Why Atheists are Unrelenting

P.S. The Judeo-Christian faith is the only one that is Mathematically Perfect. It's been hidden by inattentiveness and a lack of mathematical understanding on our part for thousands of years (infinity as a mathematical concept has only been understood pretty recently). I've studied many other religions, and I cannot find another religion which even makes a real attempt to be mathematical. Most others just try to emulate the mystery and power which is contained in the Bible, but none understood that the Bible was mathematically perfect, so none emulated that. The End.


Oh..actually, one last thing...
For those who never hear the word of God and as such have no chance of accepting salvation through Christ, there is still hope, I believe. The usage of Jesus's purity and intercession was a loophole God created and later exploited to defeat Satan and save us. It is a guarantee. For those who do not have the guarantee, God/Jesus is still the judge. God is good and loving, and will only give a deserved judgement. I don't pretend to know how He will judge, and I know it would be best to rely on the guarantee instead of good works or anything else (as we are saved by grace). I do know that God is Good though, and as Judge will be fair. I do not think any of these people will go to Heaven, but I don't think they would be punished with Hell either. Just because Hell and Heaven are the places we've mainly heard of, does not mean they are the only places. There is "Abraham's Bosom", possibly Purgatory, and possibly an infinte number of other alternatives. Just becuase we were not told of something by God does not mean it does not exist. I am not the Judge, and neither is any other person. Best idea would be to accept the gift and guarantee of salvation, and to spread the word so others can have the same gift. Anyhow...any questions? I'm sure there are some...

I cannot wrap my head around religious people. Every day they praise their "god" for the good things that happen in their lives while making excuses for the bad things. Such as: it's god plan, or god needed him/ her in heavan etc. This to me shows a lack of intelligence on the believers part.

Question: If you (believers) had not been "taught" about god or religion, with all the scare tactics and being forced to go to church, what would your beliefs be?

reply to post by backcase

If we follow sin to the end we are pair with Christ executioners. But if we choose to follow Christ we repent and are forgiven for the life of sin we have led before. If we had never heard of Christ then man's ignorance is taken into account by God, which can be learned from common sense, that if a man lives with good will and leads a life of virtue, he is essentially Christian in the true context of the label.

HAHA! I sloshed my coffee in my cup while reading this.

How is it that you invoke Common Sense now? Where was your common sense when someone first told you that there's an all-knowing, all-powerful, invisible being who created the whole universe, who lives in anther dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, and who was never born and will never die????

Originally posted by MagnificentTongue
Seems like Atheists don't know themselves too well. The mere fact that they continue calling themselves Atheists is enough to tell you that they're not really too familiar with their own leaders positions and thoughts on the matter. I say this, because those men and women in academia who are the go-to people for info/ammo for Atheists to use, openly admit that they are in fact "Agnostics". There is no such thing as an intellectually or philosophically fit "Atheist". If you call yourself an Atheist, you are essentially saying that you can prove there is no God. Well, your leaders don't even say that, because they know it is ridiculous. God cannot be disproven.

I'm glad someone finally brought this up, it certainly took long enough. This is where I stand. I think both the hardcore religious and the atheists are too polarizing and neither are entirely correct. Simply, the atheists are too cynical and the religious are too gullible. It's always an us vs. them mentality with the religious and atheists but there is a middle ground, a third party. It's interesting that the atheists seem to be trying to recruit as hard as the religious are.

reply to post by backcase

“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Okay, so we shouldn't worry about food and clothes because the heavenly father knows what we need. No need for me to comment on this. Let me just show you some images that speak for themselves.

