Girl 10 dies from falling bullet on New Years Eve

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Well well.......

Before Im accused again of trawling the net looking for anti gun propaganda, this was in the top 10 stories of the website Im directed to when I close my email acc

A 10-year-old girl in the US has died after being struck by a stray bullet fired in the air during New Year's celebrations. Aaliyah Boyer was watching midnight fireworks outside a home in Elkton, Maryland, south of Philadelphia, when she was struck in the head by a falling bullet.

Yeah I know
It was probably an illegal firearm
The gun owner wasnt responsible
They probably had a mental illness
She shouldnt have been out that late
Its her parents fault for not making her wear a crash helmet
People die from Car crashes way more than guns, lets ban them
Etc etc etc etc

Thank god I live in a country where people dont have to worry about getting shot at school or even that when standing outside its a possibility to get hit by bullets falling out of the sky.

The mentality of gun ownership is just sick, theres no taboo involved in owning or apparently even firing a gun.
God bless America,land of the free to own any gun you want.

I wont be responding to anyone who uses this as a platform to tell me guns are OK, quite frankly Ive had enough and have dealt with all your pointless and contradictory arguments a million times over.
As long as guns are readily available to everyone stories like this and Sandy Hook are gonna keep happening.

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND FRICKEN DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

Article

edit on 4/1/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

Considering the tone of the rest (especially the end) of your post, the first line looks like an obvious and blatant lie.

And yes, I'd say there is a respectable chance that was an illegal weapon, and there is no way to deny that the firearm owner was irresponsible, is there?

reply to post by iwilliam

Considering the tone of the rest (especially the end) of your post, the first line looks like an obvious and blatant lie. And yes, I'd say there is a respectable chance that was an illegal weapon, and there is no way to deny that the firearm owner was irresponsible, is there?

Go to the link and scroll down, youll see its in the top 10 stories.
Sign up for a hotmail Acc saying your Australian, when you log out it directs you to that site.
It came up when I logged out of my acc.

Yes the owner was irresponsible

The fact of the matter is that guns already exist. Sorry people. Slapping gun bans or gun control down doesn't negate the existence of guns. Arms manufacturers will still produce weapons. Scandals like Fast and Furious will still take place. You can print working guns on a 3D printer for Christ's sake. What the hell would gun control actually do? Oh yeah, start civil turmoil and possible civil war. Great idea, way to think of solutions to problems logically. This whole argument of gun control is a big facepalm.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Thank god I live in a country where people dont have to worry about getting shot at school or even that when standing outside its a possibility to get hit by bullets falling out of the sky.

I'm curious as to why you don't have to worry. If your country were completely, 100% gun free, then you wouldn't have to worry. But in checking, in 2010, gun deaths in Australia was 231, up from 2008 by 6. Since your gun controls of 1996, the yearly gun deaths have varied. Yes they are down but they are NOT gone.

www.gunpolicy.org...

2010: 231
2009: 224
2008: 225
2007: 404
2006: 229
2003: 287
2002: 293
2001: 326
2000: 324
1999: 347
1998: 312
1997: 428
1996: 516

www.aic.gov.au...

Table 1 Victims of selected violent crimes, 1996–2010 (n)
........................Homicide.............Assault .............Sexual assault............ Robbery........ Kidnapping/
......................................................................................................................................abduction
1996 .....................354..............114,156.................14,542 ......................16,372 ....................478
1997 .....................364..............124,500.................14,353.......................21,305......................564
1998 .....................334 .............130,903.................14,689 ......................23,801......................707
1999 .....................385..............134,271 ................14,699 ......................22,606 .....................766
2000 .....................362............. 138,708................ 16,406...................... 23,336 .....................695
2001 .....................347 .............152,283.................17,577.......................26,591......................767
2002 .....................366............. 160,118................ 18,718...................... 20,989..................... 706
2003 .....................341............. 157,280............... 18,025 .......................19,709 ......................696
2004 .....................302 .............156,849............... 19,171...................... 16,513....................... 768
2005 .....................301............. 166,507 ...............18,695 ......................17,176....................... 729
2006 .....................321............. 172,441 ...............19,555...................... 17,375 .......................726
2007 .....................283 .............176,077............... 19,954 ......................17,996....................... 733
2008 .....................293 .............170,720 ...............19,992 ......................16,513 .......................788
2009 .....................293 .............175,277 ..............18,807...................... 15,238........................ 564
2010 .....................260............. 171,083...............17,757.......................14,582........................ 603

Although there have been fewer deaths, there are still many. If I were you, I would still worry....because gunshot deaths DO still occur down under. And so do homicides from other sources. The assaults have also greatly increased. It doesn't appear that Australia is that much safer overall.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Use of anything that carries as much lethality as a firearm, in such a spurious manner is neither within the law, nor morally acceptable.

