Based on recent studies of the cosmic microwave afterglow of the Big Bang, with which our known universe began 13.7 billion years ago, many cosmologists now believe that this observable universe is just a tiny, if relentlessly expanding, patch of space-time embedded in a greater universal fabric that is, in a profound sense, infinite. It may be an infinitely large monoverse, or it may be an infinite bubble bath of infinitely budding and inflating multiverses, but infinite it is, and the implications of that infinity are appropriately huge.
Relativity and inflation theory, said Dr. Aguirre, “allow us to conceptualize things that would have seemed impossible before.” Time can be twisted, he said, “so from one point of view the universe is a finite thing that is growing into something infinite if you wait forever, but from another point of view it’s always infinite.”
Originally posted by neoholographic
I think the universe is infinite but matter is finite.This just means space and matter will expand forever and we're eternal.
Say you have a marble in a big box. You then have a high state of entropy because the marble has a lot of states it can be in. You then put that same marble in a small box where it can barely move and you have a low state of entropy because there's only a few states it can be in.
What this means the universe will expand forever but we will eventually reach a point near absolute zero. There will be more states for matter to be in but we can't go into those states because there isn't enough energy to do work. Eventually quantum fluctuations will dominate the universe and then universes will began to branch from the universe. So you have this endless branching of universes. These universes expand and some of them have beings like us and in some we may live similar lives or very different lives. A universe expands until it nears absolute zero. Quantum Fluctuations eventually dominate then more universes expand from that universe. So the universe is infinite and so are we. It goes even further if Consciousness is Quantum.
edit on 4-1-2013 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)
an infinite bubble bath of infinitely
Cantor found that the decimal numbers between 0 and 1, or say 1 and 2, is a bigger unlistable infinite amount of values than counting from 1 to forever.
I believe that you are putting your feet in your mouth on that statement. The statement made only sense if you added the first to the second (to get the bigger and only in relative comparison, comparing anew a subsection) in direct comparison infinite is as great as any other infinite, making your statement nonsensical.
In regards to the OP there is not way that a physical infinite is provable or scientifically testable, it would require an infinite/omnipresent observer. Theorizing or modeling infinite is already possible, like we do with numbers.
There are relative and different size Infinities
The space from 1 to forever counted numbers, is different that between 0 and 1. It's been proven long time ago. If you got beef with it, go disprove Cantor or set theory.
The microwave afterglo tests tell us enough and give us various glimpses into whether there is an Infinity, in that a certain range and set of the after glow, can be deduced to be background constant that does not expand, or have a directional expansion which has already provide evedince of multi-verses. Go read this stuff up!!!
Yes I know what Set theory and still say that what you stated made no sense in the words that it was expressed. I disagree that there are such thing...
In the late 19th century, the great German mathematician Georg Cantor took on infinity not as a means to an end, but as a subject worthy of rigorous study in itself. He demonstrated that there are many kinds of infinite sets, and some infinities are bigger than others. Hard as it may be to swallow, the set of all the possible decimal numbers between 1 and 2, being unlistable, turns out to be a bigger infinity than the set of all whole numbers from 1 to forever, which in principle can be listed.
Even as abstract concepts there is no logic in those definitions, infinite is a statement that qualifies something as not bounded by limits, it can not be relative nor have different sizes as it has by definition no size. An Infinite set is by its narrower limitation of characteristics a distinct concept than the broader concept of infinite (not the same thing), even so the size of infinite is not changed.
This statement is valid, I have no beef with it, infinites are distinct in relation to the elements they may contain, but not in relation to their size (unless you limit it to a subsection of the set, that was the point I was making in my first reply).
I do no understand the deep physics of the test but my affirmation remains valid. A finite and localized observer will never be able to validate the existence of infinite, he can theorize and speculate but will be unable to ascertain the physical existence of infinite. I'm not defending that there is an impossibility of a physical infinite to exist (one concept where it may be prevalent is on scale, size), just that we will never be able to prove one does.
I agree that infinite exists as a concepts and has usefulness but that it seems no to exist in the physical world (or that we are incapable of interacting with it).
“You can divide infinity an infinite number of times, and the resulting pieces will still be infinitely large[...]But if you divide a non-infinite number an infinite number of times the resulting pieces are non-infinitely small. Since they are non-infinitely small, but there are an infinite number of them, if you add them back together, their sum is infinite. This implies any number is, in fact, infinite.” - Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
The circle is a dumb example as I responder some time ago the end is next to the start.
Originally posted by Kashai
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Life itself can be considered evidence of an infinite universe....
It is not just the overall glow that Integral has seen. Before the satellite's launch, only a few dozen celestial objects were observed in gamma rays. Now Integral sees about 300 individual sources in our Galaxy and around 100 of the brightest supermassive black holes in other galaxies. These are the tip of the iceberg. Astronomers believe there are tens of millions of active black holes spread throughout space, all contributing to the gamma-ray background.