Christians & Muslims & Creationists, what is your explanation for Human vestigiality?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Akragon

 

I meant all of it, but that last part specifically was the answer to your question. I thought it was obvious.

So basically we were created by aliens?

Who made... pardon me.... "created" them?

reply to post by Jauk3


You are quite behind the times. Doctors and Scientists have determined there are no vestigial bones or organs in the human body. The Appendix, wisdom teeth, and tail bone have functions throughout a person's life.

HERE, and

HERE.


(Especially hilarious is the claim that the tailbone is vestigial. It would be really funny trying to watch someone hold their bowels in place without one.. quite a messy sight.).

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I'm agnostic, but I've always wondered why people have such a hard time resolving creationism and evolution.

What if evolution is a god's creative act? In other words....evolution as the process by which a creator creates?

That would be one sorry-assed god, just sayin.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by Jauk3

 

Vestigiality to me, is just the name given by science to hide the fact that they are the ones who don't know these organs true purposes . I believe these organs actually do serve a purpose in the human body and perhaps, our lack of knowledge about their purpose is the reason why we suffer certain common physical ailments that we would otherwise not suffer if we knew what the organs true purpose was for our human body.

.

But doctors and scientists do know those functions today. The OP premise is based on antiquated knowledge of the human body. See links above.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I'm agnostic, but I've always wondered why people have such a hard time resolving creationism and evolution.

What if evolution is a god's creative act? In other words....evolution as the process by which a creator creates?

That would be one sorry-assed god, just sayin.

And why would that be 'one sorry-assed god'? What do you find so distasteful about evolution and the possibility of divinity in its process?

retracted...

The 2 can go hand in hand though evolution is an effect of a changing environment it is not what caused us to be here in the first place so the cause of us being here is still up for debate.

Some people will as they always have ascribe the creation to another source be it god or aliens or whatever their belief system may be, therefore this argument has no difinitive end im afraid.

We have various organs which we don't use or we still have a small part of that organ, like our third eye lid, our tail bone, appendix, wisdom teeth, etcetera. Why would God create us with these unused body parts which serve no purpose in our body?

Let me guess,''God made it that way to test to see if you would still believe in him'' or ''the devil created it to decieve you''

Nobody with half a brain, or any understanding of science, should be using the phrases you've placed below. Firstly, because God isn't stupid, and secondly, because the devil has no power to create.

Now. The question.
This one isn't complex at all.

What the Bible presents to us isn't a concept of evolution (progressive, positive change through mutation), but degeneration. Mankind was created perfect, and has progressively degenerated into what we see today. This is where vestigial parts come from. They once served a function; they no longer do.

Some of these parts, e.g. wisdom teeth, may not have been present in man originally, but now are, thanks to mutations. These things are good examples of the fact that mutations never create new genetic information, they only have the capacity to either degenerate existing information or to duplicate it.

I'm sure there will be Christians on here with a more commanding knowledge of science than I who can explain this better than I have; however, Christians need to be aware that, put simply, if God created the Bible, then nothing within it can or should violate what we know from science. The Bible may not be a science textbook, but if it is written by God (and I believe it is), it should be consistent.

...and for those who back away from these issues...
the Bible says we should be "always ready to give an answer".

"God put it there to test you" isn't an answer. It's a cop-out.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I'm agnostic, but I've always wondered why people have such a hard time resolving creationism and evolution.

What if evolution is a god's creative act? In other words....evolution as the process by which a creator creates?

OP.. your making to much sense your going to melt brains with that kind of rational thinking

anyways, I went to a private Seventh Day Adventist grade school with a public school across the street..

and after understanding the difference, I came to the same conclusion 5th grade..

reply to post by Jauk3


There are no organs or processes that are part of the human body that are unused for the entire life cycle of the organism.

The implication that you believe that there are such "vestigial" organs shows that you have not fully researched these organs and what they actually do.

The Appendix serves the function of allowing gut bacteria a place to safely multiply and signal the immune system to deal specifically and in a targeted manner with bacterial colonies in the lower-mid intestine. The Tonsils have similar function at the start of the intestine.

Our Wisdom Teeth are used to chew up harder and more fibrous plant matter and tougher meats (like beef jerky).

Our "tail bone" has significant musculature bound to it.

