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What Gods created the Heavens and the Earth?

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posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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What Gods created the Heavens and the Earth?

Yes, and when i say this, i say in context of Judeo-Christian teachings. After doing some reading, i came across an interesting article --lost now-- that stated the Original Paleo-Hewbrew Genesis would have started as follows: "In the beginning gods created the heavens and the earth". Note the plural GODS, which would later be replaced with the singular GOD.

My question is two-fold: What "GODS" created the Heavens and the Earth? And, yhy was "Gods" translated into it's current singular version ?

As i do more reading i find some very odd pedagogical dogma, one which comes to mind is the name of Jesus itself which has been perverted over the years for reasons of unfound constraint. This is coming of the top of of my head, i lost the article, so bear with me and correct whatever mistakes i make.

The original paleo-Hebrew name of the Messiah should have been Yahushua, as it were, the gentiles transiliterated his name to Greek, which subsequently became, Iesous, and, as it were, transliterated into Latin, it became Iesus. Now, being that Iesus sounded to "girly", it was once again, and finaly, translated to it's present form, JESUS.

Why would the son of God have his name changed so many times ?

Deep

[edit on 26-10-2004 by ZeroDeep]




posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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I do know one thing is that the original torah used the word Elohim. It explains the Elohim created the earth. Even when you read the kings james version it says, "Let us create man in our image" I'm sure someone here can clarify the Elohim issue. I think Elohim in Hebrew means Those Who Came From The Sky. Its a very interesting subject.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 06:46 PM
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Thats interesting, is this a bit more evidence in favour of 'many' gods? I wonder why that'd be changed unless of course it somehow doesn't fit the Vatican's picture perfect bible. Anyone know of any other examples that hint at plural gods? Also its too bad you can't find that link anymore.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 07:02 PM
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It has been shown time and time again that the pre-Exilic Israelite religion was polytheistic or at least monolatrous with YHWH in a crowd of other gods worshipped next to him ("this brook is sacred to YHWH and his Asherah" etc.) and only during the reforms of Ezra (BC 430) did Israel settle on its own local clan god YHWH more or less monotheistically.

Read: WHO WROTE THE BIBLE? by Elliot Friedman, for a layman's overview of the origin of ELOHIM which later came to be "governed" by a "singular" verb BARA (lit. "the gods, he created the heavens and the earth...").

"Let US make Adam IN OUR IMAGE, and AFTER OUR LIKENESS" is also a polytheistic phrase found in Bere#h ("Genesis") chapter 1 (composed for the New Year Festival by the so-called Hezekielite or "P" writer, who also wrote the book of the prophet Hezekiel--same style, styntax, grammar etc. after the Exile in Babylon i.e. post 550 BC).

Judaeim before the exile (i.e. before 587 BC) and Judaeism after the exile into Babylon (i.e. after 430 BC) are two very different animals.

BEFORE THE EXILE = Polytheistic ("Let us make man in OUR image after OUR likeness")
AFTER THE EXILE = Monotheistic ("Hear o Israel, YHWH is our clan god, YHWH alone ! placed naturally back into the mouth of Moses---you know the one who likes to make Bronze Snake Idols and put them up on poles)

To say that the "bible" is a "unity" is ignoring all the internal evidence to the contrary.

People, do the research, please....! The text has been re-written several times over with different groups expressing different theologies at different periods in the history.....






[edit on 26-10-2004 by Amadeus]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Amadeus
YHWH alone ! placed naturally back into the mouth of Moses---you know the one who likes to make Bronze Snake Idols and put them up on poles)


[edit on 26-10-2004 by Amadeus]



The Bronze serpent was a foreshadowing of Christ. The serpent stood for sin. When the people looked at the serpent that had been lifted up after they had been bitten they lived. We have been "bitten" by the serpent of sin, Jesus Christ was lifted up on a cross and our sin was placed on Him. When we look to Him for salvation(from our sin) we will live.

OK here's the nifty part. We have the whole Bible today. The people who had the OT did not have everything explained to them. The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

Another instance of Jesus in the OT. The people were clammering for water in the desert. God told Moses to STRIKE the rock to bring forth water. He did and water came forth from the rock. The rock is Jesus Christ. The water is the Holy Sprit who indwells us. The rock was struck. Christ was "struck" upon the cross for our sin. Later on the people were complaining for water again so God told Moses to SPEAK to the rock. He didn't speak to it he struck it again. Water came forth, but for this Moses was not allowed to see the promised land. Why, because Christ was smiiten once for our sin not twice.


Noah's Ark is a picture of Christ. Noah was "safe in the ark". Christians today who have placed their trust in Jesus "are safe in Christ".

The tabernacle and temple are a picture of God. They had an outer court, inner court and Holy of Holies. They stand for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

OT Joseph is a foreshadowing of Christ. Joseph was betrayed by his brothers. So was Christ. Joseph was punished for no wrongdoing of his own, so was Christ.

Amadeus says people do the research please. That's the only thing I agree with him about. Yes people do the research. Open the Bible read it ask God to tell you what the verses mean. He wants everyone to know Him. He's not going to turn away anyone who sincerely wants to know Him.

