Girl 10 dies from falling bullet on New Years Eve

Originally posted by Mr Tranny


A chainsaw was invented to cut. It is up to the person using that chainsaw as to what he will cut with that chainsaw. He could cut a tree, a block of ice, a wall of a house, or another person. Do we want to ban chainsaws because someone cut someone else with one? No, it’s a tool. The person that used it is responsible for the damage done. Not the chainsaw.

Are guns responsible for all the misery in the world? No, they are tools. The bad people that use tools for evil are the ones responsible for all the misery in the world.

Haha, sorry but that reminds me of this lunatic. This guy came to the US Border from Canada with a bloody chain saw, and other weapons and boasting to have killed 700 people. But they let him into the USA anyway without questioning him or detaining him. Turns out a few days later after letting him in, he decapitated his neighbor! God bless the USA!


en.wikipedia.org...

He presented himself to the U.S. border guards while carrying a homemade sword, a hatchet, a knife, brass knuckles and a chainsaw stained with what appeared to be blood. At the border, Despres boasted of being an assassin for the United States government and of having killed 700. The weapons were confiscated and Despres was fingerprinted. Although it was determined that Despres was due in court to be sentenced for an assault conviction, Despres held U.S. citizenship and under US law, the officers could not legally compel Despres to return to Canada. Although contact was made with the RCMP, they had no other information that would have allowed the officers to detain Despres. The bodies had not yet been discovered. He was therefore properly permitted to enter the United States.

On February 1, Despres lashed out at his new lawyer, Ed Derrah, accusing him of working for Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. He demanded his lawyer be fired, but Clendenning refused his request. Derrah requested his client be sent for a psychological evaluation; Clendenning agreed and the trial was ended.

Originally posted by rjohns1
reply to post by Nanocyte

 

How about some statistics to back your claim that most of the gun rights activists have the IQ of a carrot? What utter drivel.

Statistics aren't needed for that one, unless you have the IQ of a carrot yourself (and that's being generous...) you would see it for yourself.

A statistic I would be interested in is how many of these legally bought firearms end up in the hands of criminals abroad.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by Bakatono

 

LMAO

What exactly have I lied about?

And I dont have an agenda, I have an opinion!!!!
If I have an agenda then so do all you pro gun nuts.

Im not even American so really couldnt give a toss how many guns you have or how often you shoot each other.

It just pisses me off to hear people say they are safer when theres more guns in circulation

If you "couldn't give a toss" then why do you continue to post biased, and down right silly anti-gun threads. Do you just come here to argue? Because argue is what you do, you do not debate, or discuss. You come here with your "Guns are evil" nonsense, and insult people for replying to your nonsense with actual facts and figures.

You have stated over and over how you live in Kuala Limpur, Malasia. Well, I have been there. It was as violent as any city I've ever been to. Have you ever been to the US? I doubt it. Yet, you are so quick to sling judgement upon us.

You realize, hopefully, that the reason you only hear of illegal gun violence is because that's what gets ratings, right? I know several people who have used their guns to protect against home invasion, including my own parents. You think that somehow banning guns will actually help. I don't think you have any idea of the amount of illegal weapons exist here. It's a large number, unfortunately, there's no real way to know for sure, but believe me, keeping the guns from the responsible people will do nothing to prevent these things from happening.

So, once again, I ask: If you "couldn't give a toss" about it, then why do you constantly rant and rave about it?

reply to post by RN311

Then why should law abiding citizens give up theirs? I'm not saying this because I need mine to protect myself from the bad guys (although that is an added benefit) but this doesn't help your argument

As its been shown and your fellow pro gunners have admitted, most guns in the hands of crims have either been stolen from law abiding citizens, stolen from or on the way to places that sell them legally or purchased legally for them.
None of you will give yours up that much is clear but do you really need to keep selling them?

It would still be just as easy for them to get them, don't kid yourself if someone really wants a gun they'll find a way to get one....... kinda like drugs.

Yeah hardened crims who have contacts and resources, but highschool kids? I dont think so

Once again the rest of the civilised world gets by just fine without 1 in 3 people packing guns

your right the STORIES do and probably will continue to the facts on the other hand......... Annually guns are used 64,615 times in self defense situations

LMFAO Sorry dude but those stats were extrapolated from a phone survey of 2000 people, phone survey are worse than useless in terms of factual information.