reply to post by jiggerj
You must be very young and full of what someone has told you. I would bet the farm you have NEVER been in combat or feared for your life; because you would not take this line. I have been with many "Atheists" in combat and it only lastest for about one patrol and that was it! The will be praying to a srtick of wood or a rock before it is said and done. Talk you crap and try and convience yourself you are right but in the back of your mind will be that little doubt and it will overwhelm you in your moment of death or the possibility of death. I would also guess you are a 20 something that don't know a hole in the groound from his A$$hole???? I've seen people like like who talk a good game until it is time to check out and you are the FIRST one to ask for help to find God.
I only wish you the best and really don't care what you have to say in return; I have seen thousands like you and they all beilieved in something when the reality of death was upon them. It is easy to be a "Keyboard Commando" and talk you dribble when there is no price to pay. I would venture to guess that you have lived a very sheltered life with Mommy and Daddy or they bank role you; even though you are why beyond the age of resposibility. I would love to take a person like you into combat and watch you pee down your leg in the first fire fight! You would change you dog tags from Atheist to what ever you could find real quick.
Talk your smack if it makes you feel better; and I will not say another word except at the end of it all when you draw you final breath you will change your position on what you say here; I have seen it too many times and it is ALWAYS the same.

Atheism and religion are BOTH part of the SAME agenda.

Both are nothing more than stealth mind control tools.

The sheer IRONY of fundamental atheists who label believers as "religious" fanatics is incredible.

They are FAR more fanatical than any religious cult.

Atheism is an idiot's belief as much as any other religion is.

Why? Because it's a belief.

It's based on NOTHING factual.

Atheism is just another Illuminati mind control Religion with the same stealth agenda.

reply to post by MagnificentTongue

That Which Separated (Divided) somethingness from nothingness, when all there was was nothingness (which never existed, technically). God is the Law Maker, the Promise Keeper, incapable of contradicting himself, and ultimately, the Origin and Ultimate Result of Logic.

See, this is what the religious are really good at; putting two opposing thoughts together and believing they've made some sense, when in reality, it's pretty much insane. Somethingness from a nothingness that technically never existed. I'm sorry but it is pure unadulterated nonsense.

If the god you speak of is the biblical god, and if the writing of the bible was 'inspired' by this god, then he contradicts the fact that he is all-knowing when he said to Abraham, "Now I know that you fear me." If he didn't know Abraham feared him before He tested him, then he is not all-knowing.

There is another part in the bible where he claims to ***now*** know something, but I can't think of it at the moment.

reply to post by backcase


"Nah, we just see the grand scheme of things, instead of the pessimistic atheist outlook of modern day society.

And we also would rather go through the day thinking of the Holiness of God rather than have faith in a society detrimental to itself."

A society detrimental to itself which consists of around 73% Christians.
I think its time for a change.
And you are silly for thinking we are pessimistic about life because we dont believe in jebus. We want to help the world and our fellow humans, not live in fantasy land where when you screw up you get a game over screen and then go hang out with angels.

reply to post by windword

Off topic response to Windword
It is interesting that you use the "Roman Catholic Church" as an example of christianity. It is not. Many of its tenents are non-biblical and is a non christian entity.
Consider the following:

No, Roman Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is properly defined by certain doctrines that are revealed in the Bible. It is not defined by simply saying that as long as you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian. Mormons believe in Jesus, but their Jesus is a brother of the devil in the pre-existence. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is Michael the Archangel. So, just saying you believe in Jesus doesn't make you a Christian. This is why the Bible tells us who Jesus really is, God in flesh, creator of the universe. Likewise, there are essential doctrines, and if any of those essential doctrines are violated, then a church would only appear to be Christian but not really be Christian. What are those doctrines? The Bible tells us. Let's take a look.

1. There is only one God and you are to serve no other gods (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).
2. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
3. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
4. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
5. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
6. God is a Trinity (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14).
7. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Matt. 1:25).

So, someone who is a true Christian will believe these things and not violate them. Roman Catholicism violates two of them (#1 and #4). First of all, by its practice of promoting Mary (and the Saints) to the level of God-like capabilities, they break the commandment to have no other gods before the true and living God. In Roman Catholicism, they say that Mary is the mediatrix (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 969); Mary made atonement for the sins of man (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, page 213); Mary is the subject of preaching and worship (Vatican Council II, p. 420); etc.

