Why 9/11 bothers me more than the Holocaust

reply to post by DoorKnobEddie


The holocaust was the direct reason for the founding of the state of Israel,
I'm just giving my opinion on what I think has changed our world more not whose victims were more deserving.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Ok. I understand.

Ironically, since Israel was founded as a result of the Holocaust, the tragedy is still current because the Palestinian are suffering the consequences.

You may have won the argument without lifting a finger.

You have amazing debating skills.

The ramifications of the holocaust are ongoing. The State of Israel and the political parties in power there are exploiting the holocaust in a horrible way still to this day. So the holocaust never leaves the mind. I believe that besides the anti-Jew people, that there are people who are so appalled at the obvious exploitation of the holocaust, that they actually begin questioning one of the most well-documented crimes in the history of humanity.
Since I'm not at all convinced that there was no involvement of Israeli intelligence agencies with the 9/11 attacks, then that element may be a continuation of the original crime of the holocaust. Certainly the Middle East is in a state of shock still from the ramifications of both the holocaust and 9/11. For tens of millions of people in the Middle East there is an ongoing relationship between those two crimes.

So, for me, both crimes are married to one another everyday in this world and they more than bother my mind and heart in the same way.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


And the problem I have is the investigation into 9/11 was not independent enough.
And that is not my perception, that is reality.
If you want a real investigation lets some people who aren't afraid of the truth do an new one.
Not Bush and Cheney's political acolytes

Ron Paul isn't doing much these days, he would make a perfect chairman for a new investigation.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I'm with you Jay! As someone who had family members survive the holocaust, 9/11 bothers me more as well.

It might be because it's current, but that's certainly not the thoughts I have. Of the 40 family members rounded up and sent to camps, only 2 survived until their liberation, my great-grandmother and her brother. She recounted stories to me about the times and why/when they should have known to fight back or run. One of the main reasons that stuck with me is about the disarming of the Jews (as well as other "undesirables"). She said, by the time word got out about families secretly being encamped, as opposed to just being "kicked out of Eastern Europe" they had no means to fight back and no other nations would believe them that this was going on. Made sure to mention that the U.S. even turned away Jews on a boat fleeing Germany . . . btw - no nation would receive these refugees.

All that said, since 9\11, our government has been enacting many of the same laws. Only this time, it is not a few segments of society that have been restricted in these ways it is all of us. Time and time again this nation has shown a complete disregard for history and sticks to the "this is America, it can't happen here" mantra. When presented with evidence that our gov lied about WMD's or Iraq's involvment, no one cared because Saddam was still a "bad man" according to our media/gov and they were still an Islamic nation (the devil). Now I'm supposed to agree with these uneducated or agenda driven individuals when they try to expand this form of facism . . . I'm half tempted to go along with it, so I can laugh in their crying faces later. Fortunately, I'm not ready to give up my life or those of my children, so I have labled them the enemy. An unknowing, brainwashed enemy . . . but, the same none the less.

How can anybody watch this and not think, we need a new investigation on all this information we now have.
Some of these points we never had when the 9/11 commission wrote it's final results.
And they are really important to revisit.

Maybe that's what really bothers me, is that so many people can watch this and say, no we don't need a new investigation, that level of cognitive dissonance and apathy is extremely bothersome.

Somebody denying the holocaust does bother me just as much as somebody denying 9/11 irregularities.

its bothers you because your own government was involved in a mass murder

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


It is the same old misdirection, omission and lies that Gage has been spouting for years. WHY would anyone want to still listen to him is beyond me.

reply to post by vipertech0596


Did you watch the video, this is just not Gage alone.
Are you are saying all these professionals are crazy and deluded ?

I suggest that not only have they been able to move past the cognitive dissonance, but they have done one better, gone on record publicly, and many of them at the risk of much ridicule, they are brave souls.

Originally posted by samkent
Maybe why it's bothering the OP so badly is because deep inside he isn't fully convinced that 911 is a conspiracy.

Look at it this way. In any event in history you can find things that don't make sense. Using these things you can build a conspiracy. You can twist this little thing one way. You can add conjecture that way. That's what defense lawyers do everyday for a living.
All they need to do is put one wedge of doubt in your mind and then pound on that wedge until you start doubting the other true facts.

Wow! your post does exactly what it describes. You guys are getting a little better but still too obvious. Keep trying.

Getting back on topic though, It bothers the OP probably for same reasons it bothers me. It was a world changing event, thousands of innocent people were murdered and are still being murdered, and no one is held responsible for it. The story of how it happened is an insult to peoples intelligence. Members of our government practically confessed that they either let it happen or made it happen. We have eyewitnesses, whistle blowers, declassified documents, video footage, audio recordings, photographs that debunk the 911 commission report and still nothing happened to anybody in anyway.

