Why Atheists are Unrelenting, page 6


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 16 times


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:36 PM by Snsoc
reply to post by jiggerj


Ah, satire.

Please submit for us, if you will, the peer-reviewed scientific papers, resulting from rigourous and unbiased experiments consisting of reproducable conditions and logical deductions, that definitively prove that there is no God.


Until you can, posts like yours do nothing to convince anyone, but only serve to needlessly antagonize people.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:39 PM by MagnificentTongue
2). Wherever there is order or a system, there exists absolute truth. Relative truth (your personal beliefs) is not truth at all. "Relative truth" is an example of word-play. It is meaningless in terms of man's attempts at discovering the truth....as a matter of fact, it is only detrimental. What everyone needs to realize is that matter, space, and time all rely on each other for their own existence. BEFORE they could even exist, or at the same time that they all appeared, all of the perfect, beautiful logic and math represented in the physical laws GIVEN to this trio, would have had to exist. If scientists want to figure out how the universe was created, they'll have to look at what is underlying through time, space, and matter. That thing is logic. Logic, like the rest of creation, is too perfect and complex to have been spit up by chaos.

Anyhow, I know this thread started out as a religious hate thread, but I just want to encourage all of you who call yourselves Atheists to at least reconsider how you label yourselves. You don't look intelligent to people when you call yourself an Atheist. If you're unsure about which religion to follow, just call yourself an Agnostic for now, and keep searching for the truth. The "truth" that our scientists try to sell you is often times intentionally untrue, and more often accidentally so. People are imperfect. Math and Logic aren't. Go with Math and Logic, and stop hating religion so much. It doesn't make sense.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:46 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by backcase




The Image of the Cross is that of Perfect Love


The image of the cross is that of savage brutality.



so that we may see that our sin is completed in the executioners of Christ. That is where sin leads, to the destruction of our own soul.


But Jesus supposedly died on the cross to forgive those sins. It can't be both ways. Either sins are forgiven, or they aren't. Which is it?



If Jesus is followed to the death, and we endure all earthly suffering beside Him in faith and hope, then we shall be resurrected and we shall ascend to Heaven.


You are locked away in a cell, beaten every day, raped at the guard's whim, fingers cut off...
In the next cell is a man that was brought up in the jungle and never heard of Jesus. He suffers the exact same torture as you.

Now, because you believe in Jesus you get to go to heaven while the other man doesn't. The question is, who could love a god that would do this?

If you find some excuse for the other man to go to heaven without ever knowing Jesus, then it is clear that believing in Jesus doesn't matter.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways.



reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:52 PM by jiggerj

God shows us that it is not the physical body which matters, but it is the spirit of man,
reply to post by backcase


You are implying that god created something that is meaningless. If the body doesn't matter, then why not create us as spirits? If the body is meaningless, why load it up with emotions, needs, and selfish wants?

It can't be both ways. Either the body is very important, which is why god created it, or the body is meaningless and makes god prone to frivolous creations. Which is it?


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:59 PM by windword
reply to post by jiggerj


Jiggerj,

You sure do know how to attract all the street corner preachers of ATS, like flies to honey!




reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:00 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by backcase




This one is easy. God is Spirit, and our spirits have His likeness and are able even to reflect Him God is not a physical man. glad I could clear this up, peace to you and to the members who have read this thread and the comments contained wherein.


Please show me in the bible where it is said that our likeness is in spirit? Or did you make that up? Also, what form does a spirit have? Does it have arms? Legs? Why would god need arms and legs?

Is a spirit without form? If so, then how can anything be created in a likeness that has no form?

I'm sorry, my friend, if this is what you call clearing this up, my heart truly aches for you because you are so far gone that there's just no coming back. No exaggeration, I feel such a hollowness in my stomach for not being able to help you.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:05 PM by backcase
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by backcase




so that we may see that our sin is completed in the executioners of Christ. That is where sin leads, to the destruction of our own soul.


But Jesus supposedly died on the cross to forgive those sins. It can't be both ways. Either sins are forgiven, or they aren't. Which is it?






If we follow sin to the end we are pair with Christ executioners. But if we choose to follow Christ we repent and are forgiven for the life of sin we have led before.

