Why Atheists are Unrelenting, page 14

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reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 01:05 AM by Saturnfly

This whole "If it makes you happy" thing really gets under my skin.

Believing in God is like having an imaginary friend. You can tell the world about it, and no one will be able to falsify your claims that your imaginary friend actually exists. How can you argue with that?

At some point in my childhood, I found it comforting to have an imaginary friend. He was a Native American Indian who I named Fish. I was a lonely kid, so I talked to him a whole bunch about little things such as how my day at school went, and told him about this boy I fancied etc. He wasn't just an imaginary friend, he was a coping mechanism.
What's the difference between my friend Fish and a religious person's friend God? They both exist to make the enabler feel less alone, less afraid about the inevitable. Me being lonely, the religious person being unable to prevent their own demise at some point in the future.

Fish didn't tell me things such as I would live forever in a magical afterlife/ kingdom. Since he was a product of my imagination, and since I was aware of that and understood the concept of death, I didn't influence him to coddle me in that way. He was simply there when required him, when I felt lonely.

God is imaginary, there is no proof of his existence, there never will be proof since you cannot prove or disprove something to exist, when it does not. There will always be that idea of "nothing is impossible", so where do we draw the line? Religion has been the biggest influence on mankind. Yet there is not a shred of evidence to support this theory, ultimately the first theory for everything before science evolved with the centuries to further enable our curious nature of understanding.

And if it's not about the evidence, or the logistics, what is it about? If religion is not logical, has no scientific foundation to support its flimsy skeleton, how can anyone invest themselves so fully into this theory?

To me God is a blanket one tucks themselves into when the world around them is frightening and unstable.
Though when you finally unwrap yourself from that warm and fluffy texture, the world is still there, as chaotic as ever.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 01:10 AM by roseandcross

I have no issue with atheism, though I personally pray to the Christian God, even if I'm not the most devout person in the world. I'm fine with atheists wanting to defend and spread their views, though I do wish more would do so politely and with tact rather than through aggressive antitheism. When one irreverently ridicules the concept of God ('grand poobah in the sky', 'sky daddy', 'imaginary friend'), or mocks highly respected religious figures (Jesus, Mohammed, etc.), not only do they make themselves look disrespectful and intolerant, they diminish thieir chances of winning others over to their line of thought.

I'm comfortable with my religion, but if an atheist was to preach to me, I would prefer them to be polite, respectful, and well-presented like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, or other dedicated religious evangelists, rather than rude, in-your-face, and sacrilegious like so many seem to be. If you want to spread atheism and the principles of secular humanism, please do so in a productive, positive way rather than through negativity and the relentless tearing down of other belief systems.

Personally, I've experienced rude antitheism myself from a former friend I no longer speak to thanks to his constant potshots at my beliefs and ridiculing of Christianity. If you feel the need to speak in support of your atheistic views, you're more than welcome to do so, but please be respectful of the beliefs I already hold, as well as my right to continue exercising and expressing them.

Regards,
R&C

edit on 7/1/13 by roseandcross because: reworded a little

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 01:20 AM by noxvita83

YAY, another Theism vs Atheism debate. This is done way too much and the same words are said over and over again. I just don't understand why. I mean, you can not prove the existence of God (or the validity of any religious belief) nor can you prove the lack of existence. Both sides have their equivalent to hell. Theists have hell or bad karma or whatever, and Atheists accuse those who are not atheist of lacking intelligence. My observation in my short time on this planet clearly states this. If you can't prove one way or another what something is, the correct answer would be "I don't know". Hence the label to adhere to logically would be agnostic. There is nothing wrong with believing or disbelieving, but since you can't prove, wouldn't it be most logical to just say, "I don't know" and then say "I think this. But since I don't know, it's okay if you think that". With that said, why don't we go to a topic of more pressing concern such as how the government is screwing us over this week?

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 01:20 AM by LesMisanthrope

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Just a different religion, and an illogical religion as it's illogical to disbelieve in something you cannot disprove. In effect, it's just as illogical to disbelieve what you cannot disprove, as it is to believe in what you can't prove, but here's the thing about faith: It operates on hope. While atheism is a religion of hopelessness, of nothingness where you are nothing, and are worth nothing and all you become and do is lost forever. You have no purpose but to live and die and be forgotten, a wasted life. A worthless life. It's a religion of negativity.

No offense but this is some of the worst logic I've ever heard. Do you 'disbelieve' there is a purple elephant orbiting the sun? If the premise is wrong, everything deduced from it is as well.

Theism is as nihilistic as it gets. Placing value on non-existent things over the real and tangible is the biggest waste, forgery and negation of life I have ever seen. It is what causes men to scream 'God is Great' before crashing themselves into buildings full of beating hearts. It is beyond negative and worthless. It is deceitful, dangerous, and wholly nihilistic.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 01:25 AM by CashStronomer

reply to post by roseandcross

Respected. But..., No matter how polite one is, be they Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Other, preaching your views and bringing it to the door step of anyone else's home, is NEVER a good idea. Politeness means nothing when its presented with disrespect, in my opinion.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 01:44 AM by TheGreazel

Greetings ATS

All the hate versus Atheists..... like they are getting blamed for the crusades , the dark ages where any smart men would be burned , or in the second world war where High ranking SS commanders would get offered a safe haven in the vatican.
I saw this docu from this girl who was pregnant because of a rape and wanted an abortion but got death treaths and was stalked by religious fanatics, very wierd behaviour from people who claim to be with god
Even Atheist dont hold all the knowledge People .... Stop pointing fingers.