And "Junk DNA" is not functionless and useless. It performs several primary and essential functions and was misnamed because at the time its functions were unknown. Today we know better (genetics would not be adaptable without unused codons at the end of gene sequence). Additionally, some "unused" gene sequences (junk DNA) are actually able to be switched on or off. This leads to the new gene science of Epigenetics.

And just for the record, I personally believe that God uses genetic mutability and survival of the fittest to enhance and add variety to life. This does not mean that He cannot also create entire complex species instantly, out of nothing. He's God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I'm agnostic, but I've always wondered why people have such a hard time resolving creationism and evolution.

What if evolution is a god's creative act? In other words....evolution as the process by which a creator creates?

That would be one sorry-assed god, just sayin.

no, in fact, it would not.

In the Christian myth, Lucifer, the Light Bearer, looked around in perfect heaven & declared God had created mindless entities without free will to worship & serve Him to feed His ego. If His created eternal angels had a choice, it would be different, but they did not. As this was the case, Lucifer declared he too could & would sit on the throne of God himself and be worshiped. Apparently with infinite angels in heaven quite a few agreed with him and when he was cast out by God to earth to start the free will experiment to prove him right or wrong, a third of the angels went with him..

so why would a physical world of constantly growing life forms, or evolving if you will, with free will, being given the opportunity to chose good or bad be "sorry-assed"? ..only because it bursts your egotistical pride. you have to be right. you, once again on these boards declared you know better than your own God. good job. I suspect you would be happy in the dark ages where you could read Gods word in another language & then tell the people in their own tongue what "God meant to say".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Jauk3

 

You are quite behind the times. Doctors and Scientists have determined there are no vestigial bones or organs in the human body. The Appendix, wisdom teeth, and tail bone have functions throughout a person's life.

HERE, and

HERE.


(Especially hilarious is the claim that the tailbone is vestigial. It would be really funny trying to watch someone hold their bowels in place without one.. quite a messy sight.).

edit on 6-1-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

and here you seriously want people to believe we needed three eyelids and our spleen with extra teeth, along with a tail before the flood?... and it did not rain & there was never a rainbow?

double rainbow guy wouldn't like the thought of no rainbows at all..

I see you are still slinging the same cow patties around here..

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I'm agnostic, but I've always wondered why people have such a hard time resolving creationism and evolution.

What if evolution is a god's creative act? In other words....evolution as the process by which a creator creates?

That would be one sorry-assed god, just sayin.

And why would that be 'one sorry-assed god'? What do you find so distasteful about evolution and the possibility of divinity in its process?

He/she would be a god who was impotent to encode all the diversity of life from the start in each organism's DNA. Would need millions+ years to achieve their plans for creation. And use such a random and wholly inefficient means to do so. Yeah, sorry-assed.

The God of the Bible did the job with a thought and a command.

reply to post by reeferman


Actually read the links about "vestigial organs" and then re-respond.

Thanks.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Actually, I did.

you should read the material before you set a link while stroking your ego..

and think of a response other than a deflection.

you have continually proved yourself to be a typical christian.

go pray on that.

matter of fact, why don't you grab two of your most devote

buddies & try to manifest a miracle.. perhaps a healing..

as the Bible says..video tape it..

and then you can be the one to end the entire controversy..

you'll be you tube famous.. ego fed.

reply to post by reeferman


Ad homs and appeals to ridicule. Typical response from someone who cannot address the issue itself.

There is no such thing as "vestigial organs", that's been debunked for over 2 decades.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

You are quite behind the times. Doctors and Scientists have determined there are no vestigial bones or organs in the human body. The Appendix, wisdom teeth, and tail bone have functions throughout a person's life.

HERE, and

HERE.

(Especially hilarious is the claim that the tailbone is vestigial. It would be really funny trying to watch someone hold their bowels in place without one.. quite a messy sight.).

No biologist has ever claimed that vestigial structures have no use, they simply have diminished use compared to their previous function.