If we had never heard of Christ then man's ignorance is taken into account by God, which can be learned from common sense, that if a man lives with good will and leads a life of virtue, he is essentially Christian in the true context of the label.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:08 PM by Siberbat
A street preacher's response to an atheist.
The preacher was on the street corner telling the passing crowds about Jesus Christ. A crowd had gathered and was listening intently. Then a hoarse voice spoke up from the back.
"Preacher, you've got it all wrong. Atheism is the answer to humanity's problems. People get into trouble and go crazy when they hear about Christianity. Religion is bad for minds and ruins lives. Come on now, prove to me that Christianity is real, and I'll be quiet."
Everyone was interested to see what would happen next. The preacher held up his hand for quiet, and then said this:

"Never did I hear anyone state, "I was undone and an outcast, but I read Thomas Paine's 'Age of Reason' and now I have been saved from the power of sin." Never did I hear of one who declared, 'I was in darkness and despair and knew not where to turn, until I read Ingersoll's Lectures, and then found peace of heart and solutions to my problems.'
"Never did I hear an atheist telling that his atheism had been the means by which he had been set free from the bondage of liquor. Never did I learn of anyone who conquered hard drugs by renouncing faith in God.
"But I have heard many testify that, when as hopeless and helpless sinners, they had turned in their great need to the Son of God and cast themselves upon Him for forgiveness and enabling power to overcome sin—they were given peace of heart and victory over enslaving sin!" Then, turning to the atheist, he said:
"Who starts the orphanages, the city missions, and the work among the poor? It is the Christians. Who owns and operates the taverns, and manufactures the liquor sold in them? It is the atheists. Who risk their lives to help poor people in mission fields all over the world? It is the Christians. Who runs the abortion mills and the houses of prostitution? It is the atheists. Who are the most solid, kindly, industrious people in the nation? It is the Christians. Who operates the gambling halls and the crime syndicates? It is the atheists.
"Who are the swindlers, bank robbers, and embezzlers? It is the atheists. Who helps men put away their sins, live to bless others, and prepares men for death and eternity? It is the Christians.
“Yes, professed Christians sometimes do bad things. But it is infrequent enough to be newsworthy. If an atheist does a criminal act, it is to be expected. But if a church leader does it, it will make the headlines, because it is such a rare event.
"What leads men to throwaway the bottle and stop beating their wives? It is Christianity, not atheism. What saves the wayward girls, the teenage boys, and the rest of us out of lives of sin? It is Christianity, not atheism.
"Christianity offers eternal happiness that begins now. Atheism can only offer doubt, skepticism, a miserable end, and eternal death."
Then the crowd turned to the atheist to give an answer, but he was gone. He had crept away without answering a word..


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:13 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by Wonders




If ALL the religious WOULD disappear (and you can dream all you want jigger but it's not going to happen),


I don't know, Wonder. Doesn't' it kind of go without saying that if atheism is on the rise, religion is in decline? I've heard stories of less and less believers going to mass each week. The believers are becoming passive believers, which in turn don't force religious beliefs down their kid's throats. It may take a hundred years, maybe even a thousand, but I really do see a time when baseless beliefs will be a thing of the past. We can look at pictures of people from just a hundred years ago and think how silly they were back then. It will be the same in the future when people learn about religion and think, "People really believed this crap way back when?"


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:16 PM by reeferman
Originally posted by winofiend
Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by winofiend


Every man needs hope, otherwise we are hopeless. Hope in God is the elevation towards him, not a crutch, but a wing. The second wing happens to be faith.


Let me ask you this. Which human was it that first told you about god?





oh thats hysterical! slam dunk!



i noticed you didnt get a reply



mortals convincing mortal of an invisible immortal

who wants 10% of their check every week but never

helps the problem..

power, greed, control.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:20 PM by backcase
reply to post by jiggerj


"Man is in the process of changing, to forms that are not of this world; grows he in time to the formless, a plane on the cycle above. Know ye, ye must become formless before ye are one with the light."

This is from a book called the Emerald Tablets of Thoth.

Do not feel bad for me, as I am in the process of liberation. I am sorry that you are not aware of such.

I am a functioning member of society but I place more of an importance in my spiritual life than in my physical life which must live according to the flesh.

Obviously the flesh has meaning but it does not matter as much as the spirit contained in it. I am not a quoter but I can try to run over a certain quote for you:

Mathew 6:25-34

“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:20 PM by backcase
reply to post by reeferman


actually I did give a reply...



reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:24 PM by windword
reply to post by Siberbat


Interesting story, but full of falsehoods. The Catholic Church owns many a distillery and brewery. It's no mystery why they run so many orphanages, since they have been accused of stealing children and molesting them.

