Old Testament names in Afghanistan and Pakistan and the case of the Muslim Israelites., page 1

Old Testament names in Afghanistan and Pakistan and the case of the Muslim Israelites., page

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Topic started on 5-1-2013 @ 04:59 AM by sk0rpi0n

"The Afghan tribes, among whom the Jews have lived for generations, are Moslems who retain to this day their amazing tradition about their descent from the Ten Tribes. It is an ancient tradition, and one not without some historical plausibility... if the Afghan tribes persistently adhere to the tradition that they were once Hebrews and in course of time embraced Islam, and there is not an alternative tradition also existent among them, they are certainly Jewish."
- Itzhak Ben-Zvi, second President of Israel
"The Exiled and the Redeemed"

I've previously made a thread or two about the Israelite heritage of the Pashtun tribes living in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It would be useful to refer to this video for a brief background on this matter.

If you don't have the time for it, you can skim through this thread where I have elaborated on the same subject.

Until now, I thought that the similarities between Pashtun and Israelite names were limited to the more popular Israelite tribe names. But recently I came across a document that had a rather long list of obscure biblical names (of people and places) among Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and Pakistan (especially in the isolated Federally administered tribal regions )

Here are just a few random names I picked from H to M. The actual list in the document is even longer.

Israelite: Helek
Pashtun : Halaka (Afg)
Verse : Numbers 26:30

Israelite: Hothir
Pashtun : Hotar (Pak)
Verse : 1Chron 25:2

Israelite: Hezron
Pashtun : Hazro (Afg)
Verse : 1Chron 4:1

Israelite : Ibleam
Pashtun : Ibalam (Afg)
Verse : Joshua 17:11

Israelite : Idalah
Pashtun : Idal-Khel (Pak)
Verse: Joshua 19:15

Israelite: Imnah
Pashtun : Imni-Khel (Afg)
Verse : 2 Chron 31:14

Israelite: Jassau
Pashtun : Jassaul (Pakistan)
Verse : Ezra 10:37

Israelite: Jakan
Pashtun : Jakan (Afg)
Verse : 1Chron 1:42

Israelite: Kohath
Pashtun : Kohat (Pak)
Verse : 1Chron 1:42

Israelite: Lecah
Pashtun : Lekah-Shewey (Afg)
Verse : 1Chron 1:42

Israelite: Machir
Pashtun : Machar-Beh (Pak)
Verse : Numbers 26:29

Israelite: Mahlah
Pashtun : Mahli (Pak)
Verse : Numbers 36:11

Those were just a few. The actual list is much, much longer. The large number of obscure Biblical names in Pashtun territory is evidence that the Pashtuns had an Israelite past. If anybody is interested in the entire document, let me know. I will gladly upload it.

Prophetic implications
Another thing to note is that Islamic eschatology apparently teaches that it would be the Muslim Israelites who would be playing a major role in the end times battles. At first, a "Muslim Israelite" army might seem like a fantasy.... but the Israelite history of the Pashtuns (numbering in the millions) shows that its very real. This is indeed proof that Allah is the God of the Bible who exiled the Israelites in the first place. These Muslim Israelites would be led by the most famous Israelite of all.... Jesus.

9/11 could be the beginning of the end. The war in Afghanistan involves these Muslim Israelites... so the Western forces are basically involved in a war with people descended from the Israelites. How will it end? God knows best.

Amazingly, even bible prophecy itself indicates that the Israelites would become one with present day Muslim regions.

In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth.
-Isaiah 19:24

All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you, the rams of Nebaioth will serve you; they will be accepted as offerings on my altar, and I will adorn my glorious temple.
-Isaiah 60:7

Just like how Ishmael and Isaac, first 2 sons of Abraham reunited for Abrahams funeral.... it appears that Ishmael and Isaac will once again be united... in worship of the One true God.

God knows best.

edit on 5-1-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 05:56 AM by shivaX

Biblical prophecy states that Russia, Iran, Turkey, and Allies Will Attack and Invade Israel

Ezekiel 38:1-10 . . . "Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, ‘Son of man, set your face against Gog (a powerful leader), of the land of Magog (translated 'Scythia' in Greek ... the area of modern day RUSSIA), the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, (Meshech and Tubal are in and around TURKEY) and prophesy against him, and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Behold, I am against you, O Gog (a powerful human or dark-angelic leader behind Russia), the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. (Turkey) I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws (Israel's Leviathan gas fields, mutual defense treaty, or UN effort?) and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords (weapons). (The Russian army will march again) Persia (IRAN), (Iran is listed first, meaning it will be the 'lead' ally) Ethiopia (Sudan ..."Cush"), and Libya (northern Africa) are with them, all of them with shield and helmet. Gomer and all its troops; (Germany-France, eastern Europe, or "Galatia"- Turkey) the house of Togarmah (Armenia) from the far north and all its troops - many people are with you. (NATO member Turkey will join this coalition) Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. (Russia will act as a "guard" ... and supplier of weapons) After many days you will be visited. (Meaning, this would happen far from Ezekiel's time) In the LATTER YEARS you (Russia-Iran-Turkey) will come into the land of those brought back from the sword (Israel!) and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate (this war will take place after Israel became a nation in 1948) they (the children of Israel) were brought OUT of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely. You will ascend, coming like a storm, (they may attack from the air, or from the south, or both) covering the land (of Israel) like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you." (Ezekiel 38:1-10)

BIBILICAL PROPHECY

reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:01 AM by sk0rpi0n

reply to post by shivaX

Biblical prophecy states that Russia, Iran, Turkey, and Allies Will Attack and Invade Israel

Not sure what it has to do with the OPs subject.
Bible prophecy also repeatedly states that Israel will be severely punished.

