgins awaiting them in heaven?


Mostly because they take on multiple wives, and what could be better a gift, than a virgin wife? Let alone multiple!


Many wives are allowed in Islam, but it is not forced upon Muslims.

" .. marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice." - The Qur'an 4:3

Advisor, can your hardcore anti-muslim attitude open the Bible and tell me how many of your biblical "holy" people had over HUNDREDS of concubines and wives?

lol

Peace


You lost me, where have I ever displayed an"anti-muslim" attitude?

Who exactly do you "assume" are my people?

I don't believe I have ever displayed my family background here on ATS. You like to shoot from the lip, I recommend caution. And just for refurence, do a surname search for "Du Boisgarde" if you like history read up on the Conquest of Rollo, my Grandfather(really great) was VidarVarde. But I doubt you have any idea as to the origin of your lastname.

Three reasons for speaking, come what may: for instruction against ignorance, counsel against strife, and truth against harmful falsehood.

Three reasons for keeping silent: against saying the thing one ought not, against speaking in the way one ought not, and against speaking in the place one ought not.



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