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Who will nonmilitary Americans outside the US vote for?

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posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:41 PM
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I have been talking to a well educated and well connected American who lives here who said that from his contacts overseas Americans will predominantly vote for Kerry.

Is this the same for people here?

He said that when you are outside the country the jingoism means less, and the propaganda and cold hard facts are more obvious.

Also votes from overseas americans are counted last and may play a part in deciding if the election is as close as its expected to be.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Netchicken]




posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:54 PM
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The WORLD supports Kerry, except for Saudi Arabia, they support Bandar Bush, I mean the president. The world knows that Bush will kill us all, Kerry will try to not kill us all.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:28 PM
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A 50/50 split of the expats I am acquainted with through my father's business. However, most of the Kerry supporters DO NOT normally vote in US elections, but will be for the first time this year.

Looks like the American expatriates vote will benefit Kerry to a much greater degree.



edited for spelling and to deny MA any further amusement..


[edit on 10/26/04 by Bleys]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:41 PM
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NC

Your source is reliable and unlike Bush, does not speak with forked tongue.

Bleys

"Expatriot" is a funny malapropism.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:46 PM
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A week ago there was a show on CNN about Americans living here in Europe and most, if not all, Americans on that show said they'll be voting for Kerry.

Apparently our anti-Bushism is contagious.

Will it make a difference in the upcoming elections? I doubt it.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:51 PM
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My own ex-pat sources have basically told me that they support Kerry for the simple fact they have gotten alot of harrassment by people since the bush years. they have considered returning home because its not worth it anymore. My old army friend, who is overseas now as a civilian has said that if Bush wins, she definitely will return home, as she figures her situation will not improve. She is voting for kerry. not because she lieks him, but hopes maybe since the international community favors him, it might make life easier for Americans abroad.

So id have to say, ex-patriates seem to favor kerry because of the nightmare Bush has created for Americans abroad.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:56 PM
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My contacts are very anti-Bush. They think he's a chimp and has made things much more dangerous abroad. I have to say, I wouldn't feel nearly as safe as I once did.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 02:37 AM
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Don't you mean chump?

Most people are saying they'd like to see Bush go but hate thier main key option is Kerry......Gotta say I agree with them. A few are saying a pre Bush Jnr Powell could have got thier vote, but he's tainted he's toast now.

And they are not necessarily supportive of calls to pull out of Iraq or the WoT.

I'm talking the handful of Americans I know.

BTW

And why specify non military types -those who have served or are serving.

In the west, in uniform the only political voice they are supposed to have in the same right as everyone else in the democracies.....to vote.

They are not allowed to influence politics directly as in some less developed and undemocratic nations (not all at once folks.....I know what your going to say about some of those countries and to a degree I agree).

Only we ex service types and the more respected and recognised ones at that are allowed to advocate as groups and private citizens for the services, in the same way as any other community based interest group, and we are a darn sight less successful at it than most.....because people are so apathetic to the issue most other occassions......

and I am not talking on just defence issues but a wide range of things that effect veterans.....welfare, housing, education and health amongst others.



[edit on 27-10-2004 by craigandrew]



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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These are really interesting answers. We see a sub population apparantly randomly selected from the main population has possibly a signifigent difference in their voting tendancies.

So outside of the pressure cooker, jingoism, propaganda, and hype of the American campaign, people with supposedly the same backgrounds and socialization, are reaching different conclusions as to who should be president.

I deliberatly excluded military personel, as they are often in closed communities, and therefore "small USA's", subject to the same, if not worse, attempts at persuasion than the average citizen.

(Mind you upon reflection the fact that they are NOT in America may mean that it is a self selected, and therefore non random sample. )

[edit on 27-10-2004 by Netchicken]



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 04:38 AM
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Well maybe its just because of the industry I am in but every american I work wth has voted Bush. I think the fact that so many amercans are voting Kerry because of european/non Amercan reaction is sad. I meet just as many people who hate bush and look down on me because I support him but I don't care. Yes western europe is more hostile to americans but so what? Thats thier problem. I just think its sad that so many expats are so weak minded. I mean when I got transfered here I expected it to be hard it is a foregn country after all.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
These are really interesting answers. We see a sub population apparantly randomly selected from the main population has possibly a signifigent difference in their voting tendancies.

So outside of the pressure cooker, jingoism, propaganda, and hype of the American campaign, people with supposedly the same backgrounds and socialization, are reaching different conclusions as to who should be president.

I deliberatly excluded military personel, as they are often in closed communities, and therefore "small USA's", subject to the same, if not worse, attempts at persuasion than the average citizen.

(Mind you upon reflection the fact that they are NOT in America may mean that it is a self selected, and therefore non random sample. )

[edit on 27-10-2004 by Netchicken]


Not quite the way you think.

Its not like Ex-Pats are "influenced" by the Jingoism and propoganda of their host nations.

Its more like a case, since their lives, work, ect, takes them abroad, that Bush's actions has put their lives and well being in danger, because alot of the reactions, and possible future reactions, of outsiders.

My cousin, who currently is working for Microsoft in Europe (think he got transfered to belguim a while back, not sure) and is considering comming home. Seems alot of Ex=Pats have been considering comming home alot more.