The modern state of Israel is NOT the restored Israel. Just like how the false Christ appears before the real one, the modern state of Israel is the false Israel that has appeared before the true restored Israel.

reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:06 AM by shivaX

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Yup it says the the state of Israel will be punished but it also says that it will win in the end.

And regarding if modern Israel is the old Israel or not, it is a matter of opinion. We can never be sure about it.

Anyways good luck with your thread.

edit on 5-1-2013 by shivaX because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 06:26 AM by sk0rpi0n

reply to post by shivaX

Yup it says the the state of Israel will be punished but it also says that it will win in the end.

The victory is only for the believers and the righteous... its not a "victory" for a particular country.
Israel is also identified as one of the main "villains" in prophecy. But most people still believe that its the "hero".

And regarding if modern Israel is the old Israel or not, it is a matter of opinion. We can never be sure about it.

We can easily deduct that its not the Israel that was to be restored.
Because nowhere in the bible do we see that Israel would be restored as a hotbed for gay tourism and a nearly 30% atheist population.... which mocks Jesus on national TV.

They have been set up for punishment.

reply posted on 5-1-2013 @ 02:42 PM by ntech

Some random thoughts for the thread.

Prophesy of Genesis 48 and 49. Basically put it states that Israel was supposed to become a multitude of nations by the end times. So could there be Muslim Israelites? Yes. Probably they all are.

Also the Romans 11 prophesy figures into the problem as well. If you look at the whole New Covenant issue what you have is that Christians are adopted Israelites.

So between the genetic and the adoption issues it would appear that most as in 90% plus of all Muslims would be Israelites by now.

Another problem. Somebody is coming. After looking at the issue I figured this out. According to the book of Malachi the job of Messiah in the first century AD was supposed to have been a 3 or a 4 man job.

Malachi 3 KJV
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Also

Malachi 4 KJV
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Now the problem is who are the messengers. And that is answered in the book of Zechariah.

Zechariah 4
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

Zechariah 6
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

The messengers would appear to be the Branches. The two olive trees. And as such the one Branch has yet to show up to build the 3rd temple. And the Branches play a role in Revelation.

Revelation 7
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

On your point about Israel being severely punished that's true. But. According to the Leviticus 26 compact they can never be totally destroyed and killed off. But this is what Zechariah says.

Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

reply posted on 6-1-2013 @ 03:19 AM by sk0rpi0n

reply to post by ntech

Prophesy of Genesis 48 and 49. Basically put it states that Israel was supposed to become a multitude of nations by the end times. So could there be Muslim Israelites? Yes. Probably they all are.

Not Israel. But the seed of Abraham. The original promise was given to Abraham.
The promise made to Abraham has come true by the number of Arabs.

On your point about Israel being severely punished that's true. But. According to the Leviticus 26 compact they can never be totally destroyed and killed off. But this is what Zechariah says.

They won't be destroyed.... but they will be severely punished. Only a part of them will remain.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 06:14 AM by ntech

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Actually the Genesis 48 and 49 prophesy came awhile after Abraham. Approximately one to two hundred years roughly. So then the problem is can Jacob/Israel be considered a valid prophet?

As to your other point. Genesis is a Jewish book. And argues that Genesis 17 that Sarah was the mother of the child of promise. Also that the covenant wasn't actually committed to until after the birth of Ishmael. Admittedly the Koran holds things differently so that's an argument that God himself may have to answer to after the end times.

Though there is an issue there Muslims need to answer to. If Ishmael was the child of promise then why did God wait like 3000 years before sending Mohammad? Why all the drama with Israel? From Moses to Jesus they were all Jews and Israelites.

3000 years after Abraham was a long time to wait for a prophet to the chosen people. So there is something amiss with that claim.

reply posted on 7-1-2013 @ 09:40 AM by sk0rpi0n

reply to post by ntech

As to your other point. Genesis is a Jewish book.

Genesis is a book held sacred by the Jews.... but its not a book BY the Jews. Because it speaks of personalities who existed before the first Jew.

And argues that Genesis 17 that Sarah was the mother of the child of promise. Also that the covenant wasn't actually committed to until after the birth of Ishmael. Admittedly the Koran holds things differently so that's an argument that God himself may have to answer to after the end times.

Though there is an issue there Muslims need to answer to. If Ishmael was the child of promise then why did God wait like 3000 years before sending Mohammad?

As for the child of promise, the Koran is silent on that matter. And the bible tells us there was never a time when Isaac was Abrahams "only" son. Maybe it was Isaac... maybe it was Ishmael. It doesn't really matter in the larger picture. Because many muslims believe the covenant was made with Isaac... which explains why the Muslims believe an Israelite(Jesus) is their Messiah. So its not exactly an Ishmael vs Isaac argument.

Why all the drama with Israel? From Moses to Jesus they were all Jews and Israelites.

From Moses to Jesus. Not the other big players in the Old Testament. Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc were all non-Israelite.... yet had monotheistic beliefs that were not exactly Jewish.
Their religion was a very early form of Islam.

But yes, there is some "drama" with Israel because even Islam teaches that a group of Israelites who turned Muslim are to play a major role in end time events. Its obvious that Islam is not an Arab-centric religion.

So going back to the OP, the large number of Israelite muslims living in Afghanistan and Pakistan should be considered seriously.

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