Dont they teach you people in school what horrors the Church put people in Europe and the Middle East through for almost 500 years ??
Do the words Religious/Etnic Cleansing ring any bell ???
Did you even heard the Pope's speech , in wich he claims Homosexual behaviour is a Curse and we must treat it as a disease.

As a Heterosexual man i even find these accusations discusting , and basicly a delaration of war to all Humans who just want to make something out of there life no matter who they are , or on what type they are atracted to.

I even dare to say that Jesus would be oke with Uncle Joe being a bit "wierd" as most claim he loved all people.
Kinda double standards to claim religion loves all and wishes no harm but if they would hold all the power then certain etnic/religious groups would be taken out of the equation without the need to even think about it.

Please dont label all the ones that might not be Religious as Atheists.... some have moral codes in wich they do believe with actions will come consequences but also need Valid Proof of such Greatness as the existence of Presumably "God" or Anything similar.

TheGreazel.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 02:23 AM by nosacrificenofreedom

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Actually I never pushed my beliefs on anyone no matter what I believed! I never believed that athiest were any more pushy then the religious persons of the world! I believe this unrelenting outlook is more of one trying to convince ones self as opposed to another! I believe this is caused by fear and insecurity in the possibility we could be wrong! I believe we all have this fear and insecurity to one degree or another! though there are the so called claimed reasons to believe or not but the truth is far from these ideals laying beyond the hypocrasy and faith into the ethical aspects of choice! We are who we are no matter what we may believe!

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 02:59 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

As long as you're open-minded to new information and not unwilling to learn new things...

Are you?

When thinking about the premise of a god and of religion there have been many times when I've said, "Hmm, how can this be if there is no god?" But, common sense always wins the day.

I've probably watched every atheist vs. religious debate on youtube. One of the most compelling arguments I've ever heard for a god is the premise of a finely tuned universe. But, even this argument, if true, would point to a creator and nothing more. Meaning that a creator is not a magical being of perfection, but someone or some thing with enough intelligence to create a universe. I say, if true, because I have my own arguments that point to a natural cause.

Would I readily admit the existence of a god if the evidence (MY interpretation of solid 'evidence') were presented to me? Of course, but then that would make this god guilty of crimes against humanity. If we have the right to love a god, or to hate a god, then we have the right to judge a god. If possible, this god would be sentenced to death a million times over by any court of law in the land.

edit on 1/7/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 03:03 AM by jiggerj

reply to post by LPOPranger

I have a 5 month old and she “MELTS” me with her smile!

If only they could stay that way!

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 03:26 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

As long as you're open-minded to new information and not unwilling to learn new things...

Are you?

Are YOU open-minded? Can you see the logic in a previous statement of mine?

Consider that if god didn't want to forgive sins, would the crucifixion of Jesus FORCE god to forgive sins? Of course not, because god is GOD. So, the death of Jesus meant absolutely nothing.

Going on the premise that god is real, no physical act would have forced him to forgive sins. So, Jesus could simply have said, "God will now forgive sins."

If there was no reason for Jesus to die, it means that the very foundation of Christianity is false.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 03:36 AM by jiggerj

reply to post by Snsoc

Therefore, you have said that there is no God. You cannot make such an assertion without evidence.

The atheist 'claim' is that YOU can't prove the existence of a god. WE cannot prove a negative with a negative because it can't be done on any topic. Until such time as you can do this, we will always claim the right to say that there is no god.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 03:42 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by jiggerj

Jigger you have no proof that God does not exist. That makes your dis belief in God a faith based religion. Now what ?
edit on 6-1-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

It's not true! It is NOT true! Excuse me for a minute. I'll be right back.

Oh, Un heavenly Hitchins, who no longer exists in any dimension, please forgive them for they know not what they spew.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 04:04 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Dear jiggerj,

Just remember Jigger, if there is a universal principal of friendship and fellowship, and love, then somewhere down the line, if there is a God, he might say "hello" but then it will be YOU who will say "I never knew you" to which he would say a second time, "hello" to which you'll say "I don't believe in you" - and then where will you be?

Therefore, in the name of friendship and as the hand of God sent here ("as my father hath sent me even so send I you") to extend that hand of friendship and say to you, even on behalf of the love of God in Jesus Christ the Lord - Hello!

I just hope you'll accept it, in this life, that introduction and free invitation, to prepare you for something even better in the life to come.

You are not alone.

Seeing as you have made yourself a representative of your god, would you mind telling him that he is not allowed to listen to my every thought. When I am alone, what I do is my business and none of his. He is not allowed into my bathroom when I am in there, and if I am not modestly dressed to open the door for human company, then he is to stay out too. Thnx!

