Remnants of a Lost World: Ancient Atlantic Mariners - Navigation

Originally posted by junebizug
Great Topic,

The new America Unearthed on H2 has some pretty compelling evidence that the Minoans mined the Great Lakes area for a billion pounds of copper that was used in Bronze Age Europe.


Quick summary:

thousands of ancient copper mines in the area
carbon dated to 5000 years ago
The Newberry tablet with Minoan text found before Minoan civilization was discovered
the purity of the copper matches the purity from Minoan shipwreck
not enough sources of copper in Europe

You can watch it here for now but not sure how long they will keep it up for free.

Howdy

Sorry I have to respond.

No basically. The Minoans and most the Eastern Med used Cypriote, Cretan and copper from the Laurion region of Attica plus other sources. There was no need to seek it elsewhere - figure if you would how long it would take a ship of that era to get to that part of N. America and return serious figure out how long it would take them - then the over land march, the portages and other aspects of such a journey...then compare that to getting a plentiful supply from Cyprus and other points around the Med.

Such a round trip journey would be around 18,000 kilometers

Much of the stuff about North American copper was made up by a gentleman called Coppens

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Howdy Slayer why don't you do a thread on N. American copper too!

Good thread...but ..really bringing up Piri Reis as something mysterious? The 'coc aine' mummies again? Can we not put some of the old debunked stuff away and speculate on other items?

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
...it seems we take one step forward then slip two steps back..

This is NOT by accident...

History is used as a MASSIVE form of mind control just like religion, education, media and everything else.

The art of propaganda through falsification of history has been around for most of recorded history.

"The falsification of history has done more to impede human development than any one thing known to mankind" - Rousseau

“the biggest cover-up in the history of mankind is the history of mankind itself”

“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac

"The model of human prehistory built-up by scholars over the past two centuries is sadly and completely wrong, and a deliberate tool of disinformation and mind control. ...they demonstrate a systematic destruction of proofs that show another reality than that the official story. Falsifications and even destruction of such proofs has been common for more than two hundred years." LINK

"Throughout recorded history, the Illuminati has successfully withheld from humankind major aspects of history and science in order to subjugate the masses"

Secrets of Suppressed Science and History

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Something else someone may want to consider, if he were so inclined, would be linguistic similarities between Ancient Egyptians and Native North American Indians. Specifically from the area of Louisiana. Man, this rabbit hole goes DEEP. I think someone can make a VERY strong case for Ancient Egyptian presence in North America, coming from both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

This reply jogged my memory & caused me to dig out Barry Fell's excellent America B.C. (Demeter Press, 1976). Below is a chart from that work, showing the similarities between some words in the (Native) North American Micmac language & Ancient Egyptian:



As the accompanying text states, these words don't have any representation by natural objects (wavy lines for water, triangular shapes for mountains, etc), so any similarity appears to be significant in suggesting some contact in the distant past.

Great topic! I went on a tour in Bolivia and Peru in 2011. Our guide swore that papyrus scrolls and the remnants of ships were found well up the amazon river and that there was trade between the civilisation based around Lake Titicaca. I found it hard to believe, but he was adament. The tour guide is based in the town of Iguazu(brazilian/argentinian border) near the Iguazu falls. His office was based on the mainstreet there. He was a man in his sixties with a moustache with good english. He swears by this and he probably can be tracked down should you wish to have him recite his account.

over and out,

W

Originally posted by JayinAR
Man, this rabbit hole goes DEEP. I think someone can make a VERY strong case for Ancient Egyptian presence in North America, coming from both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

Agree with Jay on this, this has been buried very DEEP because it all points to the truth.

I am very hesitant to agree with ANYTHING David Icke says but he may actually be right in this case:

"The Phoenicians were not confined to the Mediterranean and the Middle East. They landed in Britain around 3,000 BC and unmistakable Phoenician artifacts have been found in Brazil, as well as possible Egyptian remains in the Grand Canyon in America.

The Phoenicians landed in the Americas thousands of years before the manufactured ‘photo opportunity’ better known as the journey of Christopher Columbus. The reason that the native legends of the Americas speak of tall ‘white gods’ coming from the sea bringing advanced knowledge is because that is precisely what happened, if you forget the gods bit. "

"...to understand what has happened in the United States we have to go back a very long time.
The Phoenicians landed there in ancient times and what appeared to be Egyptian (Phoenician) or Oriental remains were found in the Grand Canyon in the early years of this century, although the knowledge of this has been suppressed.