Also, Catholicism violates the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace through faith alone. Paul the apostle, for example, tells us in Romans 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." But Roman Catholicism denies that and says, "...so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments," (CCC, par 2068). Also, consider this:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).

So, even though Roman Catholicism claims to be Christian and that it is the one true church, it violates the essentials of the Christian faith. It goes beyond what is written in God's word (1 Cor. 4:6). It denies the sole and true sovereignty of the living God by promoting prayer to and the worship of Mary. Also, it denies justification by faith alone in Christ alone. It is not a Christian church.

reply to post by LPOPranger


You yourself seem like more of a keyboard commando than the op. Not everyone will be clammoring for a god to pray for in combat situations, as you stated. Just because you witnessed a few scared young men, scared out of their wits, look to magic beings for comfort, doesn't mean all will follow suit. Which brings up a good point, religion is a fear based activity. Do this or this will happen, believe this or this will happen. It's all just a bunch of bs used to minipulte the simple minded masses. Working rather well too I might add.

I'm just using this as an example, but in a video game one choice the main character had was to let the world be destroyed and lead the survivors to rebuild humanity. He would revered during his lifetime. A hero after he died . A legend after many years . And eventually he would be remembered as a God, and his word godly.

His word would then be used to justify war and murder. The point being that religion is a big lie created to control people.

reply to post by imawlinn
From your avatar you seem like someone who has seen too many B rated horror flims. You too must be a 20 something full of yourself. Most of you here crack me up' you don't even know who you are yet. However, you try and force feed people your ideas.
I am far from a key board commado; I have the scars. medals, and lost friends to prove it! Maybe you should get a "Little" more life experiance before you open you mouth; nothing good or meaningful can come from it! Isn't Honey boo boo or some crap on MTV on for you to run too?

One of the big questions people seem to have about Salvation, is "How?"....

Let's examine the factors involved.

First, no impurity can enter Heaven.

reply to post by MagnificentTongue


My big question is: How can anyone claim to know anything about the rules set up by their god? How do YOU know that no impurity can enter heaven? Who told you this? One sin out of a lifetime of good works and we're trashed. Does this sound like a god you want to worship?

Even we humans are more merciful than this when considering the fact that even a murderer can pay his dues to society and be released from prison after serving 25 years or so. But, if you're not sorry for being broke and stealing that can of beans to feed your kids and it's eternal damnation for you!

Your premise is not only unknowable for a human, it is also illogical that an all-merciful god would do this.

Originally posted by jiggerj

One of the big questions people seem to have about Salvation, is "How?"....

Let's examine the factors involved.

First, no impurity can enter Heaven.

reply to post by MagnificentTongue

 

My big question is: How can anyone claim to know anything about the rules set up by their god? How do YOU know that no impurity can enter heaven? Who told you this? One sin out of a lifetime of good works and we're trashed. Does this sound like a god you want to worship?

Even we humans are more merciful than this when considering the fact that even a murderer can pay his dues to society and be released from prison after serving 25 years or so. But, if you're not sorry for being broke and stealing that can of beans to feed your kids and it's eternal damnation for you!

Your premise is not only unknowable for a human, it is also illogical that an all-merciful god would do this.

While I am no defender of a specific faith...your logic on these points is well grounded, and points to obvious flaws in belief systems, specifically the hardcore christian ones in the examples being given.

The logic points to another scenario...
All the puerile discussion of the effects of FREE WILL have been 'reverse' shoe-horned into a belief system based on this illogical premise...the logic does not even make 'internal' sense...because it is wrong...