Only 2% of the prison populations in the US are atheists, while 75% are Christian.

Religious suppression of women and sexual expression has created an opportunity for booming business in the prostitution sector, which used to be something that one would go to a temple for. But the church leveled all temples that were pagan. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that the Catholic Church had a hand in human trafficking, too.

Religion is responsible for more social problems than anything else.

Oh, yeah, abortion has been around and it's practice has been taught and handed down, women to women, since the dawn of time!




edit on 5-1-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:25 PM by backcase
reply to post by CashStronomer


A man who claims to live in virtue obviously has replaced the greatest virtue with the greatest sin, you have replaced humility with pride.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:31 PM by CashStronomer
reply to post by backcase

I claim to live on the Earth. I've replaced Society with Kindness, the general population with common sense, and a 'world with meaning' means nothing, if it means nothing to you.

Best I got, little tired


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:32 PM by jiggerj
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by jiggerj


Jiggerj,

You sure do know how to attract all the street corner preachers of ATS, like flies to honey!





LOL Did you hear the applause at the end? I love it.


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:36 PM by CashStronomer
reply to post by jiggerj


Funny I should see THIS signature. I wrote that as my Facebook Status last week
CHEERS


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:39 PM by MagnificentTongue
reply to post by jiggerj


Many people have a hard time believing Christianity. Many cannot attach themselves to the faith without more in-depth answers to puzzling questions the Bible leaves us with. For these types, it is not enough to follow emotionally based appeals to a state where they can proclaim that they believe, but they must analytically examine the Bible and understand it through the prism of logic in order to come to the faith. That being said, I do not think there is a great enough effort to reach out to these folks, and I also do not think that we spend enough time enriching and strengthening our own faiths through the type of thinking that would appeal to these people. Some people in the faith actually believe that it cannot be explained or understood within the constraints of logic - at least not all the time - but that because God is God, he sometimes steps outside the laws of logic and miraculously provides truths that one can only come to believe through faith, and not logic. With these people, I disagree. To me, God is Love, the Creator, the Origin of the Universe and That Which Separated (Divided) somethingness from nothingness, when all there was was nothingness (which never existed, technically). God is the Law Maker, the Promise Keeper, incapable of contradicting himself, and ultimately, the Origin and Ultimate Result of Logic.

Anyhow, I'm not going to go further down the path of explaining my understanding of God right now. I mainly intend to show you the "Math of Salvation" through Christ.

One of the big questions people seem to have about Salvation, is "How?". How does one man save the souls of ALL people on earth? How does that make sense in terms of numbers? How is it that the penalty for ALL of our sins can be canceled out by the death and resurrection of Jesus?

Let's examine the factors involved.

First, no impurity can enter Heaven. Just one sin committed will make you impure. Having sinned only once in our lives, we are eternally separated from God, and the added - or same - punishment is eternal damnation.

Second, before Christ arrived, the Jews (God's Chosen People) would atone for their sins through the sacrifice of blood. I do not really know how that kind of atonement would work, but it seems that those judged to be righteous (and I would assume that means generally atoned for and of a good heart and love for God), would not go to Heaven, but to "Abraham's Bosom".

Third, the original Law of the Jews and the only official System of Governance and Law for them, has been, and will always be, their Theocracy. This means Rule By God. The laws given to the Jews by God were both the laws on earth for them and the spiritual laws they were bound to. They were the same. To put it in today's terms, if our laws in America were the Laws that God gave us, it would mean that not paying your taxes, or running a red light, or smoking in a non-smoking area, would not only get you in trouble with the system of law enforcement on earth, but it would also be counted as a sin in heaven.

Fourth, in the Law of the Jews (God's Law for them), you could atone for your crimes/sins, and equally as important in my mind, you could intercede in the punishment of another's crimes/sins. An understanding of intercession is crucial. If, say, you stole a loaf of bread, and (lets just make up a scenario here...) the punishment for stealing a loaf of bread is that you have a hand cut off, then I may step in and because I have not committed the same crime/sin, I can say that I want my hand cut off as a substitute for yours. In that case, you, the criminal/sinner, would obviously have to agree to the offer made by me. I can't just step in and have my hand cut off without your knowledge and acceptance, and count that as having paid your penalty. Also, numbers play a part here. If you stole two loaves of bread and the punishment is then to have two hands cut off, to intercede fully, I would have to offer up both my hands to be cut off for yours. What happens then if you stole 3? I cannot step in and have 3 hands cut off. I only have 2. You only have 2 as well, so I don't know how they would handle that...but I hope you're getting the gist of this... On Earth and in heaven, the punishments are mathematically linked. One for One. What then can I do if the total punishment for your crime is death? I would then have to give my life to intercede for yours.