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 06:28 AM by Nina2010

reply to post by jiggerj

I am trying to understand why athiest care. I am a christian and athiest seem to be more obsessed with God to the point where I think it is unhealthy.

There is a thin line between love and hate and I think that at any given moment athiest can become nutty religious people. they have all the tools and behavior traits that would make them perfect religious nutts.

I place nutty religious people and athiest in the same bag as they have the same irrational behavior.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 08:00 AM by Beavers

reply to post by CashStronomer

So if chemicals are A LOT smarter than one of mankind's current forefront technologies, why am I having this discussion with you rather than them?

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 08:23 AM by logical7

reply to post by jiggerj

Seeing as you have made yourself a representative of your god, would you mind telling him that he is not allowed to listen to my every thought. When I am alone, what I do is my business and none of his. He is not allowed into my bathroom when I am in there, and if I am not modestly dressed to open the door for human company, then he is to stay out too. Thnx!

do lab rats get to choose what experiment they will be a part of or demand privacy? They may think all they want that its their skills of pressing a lever that makes food appear but the fact still remain facts. I dont claim that God exists or not. But if He does then dont you think your statements are arrogant? Either that or you are absolutely sure that there is no God and so you are being arrogant to 'nobody.'
how wise is it to spend your energies to offend 'nobody' unless your intention is to be offending to the believers in that 'nobody.'

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 08:34 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom

Actually I never pushed my beliefs on anyone no matter what I believed! I never believed that athiest were any more pushy then the religious persons of the world! I believe this unrelenting outlook is more of one trying to convince ones self as opposed to another!

I can only think you've missed A LOT of the message traffic around here. There have certainly been a few Christian folk that have been pushy here too, don't get me wrong. The Anti-Religion types that seem to identify atheist as often as not (We won't get into the pure ignorance of plenty who wouldn't know the terms properly with a dictionary to aid them) are the posts I see that seek out and really bend over backwards to find threads where anyone presents religion in a positive light. It's really become a major problem in fact, to my thinking. Almost enough to say something about publicly at times.

Now in the real world? Atheists tend to keep a profile far more in line with their general number in society. Noticeable enough to know that segment exists like any other but far from pushy about it. Not in person. Then again, I live in what could accurately be defined as the pin in the buckle of the Bible Belt. (Yeah...fun place for my Faith..Trust me. lol). This is an area where you still have plenty of cowboy types who really ARE on working farms of one type or another during the day or grew up that way and actually DO go to the bars regularly as much for bar fighting as drinking. Pushy religion here would likely get more than hurt feelings.

So real world and online are certainly very different worlds.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 08:52 AM by TheConstruKctionofLight

reply to post by logical7

from Logical ... do lab rats get to choose what experiment they will be a part of or demand privacy? They may think all they want that its their skills of pressing a lever that makes food appear but the fact still remain facts. I dont claim that God exists or not. But if He does then dont you think your statements are arrogant? Either that or you are absolutely sure that there is no God and so you are being arrogant to 'nobody.' how wise is it to spend your energies to offend 'nobody' unless your intention is to be offending to the believers in that 'nobody.'

Ok here's where you're missing the point...so many christians take the stand in many discussions of shutting their minds and then saying "...I'll pray for your soul anyway brother" ergo 1) how can a xtian pray for the us the unwashed and call us brothers when that term is used exclusively for fellow church members in the new testament 2) I as unique individual, a free moral agent take offence when someone suggest they'll prays for me because ( and you can deny it till you're blue in the face ) you have already judged me according your erroneous interpretation of Christs message

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 09:01 AM by logical7

Originally posted by TheConstruKctionofLight
reply to post by logical7

from Logical ... do lab rats get to choose what experiment they will be a part of or demand privacy? They may think all they want that its their skills of pressing a lever that makes food appear but the fact still remain facts. I dont claim that God exists or not. But if He does then dont you think your statements are arrogant? Either that or you are absolutely sure that there is no God and so you are being arrogant to 'nobody.' how wise is it to spend your energies to offend 'nobody' unless your intention is to be offending to the believers in that 'nobody.'

Ok here's where you're missing the point...so many christians take the stand in many discussions of shutting their minds and then saying "...I'll pray for your soul anyway brother" ergo 1) how can a xtian pray for the us the unwashed and call us brothers when that term is used exclusively for fellow church members in the new testament 2) I as unique individual, a free moral agent take offence when someone suggest they'll prays for me because ( and you can deny it till you're blue in the face ) you have already judged me according your erroneous interpretation of Christs message

i completely agree. If any theist/xtian wants to pray then ofcourse they are free to pray for anyone but they dont have to tell it. By telling it they are conciously or unconciously taking a moral high ground and wanting to feel and look good.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 09:18 AM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by Nina2010

There is a thin line between love and hate and I think that at any given moment athiest can become nutty religious people. they have all the tools and behavior traits that would make them perfect religious nutts.

I place nutty religious people and athiest in the same bag as they have the same irrational behavior.

I have not yet seen an atheist outshine a Westboro Baptist member.