But, if you recieve flak for including the Sandy Hook incident in your post, suggesting that guns were the problem there, then you are bound to get some heat. First of all, its not accurate at all. The kids that died at Sandy Hook did not die because guns were available to the killer. They died because the killer was a person who had been identified as a person with severe psychological issues, who had not been correctly treated.

He would have gone on a killing spree wether he had access to a knife, a bat or a hammer, and it just so happened that he gained access to his mothers guns. He could have just driven a car into the building, fractured the fuel tank with an axe, and set the fuel aflame, and if that had been the option open to him, no one can say he wouldnt have.

It is preventing those who want, for whatever reason, to harm others, from ever being in a position to do so, that is the thing to aim at here, not the availability of tools to do it with. Were it any other way, then you would have to ban everything from tooth brushes to pillows. Both of those have also been used to kill.

The specific incident to which you refer however, is just pure tragedy, which was caused by complete bloody stupidity, and I hope the person responsible gets every inch of the kicking they deserve for discharging a weapon in such an irresponsible manner.

Originally posted by Shaade
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

doesn't seem like the proper category for this type of story.
Unless youre just trying to make any and all gun related news a political issue?

sad very sad

Shaade

It's should be in the ``propaganda thread`` category.

Ya know, in all these gun debate threads, there is one thing explicitly missing from the gun-grabber side of the argument.

In all seriousness, I want to hear proposals of how you think the confiscation of guns should happen.
While you tinker with your idea, consider the following:
Roughly 100,000,000 armed American citizens, with roughly 300,000,000 guns of varying type.
Countless military/police around the web stating they will not enforce any such proposal.
Countless gun owners who will not go down quietly. "Cold dead fingers" etc.

What is your plan to disarm a nation full of people, Public service and private sector, who were told never to relinquish their weapons to the Government? The lives of 20 children and 6 adults is sure a tragedy, and this girl in OP's post is too, but it is no reason to deny one-hundred-million lawful American citizens of the rights given to them at birth.

Here's a stat you won't see anywhere: How many crimes have been stopped at the planning stages because the target was armed? Bet you won't get many criminals to answer that poll.

reply to post by mattdel


Good question

1st I would set up a voluntary buy back scheme, hand them in , get paid and watch them crushed in front of you so no chance of them ending up back on the street.

2nd stop selling guns, according to your stats everyone who wants one has roughly 3.you dont need more than 1 in any logical argument.

3rd anyone caught with a gun gets a fine plus has it automatically confiscated and it gets destroyed also in front of you so you know its not back on the streets.

4th anyone using a gun in any crime automatically gets X amount of years on their sentence.

5th anyone caught illegally selling a gun automatic life imprisonment, mandatory sentence with no jury or judge when irrefutable proof is supplied i.e video and audio evidence

6th Anyone who owns a gun can keep it in their home for self defence, I dont think its necessary but it will stop civil war as most gun owners seem like they are willing to kill to keep their guns. Hardly a peep when the patriot act came out but just the suggestion of taking away guns and you all go bat shight crazy

Its not perfect but I think its as good as it can be, give it a few generations and guns will be a non event in the US like they are in most other civilised nations

Originally posted by GMan420

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Scratch what I said about ignoring me, Im now ignoring you

Are you ignoring me as well? Did you not want to talk about your inability to see alcohol as a killer with no legitimate purpose?

I'm perfectly OK with you ignoring me because you can't address the alcohol comparison without looking stupid. Just let me know so I don't wait around for an answer of some kind from you about it.

You do realize, OP, that just because you don't answer it doesn't mean that other people don't see your hypocrisy, right? I'm not giving up because I'd really like to get a REAL answer from you about this.

Your main beef with the alcohol argument seems to be that alcohol wasn't made to kill... let me ask you the question this way - what was alcohol made to do? What is its purpose? Is that purpose important enough to you that it justifies the deaths of thousands of people every year (children included)?

Jeez, i often wondered if there are a lot of these deaths in the middle east where they shoot automatic weapons into the air regularly for little or no excuse.....
Crowds of people all firing into the sky on full auto......
You dont hear too much about that.......
The little girl s story is a sad one ...
There are risks involved in freedom....
The idea of people being free assumes they are mature and esponsible...but how do they get that way if not trained?
parents have virtually allowed most kids to grow up on their own these days....
Then they wonder why society is #ed up......its getting boring hearing the nanny state citizens bitch about others freedom
This threads a troll...

reply to post by GMan420


When you talk about alcohol killing people they are killing themselves not others. Idiots who drink and drive are a concern but a proper education campaign like we had in OZ can seriously reduce this.
In OZ nowadays if your out drinking good mates will not let you drive home and will go as far as taking your keys away from you, this isnt an exaggeration.

When someone walks into a school or mall and kills 20 people with alcohol well talk again, till then take your obtuse arguments elsewhere

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by GMan420

 

When you talk about alcohol killing people they are killing themselves not others. Idiots who drink and drive are a concern

My friend's 16-year old daughter was killed by a drunk driver.