Fifth, the punishments on Earth are not the same as the spiritual punishment. As you may recall, the only spiritual punishment is eternal damnation - and this is for having sinned only once. If you sin twice, the total punishment is the punishment for the first sin plus the punishment for the second sin. This is where more math starts to kick in. Remember, God is the God of Logic...


reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 07:40 PM by MagnificentTongue
An eternity (as in eternal damnation) is an infinite amount of time. Mathematically then, we need to treat eternity like its numerical equivalent (or conceptual, I guess), "Infinity". Now, what is infinity + 1? That's right, it's infinity. What's infinity times 2 (This would be the amount of time in damnation you would spend for having sinned twice)? Infinity times 2 is also infinity. What is infinity times infinity? Infinity. Infinity to the infinitieth power? Infinity. Get the idea?

So, what could I do to intercede for your sins, spiritually speaking? Well, nothing. I have sinned. Because I have sinned once (and much more than once, obviously), I am just as guilty and damned as you. If, however, I had never sinned (and original sin stemming from Adam and Eve did not exist), I could take on the one sin you've committed (let's just say you've only committed one sin), and I would be damned eternally, and you would not. What if you had committed two sins? Could I pay the penalty for BOTH of your sins, had I never sinned? Absolutely. The spiritual penalty of committing one sin is the same as having committed two, as eternal damnation + eternal damnation = eternal damnation. As a matter of fact, lets say you have committed 8,755,932,001,234 sins in your life. Could I intercede for you spiritually if I had never sinned? Yes. The math is the same. The conditions for it to work would be that I would have never sinned, and that the intercession can be done in terms of the Law - basically, the system of law under which I would intercede would actually have to have the authority or ability to be not just an Earth-law, but it would also have to be spiritual-law, which is what we find through the Law - the Theocracy - of the Jews.

So now, what if you committed an infinite number of sins (not recommended), could you be saved? Yes! The math is still the same. Would I, the person who has never sinned, be able to save two people though? Even if they had both committed an infinite number of sins? Yes! The penalty is the same. As a matter of mathematical fact, if I had never sinned, and the system of law I acted under had authority spiritually to let me intercede, I could save an infinite number of people even if they had each committed an infinite number of sins. I could intercede for them all because the penalty I would pay is the same penalty I would pay for saving just one person from one of their sins. This is why Jesus is The Perfect Lamb, the Perfect Sacrifice for all our sins. The atonement by his blood and the intercession he gives us as a gift, is mathematically perfect to save us from our sins. Also, Jesus was without what is called "original sin", as he was not conceived through the paternal bloodline of his father. In the Bible it says that sins are passed from father to child. Joseph was not biologically Jesus's father, God was. This made it possible for Jesus to be the intercedor, whereas all of the rest of us cannot be. Also, Jesus is God, and cannot be bound by the constraints of Hell...which is why He didn't stay there.

This is why I believe that although many of us who have accepted this gift - no matter how off-track we are - are still saved. You don't have to worry about not going to heaven if you sin and die before your next confession (as is/was the mentality of Catholics). Once you accept the gift of salvation, all your sins, past present and future, are forgiven. The grace of God is perfect and all-loving. You will never encounter a person on Earth whose love, grace, and mercy exceeds that of God's. He has done His part, it is now up to us to accept His love, grace, mercy, and salvation - and if we have already accepted this, then to thank God and revel in His grace and love, and to love Him back (as you should anyway, even if you had not been given or accepted salvation...because as you know...He kind of gave you everything you have already, and all of existence owes itself to Him).

I am definitely not perfect, as all of you know, and I know some of you think that I am a hypocrite. Well, I am a hypocrite. We all are. I may be worse, and I am sorry if you are of that opinion - or insight. I however do not think that my imperfections and unfitness allow me to stand on the sidelines and neglect the Great Commission - the duties I have as a Christian to speak the word. I am a horrible sinner, but my life and my heart are overjoyed by the Love, Grace, Mercy, and Perfection of God and His Plans, and this is why I am sharing what I know. So that you may feel what I feel, no matter what kind of vile sinner you think you may be. God Loves you and gives you salvation freely. You've been covered if you accept the gift. It's been mathematically proven.
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