Has the US government lost control over its budget?

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posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 09:54 PM
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The recent fiscal cliff drama and a US economy just plodding along with mediocre job growth and continued trillion dollar deficits might suggest so.

I just want to ask this forum, do you think the US government has lost control over its budget?

To pre-empt the discussion with some thoughts, I cite the article from CNBC:

CEOs Pan Fiscal Cliff Deal, Vow to Continue Debt Fight


"I think this deal's a disaster," said Peter Huntsman, chief executive of chemical producer Huntsman Corp.

"We're just living in a fantasy land. We're borrowing more and more money. This did absolutely nothing to address the fundamental issue of the debt cliff."

Former Wells Fargo CEO Dick Kovacevich said the agreement confirms that Washington and both parties are totally out of control.

"I think it's a joke," Kovacevich said of the deal. "It's stunning to me that after working on this for months and supposedly really getting to work in the last 30 days that this is what you come up with."



The final deal contained no meaningful spending cuts and adds trillions to the deficit, compared to the budget savings that would have occurred if the extreme measures of the cliff had kicked in.

It also set up another cliff of sorts in two months. That's when the nation is expected to hit its borrowing limit, and when the across-the-board spending cuts known as "sequestration" are now scheduled kick in.



Some in the business community are calling for a change in strategy due to the meager results of the fiscal cliff deal.

"It doesn't work talking to the politicians, obviously," former Wells CEO Kovacevich said. "What we've got to do is educate the American public that our country is going to hell."


So where to from here? No politician, republican or democrat, is likely to tighten fiscal policy to the point of reducing the deficit in any significant manner. I'm surprised there hasn't been any more downgrades, with exception of Moody's just advising more will need to be done if the negative rating is to change.

After some chatter about some members of the Fed Reserve calling for a tightening of the monetary policy, I now understand that even that view has already been drawn back some after the jobs report indicated sluggish labor market growth with the November UE rate revised up from 7.7 per cent to 7.8 per cent and the December UE rate remaining at 7.8 per cent - going in the opposite direction from the Fed's goal of achieving a UE rate of 6.5 per cent before it tightens its policy.

So then, looks like more and more spending, money printing and deficits into seeming eternity at this rate. Oh and how about one trillion dollar coin in discussion? A potentially inflationary trigger there?




posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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They lost it back when Bush was elected.

That was back in the 90's.

Catch up bro.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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I honestly think that the politicians really don`t care. They know that they can quit or retire at anytime they want and will live the rest of their lives very comfortably regardless of what happens to the economy.
I truly believe that they don`t really care how much debt that they put this country into because it won`t effect them.
edit on 4-1-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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Yep and I should of added too, getting control over the budget would have massive adverse social and economic effects. It could well be a situation that is beyond repair, but will only continue until such time that even this system implodes.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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The US has Budget Problems?

Are you Sure?

I thought THE ONLY PROBLEM the US faces at the moment is violation of the 2ND AMENDMENT?

Forget the Rising Inflation, Unemployment, Homelessness, Veteran Suisides and National Debt - The Right to Bear Arms is all that Matters.

Priorities Man Priorities!



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by Pedro4077
The US has Budget Problems?

Are you Sure?

I thought THE ONLY PROBLEM the US faces at the moment is violation of the 2ND AMENDMENT?

Forget the Rising Inflation, Unemployment, Homelessness, Veteran Suisides and National Debt - The Right to Bear Arms is all that Matters.

Priorities Man Priorities!



Strange how the anti-gun agenda doesn't seem to care about all of that stuff huh?



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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The U.S. Federal Government would have to PASS a budget before they could be said to lose control of it. There hasn't been a proper budget passed now since 2009 when Bush's last written budget was passed as a carry-over from his administration. Everything since has ranged from Pelosi's "Deem and Pass" nonsense to stop gap deals, spending bills and authorizations.

A budget would be a wonderful thing to have. Most folks think of it as a list of what CAN be spent. It also functions as the lines the Government must color inside of. Without one? Well... That national debt is something else since '08, isn't it? Of course, nothing quite like hearing the Treasury Secretary himself question why the House of Representatives should even retain control of the Debt Ceiling limit. Then again, when budgets aren't even being attempted beyond one both parties killed unanimously and gave up ... I guess even that insane idea can seen to have some basis.