A99

reply to post by MagnificentTongue

I can't just step in and have my hand cut off without your knowledge and acceptance, and count that as having paid your penalty. Also, numbers play a part here. If you stole two loaves of bread and the punishment is then to have two hands cut off, to intercede fully, I would have to offer up both my hands to be cut off for yours. What happens then if you stole 3? I cannot step in and have 3 hands cut off. I only have 2. You only have 2 as well, so I don't know how they would handle that...but I hope you're getting the gist of this.. On Earth and in heaven, the punishments are mathematically linked. One for One. What then can I do if the total punishment for your crime is death? I would then have to give my life to intercede for yours.

Oh, I'm certainly getting the gist of it. lol Question is, are you getting it? The death of Jesus doesn't forgive sins. The forgiveness of sins occurs when god decided to forgive sins - period. Consider that if god didn't want to forgive sins, would the crucifixion of Jesus FORCE god to forgive sins? Of course not, because god is GOD. So, the death of Jesus meant absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by imawlinn
I cannot wrap my head around religious people. Every day they praise their "god" for the good things that happen in their lives while making excuses for the bad things. Such as: it's god plan, or god needed him/ her in heavan etc. This to me shows a lack of intelligence on the believers part.

Question: If you (believers) had not been "taught" about god or religion, with all the scare tactics and being forced to go to church, what would your beliefs be?

edit on 5-1-2013 by imawlinn because: (no reason given)

Your words show that you would seemingly know the difference between good and bad, and intelligence and lack thereof. So, what's your excuse for your avatar?
Please explain to me how your avatar shows that you are good?
IMO it's not very intelligent to blame ATS member's parents for their words and actions, no one's here because they are forced to be. And if a person REALLY wanted to kill themselves, they'd find a way to do so.
I'm glad that I don't need to wonder whether God is real or not, I'm glad I've experienced things for myself that my parents never experienced. Your question is loaded, it comes from the assumption that people are capable of knowing what their life would be like if this or that happened as if the variables were set for only one possible outcome, that's not scientific and it's not intelligent.

I don't believe in making excuses for the bad behaviors of others or even my own bad behavior. Really, look at your post, you accused folk of making excuses for the bad, then ask what a person's life would be like if their parents didn't force them to go to church?

Originally posted by jiggerj
My big question is: How can anyone claim to know anything about the rules set up by their god? How do YOU know that no impurity can enter heaven?

Once a person has had a supernatural EXPERIENCE with God, they don't claim to "know" squat.

They simply KNOW...

If you ever have an encounter with God like I did, you will KNOW what I am talking about.

reply to post by LPOPranger


Wow grandpa, tell me another story about the good ole days! Seriously, the assumptions are spewing from your keyboard much like your religious rhetoric. For your information, I'm soon to be 40 years old and have plenty of life experience. Here let me try: judging from your poorly written posts, I would venture to say you didn't finish high school. See how ridiculous generalizations are.

Just because someones views are different from yours, that doesn't mean they're a
braindead 20 year old.

And btw, had you used just a tiny bit of your extensive knowlege, you would know that the op was born in 1955. Also not a braindead 20 year old hooked on honey boo boo as you so eliquently put it.

reply to post by jiggerj
That is a good question! I have pondered that for years and IMO it is as follows.
No matter what religion there is another that says it is wrong. For example if you are Sothern Baptist then you believe NO ONE will go to heaven except people of the same faith. So......that means that 800,000 + Bapitist will go to heaven and the other 6,200,000,000 people go to Hell. They had better be working overtime down there!
However, this is not the God that I believe in; my God is a forgiving and loving God. It does not matter what you have been taught, For example if all you have ever been told is XYZ is the reason for all your troubles then you will believe that; you know no different. I do not think that God will split hairs if you follow the laws he laid down. It is hard to complain that if everyone followed these laws the world would not be a better place...agreed? I wish harm to no one and have seen more than my fair share of the rotten side of humans, but most have the increadible love and need to do good if given half a chance,
People make the belief in God hard; I agree with many people that have posted that it is a form of control. This is not the way it was intended; like everthing else Man has perverted and changed it to suit his needs,