Only 600 accidental gun deaths!!!!! Well I guess I need to start a sorry I was wrong thread, guns are obviously perfectly safe

I don't understand why you keep insisting that the fact that I choose to keep a firearm for other reasons besides defense (although I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I needed to) means that I'm scared?? I do not live my life in fear of anything. This statement just shows your lacking of understanding about the way our country works. Sort of like all your statements about the "mentality" of the average American gun owner. Which once again I don't understand because you don't know the average American gun owner.............

Go through this thread and my other one on guns and the vast majority of you say you have guns either "to defend my family if someone breaks into my home" or "to defend myself against the government when they come for me" or "to defend myself when walking down the street" whether you like it or not these are fear based reasons.
Im not projecting or making assumptions this is written by gun owners on this site.
Ive stated repeatedly that guns for hunting is completely different and fine if its to put food on the table and not just trophy killing.
As for the mentality of gun owners, sorry but most of them are sick, check any thread where a gun was used in self defence, most of them are actually happy another human being was shot and killed, some even say they wish it was them doing the shooting. Rapists I can understand, I wouldnt shoot them Id castrate them and then throw em in jail personally, but burglars!!!!!

So the things I say about guns and gun owners are based on what I hear on this site and since theyre the people Im addressing I feel its valid

reply to post by Xenrutcon


1 Million in your valley? is that your city or your vicinity (like county or what you guys call it)

"We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand." --Admiral Yamamoto

Yep its not 1944 either, any army gets past your navy, airforce and army and lands on America your beyond screwed. In WW2 the weapons available to you and the army werent to different. You could improvise explosives to blow up tanks etc etc then slip back into the forest.
Your deluding yourself if you think you stand any chance against drones and satellites.

Your army is a massive deterrent against invasion, not you guys with your ARs

reply to post by StalkerSolent

History has shown us that tyranny is often only a generation away. Shoot, the genocide in Rwanda was just the other day. I wonder how it would have gone if the victims had firearms to defend themselves (if my memory serves me correctly, many of, if not most of the victims were beaten or hacked to death.) Times have changed, but have people? Although personally, I think the best justification for keeping weapons is protecting your village from terrifying viking-squirrels

Do you know what Rwanda was? It had nothing to do with the government, it was race based for want of a better term. Since the ones doing the killing were in the majority having guns everywhere wouldnt have helped the ones who were slaughtered.

If you fear your government so much why not do something now before it gets to the stage where youll need your guns?
If it does get to that stage sorry but your dead, anyone who isnt deluded could see that

reply to post by Mr Tranny

No, a gun was invented to expel an object out the end at speed. It’s the person that is responsible for deciding what it will expel that object at. It was a person that decided to point it at a living object and found out that it was relatively efficient at poking holes in living objects. As to which living object he points it at, is up to him. He can point it at a pig, to kill it and feed many hungry people, or he could point it at a person to kill them.

It was designed as a weapon of war, how or why you would argue this point is beyond me.

Are guns responsible for all the misery in the world? No, they are tools. The bad people that use tools for evil are the ones responsible for all the misery in the world.

A gun is not a tool its a weapon, the fact you cant grasp or choose to ignore this tells me you shouldnt be allowed near one

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Well well.......

Before Im accused again of trawling the net looking for anti gun propaganda, this was in the top 10 stories of the website Im directed to when I close my email acc

A 10-year-old girl in the US has died after being struck by a stray bullet fired in the air during New Year's celebrations. Aaliyah Boyer was watching midnight fireworks outside a home in Elkton, Maryland, south of Philadelphia, when she was struck in the head by a falling bullet.

Yeah I know
It was probably an illegal firearm
The gun owner wasnt responsible
They probably had a mental illness
She shouldnt have been out that late
Its her parents fault for not making her wear a crash helmet
People die from Car crashes way more than guns, lets ban them
Etc etc etc etc

Thank god I live in a country where people dont have to worry about getting shot at school or even that when standing outside its a possibility to get hit by bullets falling out of the sky.

The mentality of gun ownership is just sick, theres no taboo involved in owning or apparently even firing a gun.
God bless America,land of the free to own any gun you want.

I wont be responding to anyone who uses this as a platform to tell me guns are OK, quite frankly Ive had enough and have dealt with all your pointless and contradictory arguments a million times over.
As long as guns are readily available to everyone stories like this and Sandy Hook are gonna keep happening.