In fiscal terms, we're in so much trouble now I literally wouldn't know where to start. Perhaps by saying the Constitution outlines almost nothing in specific, ongoing tasks and duties that MUST be done down to how and in what general time.......except the Budget. That's spelled out in detail...and we're going into the 4th year of flagrant violation of it.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by Frankenchrist
They lost it back when Bush was elected.

That was back in the 90's.

Catch up bro.


This started way before Bush took office he didn't help it any but he isn't the one that started it. Reagan is the one who really threw this country to the dogs.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by Pedro4077
The US has Budget Problems?

Are you Sure?

I thought THE ONLY PROBLEM the US faces at the moment is violation of the 2ND AMENDMENT?

Forget the Rising Inflation, Unemployment, Homelessness, Veteran Suisides and National Debt - The Right to Bear Arms is all that Matters.

Priorities Man Priorities!




Strange how the anti-gun agenda doesn't seem to care about all of that stuff huh?




I acually agree with your 2nd Amendment - But as long as the world ecconomy trades on the US Petro-Dollar, we will all crash and burn with your coming financial apocalypse .

You Amricans need to Focus on the real issues that affect every man, woman and child in the US - Not just the "From my Cold Dead Hands" crowd.

edit on 4-1-2013 by Pedro4077 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:38 PM
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This country was lost on December 23, 1913.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:54 PM
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Yes...



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


There you go Wrabbit - beating me to the punch again!

When was the last time we had a budget that actually included the off-the-books "War on Terror" costs?

And which Bush is the OP talking about in the 90's? George the First?


ganjoa



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by Pedro4077
The US has Budget Problems?

Are you Sure?

I thought THE ONLY PROBLEM the US faces at the moment is violation of the 2ND AMENDMENT?

Forget the Rising Inflation, Unemployment, Homelessness, Veteran Suisides and National Debt - The Right to Bear Arms is all that Matters.

Priorities Man Priorities!


Ever heard of multitasking? Shezzy.

They way they are running the money end of this country is all the more reason to buy an assult rifle if you ask me.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by ganjoa
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


There you go Wrabbit - beating me to the punch again!

When was the last time we had a budget that actually included the off-the-books "War on Terror" costs?

And which Bush is the OP talking about in the 90's? George the First?


ganjoa


You need to check in with Bill Clinton as well when it comes to off the books terror wars ect.....dahhh and Obama if your going to call the Bushes in on that. Where in the h#ll have you been?

Lets talk welfare and social security fraud, education spending fraud.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by ganjoa
 

You know, the thing is...In researching and creating the thread I had linked in my sig until recently, I spent a few weeks all over and in the federal budget. Now, we haven't have a formal one passed since Bush's carry-over in '09, true. However, the 2013 Fiscal Year proposed budget from the White House showed what WAS actually spent as totals from 2011 going back. They keep track after the fact even if they don't pass a road map to get there in advance anymore.

The numbers add up... Across the line, they all total out and add up just as their supposed to. Off-the-books is real enough, no question. It's COMPLETELY off the books though. I mean, it's not some clever diversion of tax money because all that IS traceable and accountable to the last dollar, for what that's worth and in a number of directions. Think Golden Triangle funding for "off-the-books" in Vietnam and funding for Central American operations in the 80's...for how I'd suspect this is working and the T&C prevents that from being elaborated on.

I know the revenue to spending add up. I ran it several ways over those weeks....looking for that hole that I could just list as "Classified" or "Other" on a graphics board. No such animal, as such...and I wouldn't be surprised if someone doubted that. I've been called an outright liar by more than one. (It's why I source and link things to DEATH... The truth is real hard to believe) Math is math though and as much as I hate math on one hand, I love it on the other because it's the most honorable language in existence. It can't lie. People can try, but math doesn't know how to maintain the lie in the end.