The erroneous "completely nonfunctional" definition of a vestige is primarily found in medical papers, textbooks, and dictionaries (e.g. Williams and Myers 1994, p. ix). Using this incorrect and nonevolutionary definition, it is logical to conclude that a structure is not vestigial if its function is discovered. For instance, based upon this incorrect definition, Williams and Myers 1994 incorrectly argue that an evolutionary vestige cannot be both a complex and a "regressive" structure (p. 27). Similarly, a modern version of Gray's Anatomy confusingly implies that the appendix cannot be both vestigial and specialized (Williams and Warwick 1980). However, vestiges are very often complex or specialized structures, in fact overly complex for their functions, and prime examples are the wing of the ostrich and the eyes of blind cavefish. A vestige can be a complex structure, in an absolute sense, while simultaneously being rudimentary or degenerate relative to the same homologous structure in other organisms.

ves·tig·i·al (v-stj-l, -stjl) adj.
2. Biology Occurring or persisting as a rudimentary or degenerate structure

Nowhere is it implied that the structures are useless.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Ad homs and appeals to ridicule. Typical response from someone who cannot address the issue itself.
There is no such thing as "vestigial organs", that's been debunked for over 2 decades.

by questioning your hysterical beliefs & addressing your smug know it all attitude I am keeping within the guidelines of the ATS motto.. Deny Ignorance..your replies can be seen as ad hominen. you have provided no answers and "because you say so".

regardless..

then explain what function the appendix performs?

without circular biblical logic, "the bible says" or "before the flood"

about 39k are removed every year. it is thought it was from days gone

by when mans diet was different, but its not needed now.

If Adam & Eve were created perfect in the garden as vegetarians

why would they need extra teeth to come in, especially that they were

formed as PERFECT adults and that is a carnivorous trait?

I could go on but the point is proven.

btw

He/she would be a god who was impotent to encode all the diversity of life from the start in each organism's DNA. Would need millions+ years to achieve their plans for creation. And use such a random and wholly inefficient means to do so. Yeah, sorry-assed.

does not God control space & time?

so then He would have trillions of years to do whatever He liked. However He liked.

did not Christianity revise its view on six days of creation..?

Even your religion allows unspecified time within a day to take place..as God is not held to times constraints. The concept of time being mans invention.


ah ATS

its fun to watch the evolution of Christianity in my lifetime..

and Christianity changes every day.

but what can you expect from a group splintered into 35k different versions..

all know best, all argue against each others view, from the same fairy tale book..

and then demand the rest of the world follows, even when facts plainly and

continuously prove otherwise.

they just adapt the new information evolve the story..

the tasilbone is NOT vestigial muscles are attached which prevent us all walking around in adult diapers

also i have heard that people who have thier appendix removed have an increase in certain health complaints
i also heard something about wisdom teeth but cant remember

How does evolution explain the vestigiality of the fact we only use 5% of our brain?

Evolution can't because evolution being progressive would not grow a brain capacity that we could never use. Creation could because it say man is fallen and can't achieve all his potential now.

Therefore you cannot disprove God with the arguments you use. And by the way, an appendix is useful. It reboots the bacteria in the gut if they decline. That's something I thought was well known.

Originally posted by Jauk3

In the context of human evolution, human vestigiality involves those characters (such as organs or behaviors) occurring in the human species that are considered vestigial—in other words having lost all or most of their original function through evolution. Although structures usually called "vestigial" often appear functionless, a vestigial structure may retain lesser functions or develop minor new ones.[1] In some cases, structures once identified as vestigal simply had an unrecognized function.[2]
The examples of human vestigiality are numerous, including the anatomical (such as the human appendix, tailbone, wisdom teeth, and inside corner of the eye), the behavioral (goose bumps and palmar grasp reflex), sensory (decreased olfaction), and molecular (junk DNA). Many human characteristics are also vestigial in other primates and related animals..

Human Vestigiality

The concept of vestigiality applies to genetically determined structures or attributes that have apparently lost most or all of its ancestral function in a given species. Assessment of the vestigial status must generally rely on comparison with homologous features in related species. The emergence of vestigiality occurs by normal evolutionary processes, typically by loss of function of a feature that is no longer subject to positive selection pressures when it loses its value in a changing environment. More urgently the feature may be selected against when its function becomes definitely harmful. Typical examples of both types occur in the loss of flying capability in island-dwelling species.

Vestigiality


We have various organs which we don't use or we still have a small part of that organ, like our third eye lid, our tail bone, appendix, wisdom teeth, etcetera. Why would God create us with these unused body parts which serve no purpose in our body?

Let me guess,''God made it that way to test to see if you would still believe in him'' or ''the devil created it to decieve you''

Corrupted Genetic material inbred over thousands of years of cross breeding.