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND FRICKEN DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

Article

edit on 4/1/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

This could have been prevented is less of our countrymen had their heads stuffed far up their arrogant non-critical-thinking asses.

I can't wait for someone to dismiss this poor little girl and her family as Martyrs so I can reply, "No [expletive]. You made her a Martyr with your gun."

I don't mean to make light of the situation - my heart goes out to her family. But when all we're ever faced with is terrible and disturbing news, sometimes the best response is to try and stay positive.

I said it once and I'll say it again:



DEY TOOK ER GEEERRRRNS!

reply to post by dave_welch

If you "couldn't give a toss" then why do you continue to post biased, and down right silly anti-gun threads. Do you just come here to argue? Because argue is what you do, you do not debate, or discuss. You come here with your "Guns are evil" nonsense, and insult people for replying to your nonsense with actual facts and figures.

So are the people who are pro gun biased as well?
Silly maybe if your a gun nut but common sense to anyone else, simple question for you, America isnt a great deal different to the UK, Australia, Canada or the rest of Europe yet you guys have 1000s more gun deaths and kids shooting up schools is a fairly regular thing, why is that?

As for me arguing, youve got to be kidding!!!!
Have you read this thread or any of the others Ive been in, the vitriol tossed at me by gun nuts is amazing

You have stated over and over how you live in Kuala Limpur, Malasia. Well, I have been there. It was as violent as any city I've ever been to. Have you ever been to the US? I doubt it. Yet, you are so quick to sling judgement upon us.

BS, when were you here? what violence did you see or hear about apart from maybe a snatch theft?
I go out every weekend and in 4 years I have not seen 1 drunken fight, havent even seen bouncers throw anyone out of a club.
I dont need to go to the US to know your gun death stats nor do I need to be there to know you all carry them out of fear.

As for there being so many illegal weapons, yes there are and its because you have such easy access to legal ones, as a fellow gun hugger pointed out earlier in the thread illegal guns are mainly stolen from legal owner or stolen on the way to where they would have been legally sold.

I "Rant and Rave" as you put it because where I see stupidity or a lack of common sense I feel the need to say something, Not just on here but in the real world as well. Makes me very good atr my job but does get me in trouble with friends and girlfriends

LMFAO Sorry dude but those stats were extrapolated from a phone survey of 2000 people, phone survey are worse than useless in terms of factual information.

no actually the number I used were from this study
Link

whereas your referring to this study
Link

Only 600 accidental gun deaths!!!!! Well I guess I need to start a sorry I was wrong thread, guns are obviously perfectly safe

even if you add in the total number of deaths from guns in 2010 which were around 31,000. Guns were still used twice as many times in self defense. So I'd say having a gun for self dense is justified and does not mean your living your life "scared".

Go through this thread and my other one on guns and the vast majority of you say you have guns either "to defend my family if someone breaks into my home" or "to defend myself against the government when they come for me" or "to defend myself when walking down the street" whether you like it or not these are fear based reasons.

no it's called being prepared, kind of like when you make sure you have extra food and water before a storm??

Im not projecting or making assumptions this is written by gun owners on this site.
Ive stated repeatedly that guns for hunting is completely different and fine if its to put food on the table and not just trophy killing.

You do realize that hunting, even "trophy" hunting is a way to keep the population of animals down? Like deer, we hunt deer because if we didn't they would over populate and die of starvation and other such means. Most people who do hunt do use the meat in their every day meals. I use deer meat in the place of ground beef for most of the year.

As for the mentality of gun owners, sorry but most of them are sick, check any thread where a gun was used in self defence, most of them are actually happy another human being was shot and killed, some even say they wish it was them doing the shooting. Rapists I can understand, I wouldnt shoot them Id castrate them and then throw em in jail personally, but burglars!!!!!

This is an opinion based on what you see posted on a website. How does it make someone "sick" that their happy someone was able to defend themselves against someone wanting to do them harm??

So the things I say about guns and gun owners are based on what I hear on this site and since theyre the people Im addressing I feel its valid

Yet there are MILLIONS of other "average American gun owners" who you haven't met. So to base your views of such on your interactions with a few is closed minded.

reply to post by RN311

no actually the number I used were from this study Link

From the study

The estimates from Rape, personal larceny and motor vehicle theft rest on fewer than 10 cases

And the truth is people lie their asses off in these surveys.
I helped a phone survey company do a phone survey of people who had taken part in phone surveys to verify how accurate they were. It turns out roughly 84% of answers were complete BS as 2 years later people gave conflicting answers. Needless to say the stats were never published.