I mean where is it considered normal to be promoted after a royal screw up that caused peoples lives?
Time for debunkers to give it up already, the people you insist are innocent already got away with it. unfortunately.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Crazy? No. Misinformed? Yes.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
The problem I have with this thread is that you are looking at it from a conspiracy theorists point of view

If you assume that 9/11 happened just as the official story says then your argument goes out the window so it is only our perception of 9/11 that means it bothers you more than the holocaust. There are some who believe the holocaust was a cover-up of some kind as well who would argue with you that the holocaust is a bigger issue.

If you take the conspiracy out of it then the holocaust would probably be a bigger deal, other than that 9/11 is still raw in your mind. Then again Stalin killed 23 million, and there are other genocides that you should probably be more bothered about.

9/11 is a big deal more because of its symbolic significance other than the human cost when compared to say the Rwandan genocide.

LOL... If people assume that 9/11 happened just as the official story says then their argument is irrelevant because they are dumb. If people would do that then the sun still revolves around our flat earth.

But yeah Holocaust is bigger, but a lot more time passed and to most it's just a part of history. 9/11 still feels like it just happened because we all watched it live on TV. Just my opinion.

reply to post by whatsecret

LOL... If people assume that 9/11 happened just as the official story says then their argument is irrelevant because they are dumb. If people would do that then the sun still revolves around our flat earth.

So everyone is covering it up?
We can't get 535 people to agree on a budget but millions are hiding 911?
Is it realistic to believe that?

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Maybe that's what really bothers me, is that so many people can watch this and say, no we don't need a new investigation, that level of cognitive dissonance and apathy is extremely bothersome.

I have nerer had any cognitive dissonance concerning 911.
Can you explain why all the thousands of structural engineering students all over the world who have graduated since 911 have remained silent?
We can have a flash mob but none of them can tweet about 911?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by whatsecret

 

LOL... If people assume that 9/11 happened just as the official story says then their argument is irrelevant because they are dumb. If people would do that then the sun still revolves around our flat earth.

So everyone is covering it up?
We can't get 535 people to agree on a budget but millions are hiding 911?
Is it realistic to believe that?

I don't know what you are talking about. I said that people who just assume that what they are told is true without researching for themselves are idiots.

reply to post by samkent

Can you explain why all the thousands of structural engineering students all over the world who have graduated since 911 have remained silent?

Well that is a very good question I must admit, do you really think WTC7 failure is being taught in class. It would only encourage fresh eyes on the NIST report ? Do they want that ?

Any currently in class or recent graduates are welcome to comment on this.

And even if graduates did think WTC7 was a CD, they are not going to go public and jeopardize their careers. Especially when they are entering a difficult job market .
I wouldn't for the sake of self-preservation. It is what it is, and there is only so much a person can do, they still have to exist within the system and not sabotage themselves. The people that have stepped forward are either very well established or retired.

Both were murder they should bother one the same.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33


And even if graduates did think WTC7 was a CD, they are not going to go public and jeopardize their careers. Especially when they are entering a difficult job market .
I wouldn't for the sake of self-preservation. It is what it is, and there is only so much a person can do, they still have to exist within the system and not sabotage themselves. The people that have stepped forward are either very well established or retired.

So if you had actual scientific evidence that wtc7 was blown up blow but releasing it could damage your carreer you would remain silent? Maybe you are that immoral but to imply that every structural engineer is is a rather big accusation. So evidence please.

This argument always kind of sickens me, scientists and engineers are all immoral greedy bastards caring just about their careers, that's why they don't talk. Well, at least you have the cutesy to say that you would be if you were an engineer.

Besides, we live in the age of the internet. Where is the truth organization called "annonymous engineers for 911 truth" releasing all those papers nobody can get around?

Have you ever considered the obvious alternative that you are dead out wrong and that that's the reason they don't talk?

I'm not a person of god. I'm just another overly curious person in this messed up world. All I can say is one word karma. One thing I have seen in life as a truth is karma or Newtons law or yin/yang whatever you call it. You reap what you sow. The U.S. government has sowed quite a bit around the world and I think we are seeing the beginning of the return chickens to roost. Out of the light and into the darkness America goes..........

reply to post by americanbuffalo1

I'm not a person of god.

Neither the Holocaust or 9/11 should be blamed on God or religion.

The Holocaust was about racism and evil and 9/11 was a consequence/precursor of American hegemonic activities.

Only recently the Bolivian government has stepped forward to complain that the US is subverting its civic life and bullying the sovereign government of the Bolivian people.

To confuse the actions of/or reactions to the US or Nazi Germany with religion is to play into their hands. To believe that statist geopolitical machinations is about faith and God makes you a tool and a reactionary fool.