They dont like Bush, but it seems I am not hearing alot of love for kerry either.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 12:32 PM
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Guess who I'm voting for as a overseas non military american






posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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as mentioned by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
They dont like Bush, but it seems I am not hearing alot of love for kerry either.

(emphasis my own doing)

Your honesty was refreshing...thank you for it.




seekerof



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

as mentioned by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
They dont like Bush, but it seems I am not hearing alot of love for kerry either.

(emphasis my own doing)

Your honesty was refreshing...thank you for it.




seekerof


No problem, Just trying to show an objective view.

I do know alot of people I know overseas, old military buddies, friends, family, regardless of who they are voting for, seem to want to come home anyway, even kerry supporters, because the mostly subtle, but sometimes not, anti-American feeling is starting to take its toll on them emotionally and socially. In many cases, its just a matter of being homesick.

Theres alot of different views out there, i cant account for them all. i only know the people I know overseas, and most of them want to come home, especially my friends hwo have kids.

So i doubt they are all in love with kerry much, even as Bush may piss them off. I do know this: even my friends who do indeed support Bush dont tell anyone over there they do. My cousin, who is slightly conservative, favors bush more than Kerry for a few reasons, he once made the mistake of discussing his views over lunch one day with some business guys from a local software outfit. They all but went off on him, nagging and lecturing him about not believing the American media (which he didnt have all that much access too there, watching mostly BBC) and that he needed to wake up and look beyond his borders, ect.

After that, he never tells people who he supports, shrugging at the question. He told my uncle that saying anything positive about Bush garners about the same reaction as one would get in the US for openly supporting and embracing the merits of communism.

No wonder he wnats to come home.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 01:15 PM
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I havent been feeling the heat that some Americans say they feel in Europe. I guess because I dont get out much, but Im pretty sure that I will not be voting for bush...

Wait strike what I said about the heat, I have felt abit warm here lately though, people here seem to be pretty jittery about the up coming elections. Couple of days ago I had to sit and listen to a group ramble on and on their opinions, positions and general yadda yadda. This was the result of them asking me which state I was raised in and that would be Texas. They preceded to stealthy bash anything Bush and often tried to pry from me if I held any of his ideas. It was very annoying and all I wanted was to eat my schnitzel.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 01:22 PM
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I think this is the first American election I have followed where the outcome has stirred up so many non Americans. Usually reactions seem on par with the Australain, or british elections, "it would be good if (insert name here) won, but life won't end", type comments.

Bushes actions over the last 4 years have inflamed world opinion around him, just look at Skadi's comments about her freinds wanting to come home. I doubt such emotion existed 4 years earlier.

I don't think its "pro kerry" fervor, but "anti Bush" If kerry wins its not because he is the best, but just because he is not GW Bush. Sort of a hollow victory really.

Check this thread at slate slate.msn.com...


'm voting for Kerry, with no great belief that he will be a first-rate president. I cringe a little at where Kerry's line on terror and Iraq has lately ended up. I think that Bush, in his rhetoric about democracy and ideologies of hate, has demonstrated a broader understanding of these matters. But Bush has got to be the most ham-handed president in American history. He is incompetent even at expressing whatever is valid in his larger worldview. The prospect of tumbling down the stairs for four more years has got me scared out of my wits. Better Kerry, then.


This seems to be the predoninate attitude I have seen outside the US....



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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Check out this...
here


The tight race between Republican President George W. Bush and his Democratic rival John Kerry is being closely followed by the four to 10 million Americans living overseas. Democratic and Republican activists say they are witnessing record turnouts at their vote drives and rallies

This sort of confirms what we hve been saying...

Nancy Bush Ellis, President Bush's aunt, was at the Republican rally in Paris. Like many others, she says the expatriate vote could help determine who wins in November.

"It certainly does make a difference. So many states were close last time, and a few votes made a difference. So they are after every vote they can get," she says.



[edit on 27-10-2004 by Netchicken]



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 01:37 PM
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Youre right netchicken.

Four years ago, people still bashed Americans, still pestered them, but it wasnt anything really worth note, and nothing terribly bothersome. easy to tune out. Most Americans I knew, myself included, before Bush, wanted to come home primarily because of homesicknesses and difficulty adjusting to different standards of living. But as far as peoples attitudes went, they did not figure in much. I amde enough german friends, amongst other nationalities, that there really wasnt so much an issue.

Now, on top of battling homesickness and culture shock, many Americans abroad are getting alot of flak and heat from persons in their host countries, further alienating them. Those who want to stay abroad longer for whatever reason will probably vote for kerry, hoping this will lessen the anti American sentiments a bit, others will simply say, well screw you, im going home.

In only 4 years time, we go from simple homesickness to utter social misery and discomfort. Four years and a single presidency. A real shame too, because a couple of my friends really used to enjoy living abroad and going new places. Something thats no longer pleasant.

It wont even be an election focused on the issues that really matter to the country, which is sad. This is the first election i have seen the issues totally ignored and barely mentioned at all. Its come down to "Bush or kerry"....pick your killer.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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In only 4 years time, we go from simple homesickness to utter social misery and discomfort.


I have lived in Germany for about 4 years now and in that time I have missed home and the people I know. I have become more introverted in the last couple of years though, I dont talk about politics (unless I want to get in a fight
) or go out in the evenings so much. And I am not sure it if is the result of being around some negative folks or just being homesick, maybe its both. But I think I know how your friends feel Skadi.



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