The same goes for in person surveys. This does not count as any kind of proof.
Did you read all 3 pages of the article? whichever way you look at it guns being available everywhere is bad, 220 million cases of violent crime and .2% were stopped with a gun

even if you add in the total number of deaths from guns in 2010 which were around 31,000. Guns were still used twice as many times in self defense. So I'd say having a gun for self dense is justified and does not mean your living your life "scared".

Ok lets say your survey results are accurate (therye not) and 62,000 times guns were used in self defence, how many times were they used to commit crimes not just kill people?
Alot more than 62,000 and I dont need stats or surveys to know thats true

no it's called being prepared, kind of like when you make sure you have extra food and water before a storm??

Prepared for what exactly? unless you say hunting for food your answer is fear based

You do realize that hunting, even "trophy" hunting is a way to keep the population of animals down? Like deer, we hunt deer because if we didn't they would over populate and die of starvation and other such means. Most people who do hunt do use the meat in their every day meals. I use deer meat in the place of ground beef for most of the year.

Are deer a native species? all native species numbers ebb and flow based on natural factors, for a few seasons numbers will climb till local resources no longer support them then they fall till resources replenish and numbers grow again, the cycle repeats.
Maybe you hunt for food but you are ridiculously deluded if you think your doing nature any favours or hunters have the animals best interests at heart.

This is an opinion based on what you see posted on a website. How does it make someone "sick" that their happy someone was able to defend themselves against someone wanting to do them harm??

Its sick because they dont say "Im glad you are OK" they say they wish they were dead or they are glad they are. Being honest if it were rapists Id probably be happy to but in most cases its just burglars.

Yet there are MILLIONS of other "average American gun owners" who you haven't met. So to base your views of such on your interactions with a few is closed minded.

So are you agreeing with me and saying most of the posters on this site come across as a bit rabid and arent a good representation of the American gun owning public?

If this is what you are saying then great, we have no cause for disagreement

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by Mr Tranny
It was designed as a weapon of war, how or why you would argue this point is beyond me.
.....................
A gun is not a tool its a weapon, the fact you cant grasp or choose to ignore this tells me you shouldnt be allowed near one

All tools can, and has been used as weapons, or as a part of a weapon, in some form or another. It does not mean they are not tools, none the less.

Jet engines were designed as parts of weapons of war. I declare that there is no place for jet engines in the modern peaceful air transportation industry.

Magnetrons were designed as parts of weapons of war. I declare that that microwave in your kitchen is a dastardly weapons of war because it contains weapons components of war!

Chlorine gas has been used as a very devastating weapon. Do we ban people using bleach because of it’s chlorine content?

Water has also been used as a weapon of war. Should we restrict, and control who can own water?

You implications that the possible design objective of a device almost a thousand years ago somehow has any bearing on it’s possible uses in the modern times, defies logic. To state we should fear that said device because of what it was designed for a thousand years ago also defies logic.

I don’t fear the knife. It was invented to cut and stab things countless years ago. Knives have been used in every war for countless centuries But in the end, it is still just a sharpened flat metal tool. It can be used for cutting, wedging, prying, and poking. I use one almost every day.

I don’t fear a pitchfork. But if someone that is very mad is holding that pitchfork and pointing it at me, then you can be rest assured that I am going to fear that person. Not the pitchfork.

It is how that tool is used that will determine if it is being used as a deadly weapon. Not the tool it’s self. If you try to run over someone with a car, you will be charged with using a deadly weapon. Should we try to restrict all cars because someone used one as a deadly weapon? Almost every object around you is a weapon in the right person’s hands.

Ok lets say your survey results are accurate (therye not) and 62,000 times guns were used in self defence, how many times were they used to commit crimes not just kill people?
Alot more than 62,000 and I dont need stats or surveys to know thats true

you maybe right I don't know I haven't looked up those numbers. The numbers I posted where in response to this comment you made earlier in this thread

Stories of people using their guns in defence against baddies are outweighed by about 10-1 of accidental killings and kids or otherwise lawful citizens killing people they didnt need to.

I was doing this to refute the point you made most people call this a debate. Now you want to change the subject, that is fine we can debate that subject as well but at least concede you were wrong.

the facts are there are about 31,000 gun related deaths per year and yet guns are used in defensive efforts more then twice that.