The naming of the US city of Phoenix in the Valley of the Sun in Arizona was inspired by an understanding of the true history of that area, no matter what the official version may wish us to believe. There is evidence that the Welsh,Irish, English and Scots landed in North America many centuries before Columbus. The official story that Christopher Columbus discovered the Americas is ludicrous. "

The Biggest Secret
bibliotecapleyades.lege.net...

Originally posted by jonSUN
I read many articles about this. It can explain why alot of the parts of the Grand Canyon have Egyptian names. Poring over the map, we were amazed to see that much of the area on the north side of the canyon has Egyptian names. The area around Ninety-four Mile Creek and Trinity Creek had areas (rock formations, apparently) with names like Tower of Set, Tower of Ra, Horus Temple, Osiris Temple, and Isis Temple.

Lost City of the Grand Canyon

"Perhaps the most amazing suppression of all is the excavation of an Egyptian tomb by the Smithsonian itself in Arizona. A lengthy front page story of the PHOENIX GAZETTE on 5 April 1909, gave a highly detailed report of the discovery and excavation of a rock-cut vault by an expedition led by a Professor S.A. Jordan of the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian, however, claims to have absolutely no knowledge of the discovery or its discoverers.

While it cannot be discounted that the entire story is an elaborate newspaper hoax, the fact that it was on the front page, named the prestigious Smithsonian Institution, and gave a highly detailed story that went on for several pages, lends a great deal to its credibility.

"They deny any knowledge of it..."

Cover Ups at the Smithsonian

"Egyptian Mummies were found in the Grand Canyon and taken to the National Museum in Washington URL

while doing what i do at work i happened to speak to an Egyptian archeologist today and happened to ask her what she thought the actual age of the pyramids are. I laughed internally when she said its about 2k give or take a century. I then asked her about the water erosion at the base of the Sphinx but she had nothing for that and just said yeah thats what crazy people think. hahah so called scientists that dont use science.

reply to post by BuzzCory


Thanks for that. That is the info I had in mind. Unfortunately I am using my mobile to access ATS at the moment and surfing for info is a little more difficult. Not to mention embedding pics. Haha

Hey Slayer, Great thread, par for the course, as usual. Since we're on the subject of ancient Atlantic sailors, have you heard about the two Native Americans that landed on the coast of Holland in 60 BC? Here's the article from cracked.com

6 Rediculous Lies You Believe About the Founding of America Pg2

Of course you won't want to overlook page one either, but Pg 2 is where it mentions what I'm talking about. Here's a Link to their source material for the information.


That just astounds me. And It's awesome, because it seems these two Natives (with balls the size of grapefruits apparently) sailed the Atlantic in a canoe of all things.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hey Slayer, another rubbish thread i see!

God i love this subject. I would just add that the Phoenicians traded tin with Britain. In the past, the belief was that this direct trade (eminently possible) although newer thinking is along the lines of indirect trade via the Venutii Tribe in Brittany. Either way, this means navigating the Bay of Biscay. If they had ships capable of dealing with the sort of storms that can arise in the Bay of Biscay then they certainly could cope with, for example, a trans-Atlantic crossing. I am not saying this definitely happened but i am categorically stating that a ship that could survive a Biscay storm could survive an Atlantic storm.

As an aside, some of the older ships they are now recovering from sea beds (Neolithic) show much more in common (design wise) with Viking long ships than with Roman Galleys or Medieval Pinnaces and Caravels. We know what the Vikings could do in their ships - why not their distant relatives in the far past?

reply to post by SLAYER69


SLAYER69, when 1 begins to think of elder times of past navigation and how many may have taken the risk to go out into far open ocean. It seems logical that if there where some ice structures present further up north that would of connected across long distances some would of attempted to follow these structures across the more wider open ocean zones. For food resources as well as clothing. -Passing Greenland- Odin(s) This could of also been done in South America to the Antarctic region across to Southern Africa to Australia. This is also highly speculative but when viewing more logical less risky routs 1 would think to follow the Ice walls as much as possible until you could see land afar. With that Atlantis or the learning center related to it 1 still feels is umm relevant, somehow today but I wont go to far out of the box with that as of now. But do feel its technology is important..

Also Thuban and other polar star(s) thru time could of very well assisted where some tools were not able too...
NAMASTE*******

Should we even bother to re write history books? Until we figure out every piece of the puzzle from our past, we cannot conclude on anything?