Instead of going to sites that discredit the Bible why don't you go to sites that explain the Bible get some insight into what the Bible really says. God sent you the Bible and Jesus to show you the way.

And the Gods who created the Heavens and the Earth are The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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And the Gods who created the Heavens and the Earth are The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


You mean the Trinitarian belief which is never once mentioned in the Bible? I mean, the word Trinity, which seems to be lost somewhere in those pages...

I'm quite sure the Trinitarian belief was formed in the Second Emuncial council ni 381 A.D, and not during the advent of Christ, or early Christian teachings.




Another instance of Jesus in the OT. The people were clammering for water in the desert. God told Moses to STRIKE the rock to bring forth water. He did and water came forth from the rock. The rock is Jesus Christ. The water is the Holy Sprit who indwells us. The rock was struck. Christ was "struck" upon the cross for our sin. Later on the people were complaining for water again so God told Moses to SPEAK to the rock. He didn't speak to it he struck it again. Water came forth, but for this Moses was not allowed to see the promised land. Why, because Christ was smiiten once for our sin not twice.



........

Does it overtly state that Jesus is the rock and water the HOLY SPIRIT, or are you just adhereing subjective dogmatism to a simple verse ?

Deep



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep



You mean the Trinitarian belief which is never once mentioned in the Bible? I mean, the word Trinity, which seems to be lost somewhere in those pages...




Does it overtly state that Jesus is the rock and water the HOLY SPIRIT, or are you just adhereing subjective dogmatism to a simple verse ?

Deep





Yah, that's what I mean that same Trinity belief.

And Ist Corinthians 10 tells us Christ was the rock and John 7 :38 and 39 tells us water is a reference to the spirit.

Another relevant verse is Luke 8 :8 and 10 -And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.......now does this mean God hates some people? no He sent Jesus to die for evryone. But satan has blinded their minds See 2 Corinthians4:4. Anyone can understand the Bible if you are willing, some are not willing. satan can blind a person until that person hears the call of God.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by dbrandt]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 10:22 PM
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It's a possibility that there was more than one in the biginning - we don't know, we weren't there.

Plurality of Gods - The Elohim

The church adopted a form of Trinitarianism which primarily sought to deny the above. It is seriously incoherent and non-biblical. In short, the early form of Trinitarianism was initially developed by Origen in Alexandria to combat the so-called Gnostic view of a celestial council of elohim which was adhered to by the early church. Christ was a subordinate God appointed by his God (Ps. 45:7 (using Eloheik) & Heb. 1:9) who was Eloah or Theon or ho Theos (as The God) in the Greek (Jn. 1:1,18). Origen used the Stoic concept of the hypostases which is a synonym (as is the Platonic ousia) which means real existence or essence, that which a thing is. But Origen gives it the sense of individual subsistence and so individual existent. Thus, Origen developed a closed hierarchy of only three elements of the Godhead. The Father was the supreme God. The other two elements of Son and Holy Spirit were creations of the Father as ktisma. But Origens schema is a forerunner of Trinitarianism whose sole purpose was to limit the extension of the capacity to be elohim to three beings and deny its capacity in the elect and the heavenly Host. The Greeks took up Origens schema in the latter half of the third century. Some, such as Theognostus of the catechetic school at Alexandria, emphasised the Sons kinship with the Father although the Son was a creature with his activity restricted to rational beings. He also declared that his substance or ousia (using the Platonic term rather than hypostases) was derived out of the substance of the Father (see Kelly Early Church Doctrines, p. 133). Others emphasised his subordinationism. From the paper The Origins of Christmas and Easter, we know that the god Attis carried both aspects of father and son. That is a Modalist structure. These two elements gave rise to Trinitarianism. Trinitarianism is the desire to accommodate the structure of the worship of the god Attis and its Modalism into Christianity to satisfy the philosophical objections of its followers.

Also, the summerians talk of Anunnaki and the Elohim.

But in the end, who knows - there is a force of some kind out there, and he/they are probably laughing at how smart we think we are.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by godservant]



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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There are, as I understand it, a few takes on the plural gods bit. One is that its a referene to the Holy Trinity (father son spirit), which is odd considering that its not mentioned as being a trinity in the rest of the OT. At the very least the people reading the OT back then should've thought it strange.

The other is that it means god and the angels or something like that, or also multiple gods that are actually aliens or some such.

The other idea is that, like many other primitive tribes/religions, this one had a dual creator god, a man and a woman (or at least masculine and feminine) and there is supposed to be support for a consort of 'yhwh' in other jewish commentary texts. Notice also that there is supposed to be two creation stories in genesis, this one and then the one with god making things as he goes along (the first creation account and the 'secondary' account with the garden and adam and what not). SO this might even represent two different traditions that were put together later on. i think that the second one has a more singular aspect to the creator god.


the summerians talk of Anunnaki and the Elohim

Where do they talk about elohim? The annnaki are presented as a judgment council that sits in hades, a small part of a pantheon, at least as far as I am familiar with them.

[edit on 27-10-2004 by Nygdan]



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