As for the rest of your "points" they are all based on your opinions which are unrelated based on the fact that you have no working knowledge on Americans, our tradition of hunting and gun owning, other then what you read on the internet.

Also I think your inability to carry on a civil debate without resorting to calling people "gun nuts" and "sick crazies" does not help get your point across and does nothing to help your credibility

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by StalkerSolent

 

Do you know what Rwanda was? It had nothing to do with the government, it was race based for want of a better term. Since the ones doing the killing were in the majority having guns everywhere wouldnt have helped the ones who were slaughtered.

If you fear your government so much why not do something now before it gets to the stage where youll need your guns?
If it does get to that stage sorry but your dead, anyone who isnt deluded could see that

I'm not sure how much the government played into the Rwanda genocide. But I do know that it demonstrates that mankind still has the capacity for violence on a mass scale. I know I would have preferred having guns under those conditions.
And what stage is that? What do you mean by "do something?" Perhaps you can explain...? Please understand me correctly--my argument for guns as a protection against government is not an argument that "Obama is going to go crazy and kill us all." I worry that all governments that have ever existed may, at some point in the future, become tyrannical.
And if by "that stage" you mean "the part where the government begins to become unbearably oppressive and/or starts killing lots of people, thus necessitating rebellion," I don't know how you can plausibly argue that "I'm dead" (If by that you mean that resistance would be futile.) Modern history shows otherwise. (If you mean sometime else, I apologize; feel free to explain.)

reply to post by Xenrutcon


Haha thanks Xenrutcon. No reason not to have a little fun every once in a while.
Once IKS changes his avatar it won't make any sense, unfortunately.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


That would be my county, which is small in terms of land area. The local "city" is aprox. 250,000.

I must add, that I agree with a poster above me. I have been to Kuala Lumpur, and it is not safer than here, not even safer than Detroit or Chicago.

And in response to the military comment you made, I am a Veteran, and my oath of enlistment never ends.

Originally posted by Xenrutcon
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

That would be my county, which is small in terms of land area. The local "city" is aprox. 250,000.

I must add, that I agree with a poster above me. I have been to Kuala Lumpur, and it is not safer than here, not even safer than Detroit or Chicago.

And in response to the military comment you made, I am a Veteran, and my oath of enlistment never ends.

How did you find KL unsafe?
Did you see or experience anything?
Once again 4 years here and the worst thing Ive seen is a chick go mental on a waiter in a restaurant

In my 4 years of only heard of 1 civilian being shot, its so safe here even snatch thefts that involve any form of violence or threats make the news.
I walk the streets even in the dodgy parts of town at all hours and the worst thats happened to me is a tranny asked if I wanted a massage

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
reply to post by Xenrutcon

 

Haha thanks Xenrutcon. No reason not to have a little fun every once in a while.
Once IKS changes his avatar it won't make any sense, unfortunately.

LOL Its a cat not a squirrel

I thought it you were making a local sporting team reference or something

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
It was probably an illegal firearm

Impossible to know. Could've been legally owned.

The gun owner wasnt responsible

Of course the gun owner, or at least the gun wielder, was responsible. Why would any rational person believe otherwise?

They probably had a mental illness

I would think that anyone firing a gun in the air is mental. That's not the responsible way to handle a firearm.

She shouldnt have been out that late

No rational person would blame this little girl.

Its her parents fault for not making her wear a crash helmet

...or her parents.

People die from Car crashes way more than guns, lets ban them

What do cars have to do with this tragedy of a little girl being killed by someone else's irresponsible and criminal negligence?

You really are sick, man. I pity you in that whatever nutso society you live in has brainwashed you to believe that a responsible gun owner could have anything to do with this. Put down the crack pipe and open your eyes to the real world.

/TOA

Originally posted by Shaade
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

doesn't seem like the proper category for this type of story.
Unless youre just trying to make any and all gun related news a political issue?

sad very sad

Shaade

Like every other thread on ATS lately (yawn), most recently I even seen a multiple stabbing news story used to advocate the pro gun cause, WTF!!

Its as though half of the american population has little dick syndrome and won't be able to cope as men with their toys taken away. To be honest, i really don't give a # what they do, I'm just sick to death of hearing about it and of all the morons it has brought out of the woodwork.