S&F ofcourse

reply to post by BuzzCory


Fell also has stated that the Egyptian language bears resemblance to those spoken by the Atakapa and Tunic a peoples of the Louisiana area.
Those languages have no verified root, but do seem to hold similarities to Egyptian language. I'll do some more digging after work, but the very word Tunica is thought to be Semetic in root. Possibly Aramaic.

Great thread, I don't have much to add except that I do believe ancient cultures got a lot further then we assume and that the evidence is very scare or maybe even destroyed for the most part. That imo is why we have not found more evidence but it all seems to tie in and make sense when you look at how humans are and the things we do.

I guess we will only ever speculate.

For anyone that may be interested in looking at the possible linguistic link between the Ancient Egyptians and the New World cultures, I found this site...it's a bit weird looking, but they have some neat info. I downloaded a fascinating linguistic analysis of Mayan and Egyptian glyph languages, but I can't link it for some reason. Anyhow, its somewhere on this site, and it would appear that even those two languages have lots of linguistic similarities.

www.earthmatrix.com...

Interesting thread. S&F. Makes one wonder just how far the ancients travelled and possibly thrived. Possibly yet another reason why there is a lot of commonality in several civilizations scattered across the globe.

reply to post by AussieAmandaC


Nope...
I was incorrect, it is 7 notes and 14 in total including the higher octave which is achieved by blowing a more refined stream of air, more forcefully.

Today we rely on technology and find it hard to fathom how people could accomplish certain feats without some form of advanced Technology.

The fact is knowledge of the stars and planets, weather, currents, temperatures and winds provide more than enough information to navigate without aid of advanced tech. There were accomplished Navigators able to guide their ships across oceans with nothing more than basic knowledge of their environment.

Vikings were one group able to navigate in this manner, Polynesians, Phoenicians, many seafaring cultures relied more on basic knowledge of the world than technology. We consider it impossible because we do not invest the time or effort to understand the world we live in. It just takes patience and the perseverance while maintaining careful observation. The patterns created by seasons and oceans when measured against the stars and planets and rising and setting of the sun are more than enough to guide seasoned sailors across entire oceans. They have been doing this for tens of thousands of years.

in the 1970's a reporter set out with with a Maine crab fisherman to write local story. She sailed with him when he set the pots, and then watched as he gathered them up again. She could not understand how he was able to know where he left the pots,there was no observable manner to record the location of each pot. Yet, he would sail from one to the other seemingly without effort. When she could not find any method he was using, she finally asked him how he knew where each pot was located.
The captain looked at her with a puzzled expression and said; because that is where i left them.

There are accomplished sailors in the world that do not need technology to know where they are, and which direction to point their ship. Crossing oceans today seems impossible without GPS because we do not spend the time and effort to understand our environment as they could and did.

reply to post by JackMack

in the 1970's a reporter set out with with a Maine crab fisherman to write local story. She sailed with him when he set the pots, and then watched as he gathered them up again. She could not understand how he was able to know where he left the pots,there was no observable manner to record the location of each pot. Yet, he would sail from one to the other seemingly without effort. When she could not find any method he was using, she finally asked him how he knew where each pot was located.
The captain looked at her with a puzzled expression and said; because that is where i left them.

I'm sure he was having some fun at her ignorance. He was "westering" (or "eastering") which is following a particular latitude due west or east. All his pots he dropped were in a straight line along that particular latitude. All he had to do was wait to snag one as he followed that line. His first pot was surely marked with a buoy - not only to tell him where it was but so he could snag the line. The other pots would have been on that same line. Latitudes are easy to follow, even for ancient sailors. Longitudes require more work.

reply to post by Hanslune


Soryy to respond to your post ...

I agree linking michigan copper to bronze age copper is a strecth, however the amount of copper in michigan alone generated more revenue than the entire gold rush. So that part is not a stretch.

The statement by the poster before has to do with the mysterious ancient mines on isle royale/ lake superior and what happened to the ancient copper that was mined. Geologist and engineers havent agreed on how much but some estimates are in the billions. During world war one 270 million tons were mined in that region alone, those were scraps compared to what was mined by the ancient miners.

The question is who dunnit?

I do agree Hanslune tho a michigan copper thread would be cool. Great thread slayer !!

I bet those archaeological 'scholars' just hate Ocums razor! couple of years ago I watched a program on TV where the guy stated that some of the copper and tin used by the Phoenicians came from whats now known as Cornwall, at the very tip of south west England, UK. so these ancient mariners sailed a lot of sea!
Great post by the way.