Why Atheists are Unrelenting

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
the fact that star dust has coalesced into living breathing creatures capable of questioning the star dust from which they came...this is nothing short of a miracle.

A miracle to you, what is it to a scientist? The more you know, the less you rely on explanations that could only be possible to you, since that's all you may understand or have the ability to comprehend.

If everyone was a scientist, and we knew and understood the same things, there would be little use for the word "Miracle" since most things generally follow the laws of physics, regardless if they seem miraculous to you.

reply to post by Saturnfly


A miracle is something that defies the odds and exists, illuminating the person that witnesses it. Sometimes it's good to let go of the rigid constraints in your mind and just let possibilities occur, that is a part of our imagination and usually a great source for curing many of our internal conflicts - stop being an uptight git as us Brits say ;-)

There wouldn't be miracles unless it happened, it wouldn't have happened unless there were miracles. It's all very self serving, and the logic of miracles is that there is no logic, other than a miracle is something someone doesn't understand, but probably could if they invested enough mental resources to understand.

reply to post by Saturnfly

There wouldn't be miracles unless it happened, it wouldn't have happened unless there were miracles. It's all very self serving, and the logic of miracles is that there is no logic, other than a miracle is something someone doesn't understand, but probably could if they invested enough mental resources to understand.

Miracles are indicative of our appreciation despite lack of comprehension. We don't know how the hell it happened, but it was pretty freakin' cool. That kind of thing.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


In the end however, despite one's lack of comprehension there is always that which can be comprehended. There will always be a scientific explanation, but what many fail to realize is that it can be physically scientific, and/or it can be non-physically, metaphysically scientific.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Just because you can't comprehend something, or just because there is no current scientific explanation for something, does not mean there will never be a scientific explanation. Evidence begins as a theory, being able to comprehend the complexity of something is a skill for the educated. Saying that it is beyond comprehension, and that we shouldn't even bother to understand and just call it a miracle, is a lazy and inadequate way of learning.

When I was a kid, I didn't understand that the Sun was a star, and that each star that I could see is actually like our Sun. Before my Father taught me certain things about our solar system and the Universe, I had a very minimal view on space and science. I wasn't considering the endless stars capable of sustaining endless planets, possibly some like our own, because at that point, to me space was a simple empty, black, finite nothingness.

You can imagine the kind of wild things that went through my head when my Dad said to me "Our sun is a star, every star is like our sun, our sun has 9 planets orbiting it (before the re-definition of Pluto), how many planets orbit each star in the sky that we can see? How many stars and solar systems can we not see?"
Knowledge and understanding is important. This is why I don't hold much respect towards religious theories, simply because they are lazy and primitive.

If I want to learn, I won't step into a church and call for a priest, I'll go to school or open a book to understand the things I want to know.

reply to post by Saturnfly

If I want to learn, I won't step into a church and call for a priest, I'll go to school or open a book to understand the things I want to know.

I never suggested you consult a priest. My point is that when we finally do discover the source of all that exists, the source code for all of our reality, we should acknowledge the marvelous nature of that source. We should bask in the wonder of its function, instead of quantifying it until nothing is left but numbers. I don't want to see it objectified. Not like a dead insect under a microscope. I want to see it become the science version of the Last Supper. A spiritual masterpiece that can be understood and rationalized, but never taken for granted. I want the miracle to be appreciated.

And I fear that, when we find it, it won't be appreciated. It will be exploited and it will be lost because the challenge is gone. We will use it as a stepping stone, and we will forget it as we are blinded by our ambition.

Originally posted by Saturnfly

If I want to learn, I won't step into a church and call for a priest, I'll go to school or open a book to understand the things I want to know.

If you're just going to take somebody's word for it, you may as well go to the church. You ever consider going out into the field and conducting your own research and experiments? Living a life based on your experiences?