Official war spending for both Afghanistan AND Iraq combined came to roughly 1.1 Trillion Dollars by 2011. That makes about 100 Billion per year in spending, on average, since the wars began in November of 2001. The outlay to direct military spending within DOD (as opposed to benefits, Nuclear related, infrastructure, foreign aid etc etc) is running around $700 Billion per year and steadily coming down.

Roughly 100 Billion per year for wars. with 700+ billion for overall operational military spending. The wars aren't even running a 1/4 of the Pentagon's spending. As much as they cost, that should show how far into crazy town the numbers have really gone here.....and for what it's worth, that's pretty constant from 2001 to 2013. Change in Presidents didn't change much there...despite the President having the ability over that area of Defense as the Commander in Chief by Statutory power.

To get right down to the brass tacks though? The numbers don't even begin to jive in suggesting military spending...even 100% of the ENTIRE Pentagon budget taken together...is what created our deficits. In fact the highest Military spending for the the wars while under George Bush saw annual budget decifits less than 50% of the LOWEST we've seen since this Admin took office and 2013 is on track with Qe-3 and Operation twist to BREAK 2 TRILLION DOLLARS in a ONE YEAR deficit number. (Those two programs alone..since just Sept. add 1 Trillion per year to deficit! ! !) The ongoing U.S. Budget Deficit is what has doomed us and it's been doubled down on...again and again in the past 4+ years and going back to the last SURPLUS year in 2001 from Clinton, to be really honest.

Bush made it, Obama improved it to a science and near work of modern art.


Happy New Year

edit on 5-1-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: Added DOD total pending / alternate budget data link



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 07:46 AM
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reading the thread title makes me laugh so much, i have trouble typing up a response. no offense to the OP btw, just find it funny that people still ask such a silly question is all. the government isn't in control of anything, especially themselves, so how could they possibly be in charge of a budget, that doesn't even exist?



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by solarstorm
This country was lost on December 23, 1913.


Actually it was lost in 1792 when 24 stock brokers made a secret agreement to "Solemnly promise and pledge ourselves to each other, that we will not buy or sell from this day for any person whatsoever, any kind of Public Stock, at a less rate than one quarter percent Commission on the Specie value and that we will give preference to each other in our Negotiations."

They were the original wall street money junkies and they set the course and the tone of the economy forever.
en.wikipedia.org...

Without the insider trading of these dudes there probably wouldn't have been a Federal Reserve Act.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Pedro4077

Forget the Rising Inflation, Unemployment, Homelessness, Veteran Suisides and National Debt - The Right to Bear Arms is all that Matters.

Priorities Man Priorities!
Americans are a Funny Bunch.
You can mess with the 1st Amendment, No Prob.
You can destroy the 4th Amendment, No Prob.
You can Ship our Entire Manufactoring Base outside the Country, No Prob.
You can Provide Third World Healthcare, No Prob.
You can Mortgage the Future of our Children with Debt, No Prob.
But any talk of Gun Control....Houston, we have a Prob.

Priorities .



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 08:40 AM
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It's to the point where If we were to get a handle on it life in America would come to a screeching hault. The grid would have to cut back to save money so there would be energy and water rations. Schools would go to over a hundred students to a teacher. All our troops would come home and they would get pay cuts. Pay cuts all across the government. They would sell off assets like goverment cars. It would be a mess and if BIG corps wanted to they could help fill in the holes with giving the new budget money to stay afloat or we will tax them till it's fix. Hell they abused the system to get that rich now we abuse them to fix it. I whole heartly believe that through lobbying and tax breaks to the rich it put all the strain on the middle class who simply couldn't make enough to cover the tax revenue the country needed. If we would have taxed the rich as average people they are and not super Heros we wouldn't be in as bad as mess as we are.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 09:49 AM
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I look at the country in a similiar manner as someone who has severely broken both his legs and let them heal without setting them. Sure he can function and maybe even walk with extreme difficulty, however to truly fix him you'd have to rebreak his legs and let them reheal. Our country is the same way. Any meaningful fix to this broken system is going to hurt. A lot. But we cannot continue on as a country gimping along painfully with each stride we make.





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