WTF are you talking about?

reply to post by stirling


Your free to own a gun and thats about it

You can be searched, wiretapped, even detained without justification and none of you say anything.
Just mention taking away guns and you all start crying like little girls.

You dont love freedom,you love guns.

If you truly loved freedom you would all do something about getting rid of the patriot act

Originally posted by sconner755

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by GMan420

 

When you talk about alcohol killing people they are killing themselves not others. Idiots who drink and drive are a concern

My friend's 16-year old daughter was killed by a drunk driver.

WTF are you talking about?

2 of my friends were killed by a drunk driver when I was 19

WTF are you talking about?

Edit: Im sorry to hear about your niece and my post isnt meant to come across as insensitive.
As stated above Ive also lost friends to drunk drivers but I still dont see alcohol being in anywhere near the same league as guns. They are 2 completely different things

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


That is a fantastically stiff and malfunctional view of alcohol. Its not just about the damage done to the drinker, nor about the damage a person does when getting into a car when drunk. How about the amount of money spent on drinkers liver transplants, that could be spent on curing cancer, or AIDS? How about all the beatings that are given out by drunkards, to thier children, thier wives, and random people outside bars? How about the people that get drunk and beat people to death?

What do you supose the nett effect of years of a fathers alcohol abuse will be on his child? Do you think that generations of whole families being bought up by people who cannot string a sentence together will be benificial to the state of the nation?

Do you think that alcohols effect on society stops at the drinkers life ending through abuse? Because that is just not true.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

My friend, when it comes to gun rights do you not know that collateral damage is entirely acceptable? I wonder if it would change anyones mind if it were their kid or that of a good friend.

My brother was killed by a gun........ive lost a few friends to being shot........

Ive been shot at......on a number of occasions........

It does not change my stance on guns one single decimal point..........

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff


2nd stop selling guns, according to your stats everyone who wants one has roughly 3.you dont need more than 1 in any logical argument.

If you think you can decide what other people need, how about I tell you that you don't need your car because it goes too high over the speed limit making you more likely to kill people.

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff


2nd stop selling guns, according to your stats everyone who wants one has roughly 3.you dont need more than 1 in any logical argument.

If you think you can decide what other people need, how about I tell you that you don't need your car because it goes too high over the speed limit making you more likely to kill people.

Not to mention vehicles kill more people then guns do.........and going along with his alcohol statement , he seems to think guns need to be banned but alcohol doesnt........what you wana bet the bullet that was fired in the air had alcohol involved?

Perhaps we do need to ban it too, as when you add alcohol to cars the outcome can be even more serious......

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by GMan420

 

When you talk about alcohol killing people they are killing themselves not others. Idiots who drink and drive are a concern but a proper education campaign like we had in OZ can seriously reduce this.
In OZ nowadays if your out drinking good mates will not let you drive home and will go as far as taking your keys away from you, this isnt an exaggeration.

When someone walks into a school or mall and kills 20 people with alcohol well talk again, till then take your obtuse arguments elsewhere

I will say thank you for what you believe is an actual answer.

As to the idiots who drink and drive, they kill more than 20 a day around here - at least that's what the number was from 2001-2005:
Secretary Peters explained that data released today by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) shows that from 2001-2005, an average of 36 fatalities occurred per day on America’s roadways as a result of crashes involving an alcohol impaired driver. That number increases to 45 per day during the Christmas period and jumps to 54 per day over the New Year’s holiday, she added.
www.nhtsa.gov...

Maybe if they were children waiting at a single bus stop instead of separate incidences you would care more about them?

It's sad that you just won't admit that you like alcohol (a relatively useless substance except for when you want to get drunk) too much to give it up so thousands of people aren't killed each year. Some people are just selfish like that I suppose, and I can see where it might be embarrassing to admit that you like your booze too much to save lives by getting rid of it.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by sconner755

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by GMan420

 

When you talk about alcohol killing people they are killing themselves not others. Idiots who drink and drive are a concern

My friend's 16-year old daughter was killed by a drunk driver.

WTF are you talking about?

2 of my friends were killed by a drunk driver when I was 19

WTF are you talking about?

Edit: Im sorry to hear about your niece and my post isnt meant to come across as insensitive.
As stated above Ive also lost friends to drunk drivers but I still dont see alcohol being in anywhere near the same league as guns. They are 2 completely different things

edit on 4/1/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

You asserted that people using alcohol are only killing themselves. You know that was an idiotic assertion when you made it since you've experienced your friends getting killed when you were 19.

Yes, there is a difference. Alcohol serves no useful purpose, other than self-indulgent, state-altering behavior that leads to tens of thousands of accidental deaths.

Guns can be used to protect and defend against bad guys intent on harming me.

Self-protection is a human right. Getting drunk for fun isn't.