Hackers leak video of Steubenville, Ohio Rape case.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
You are missing the point....

A Juvenile Officer is a Police Officer... A Police Officer is NOT a Juvenile Officer. There is a massive difference between the 2, which revolves around area of responsibility.

As I understand this statement, I take it to mean that a -
"Juvenile Officer is one trained as a Police Officer with extra specialized training in the handling of children due to juvenile priviledges"..something not taught to regularly trained Police Officers.
Summary; a Juvenile Officer is a specialized Police Detective.

Is a DA not reqired to inform the victim in this type of case what will be forthcoming in a court precedure..?
i.e: the explanation of a long drawn out mud slinging defamation by the defendants lawyer(s).
Hanlen did this, but it is questionable as to her prior knowledge and personal conflict of interest.

As to 'deleted pics' -
It is my understanding that the only deleted pics were done by the juveniles themselves.
Please clarify my understandings..?

As to 'jurisdiction' -
It is my understanding the victim was "carried" to different parties in a state of semi or complete non compliance..?
..i.e; different parties represent different houses.

Xcathdra -
These questions are not directed a you - but at anyone whom can clarify my (mis)understandings.

id have to thank anon for doing the dirty work there. were a couple of updates about it on twitter i think.
in any case they should step forward as to be rewarded properly for their vigilantism.....

oops

Originally posted by jasonl1983

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

but If I was innocent, I wouldn't want a bunch of folks with pitchforks judging me......

If you were innocent, would you make drunken videos where you admit to crimes that you did not commit?

Innocent UNTIL proven Guilty.

If what happened was true, then jail is where they will go. Again, Pitchfork mentality isnt going to solve anything, is it?

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Stop it with the who arrests and who prosecutes crap.
I already said that I understood the police arrest and the prosecutor charges. Drop it already.
The video was in the hands of the police, so I would believe that they would be responsible for arresting the boys in the video for not reporting the crime within 72 hours just like the law dictates to be a punishable offense.

I cant drop it because you arent grasping the concept here. An arrest is not warranted when there is no prosecution. Again, please learn about jurisdiction... If the crime occurred outside city limits, city police have no authority to make an arrest.

again, in a case like this the invesitgation and prosecution is being done by the AG, NOT the police, NOT the sheriff and NOT the PA.

Just because you want it to be a crime does not make it one... Just because you want it to be prosecuted does not mean the AG will.

This is not as black and white as you are wanting it to be.

Originally posted by Afterthought
If once the police arrested them and the prosecutor decides not to charge them, fine. It's still the police's responsibility to bring those who may be guilty in for at least further questioning. I don't believe they even did this though since they believe there was nothing but jokes being tossed around. Since they believe this and I've watched the video, I have no respect for the officers in Steubenville. They are taking the comments in the video way too lightly and aren't following their own laws stating that it's a crime to not report a crime as well as the fact that you know the whereabout of a dead body.

This is a simple concept and im not understanding why you are ignoring it. It did NOT occur within their city limits. The AG, NOT the police, NOT the Sheriff and NOT the PA, is investigating and prosecuting this case. Take your anger and file it with the AG's office.

When they crime is not committed in their jurisdiction, they cant bring people in for questioning. When the AG is running the invesitgation and prosecution, the police cannot bring people in for questioning. They arent even supposed to be involved unless requested to do so by the AG's office. This would be no different if the PA was in charge of the invesitgation and prosecution.

You need to accept the fact that its not the police / sheriff / pa who is running this. They have no authority to bring people in for questioning when its the AG's investigation.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Really, XCathdra? One doesn't have to be a police officer to see that these individuals should've at least been arrested and brought in for obstructing the law. What if the girl was dying while they were telling jokes and stating specifics of the crime? I guess if she would've died, then they would've been arrested. I find this to be abhorrent.

One only needs to be familiar with the law, procedures and how investigations are run. I, respectuflly, recomend you brush up instead of repeating the same issues over and over that have been answered. As much as you want the police to act, they cant. It did NOT occur within their jurisdiction. The AG is running the investigation AND the prosecution.

Unless they make a request of law enforcement, there is nothing Law Enforcement can do.

I urge you to take the time to understand the basics in this instead of harping on the same non issue.

reply to post by Xcathdra


You are obviously an expert in department and the chain of command, so whatever department and chain of command are responsible in this situation, I don't believe it's being adhered to.
If a crime happened in a different jurisdiction, than the proper authorities need to take action.
I've already proven that it is a crime in Ohio to not report a crime within 72 hours, so whoever is in charge of this department in the proper jurisdiction is dropping the ball.
Why are you ignoring this? I don't care who is supposed to bring these guys in, but somebody needs to get off their kiester and take some responsibility here.

If you watch the movie "The Invisible War", all the loopholes are explained as to how officials allow the victims to suffer instead of bringing the rapists and those who did nothing to help the victims to justice. You say that you have to know the law to understand what's going on, but it's also knowing the law that helps one talk in circles to confuse people and find loopholes that allow the guilty walk free.

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki
As I understand this statement, I take it to mean that a -
"Juvenile Officer is one trained as a Police Officer with extra specialized training in the handling of children due to juvenile priviledges"..something not taught to regularly trained Police Officers.
Summary; a Juvenile Officer is a specialized Police Detective.

Use of the term detective is a bit off but essentially correct.

When I went through my academy we received about 3 weeks of indepth training on Juvenile law. However, since we are not juvenile officers, we exercise no authority in juvenile matters. Juvenile officers receive more in depth training on the ins and outs. Juvenile law is complex and is a completely different animal than adult criminal law.

Even juvenile courts are specialized, and they are done that way for a reason.

The calls I have taken that involved juvenile matters ended with a report of about 2 paragraphs that essentially documented the names of the people involved, their parents information, and a brief "this is what was said". I cannot interview minors.. I forward it on to the juvenile office and they assign a juvenile officer to work it. They are not a part of my department or the Sheriffs office.

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki
Is a DA not reqired to inform the victim in this type of case what will be forthcoming in a court precedure..?
i.e: the explanation of a long drawn out mud slinging defamation by the defendants lawyer(s).
Hanlen did this, but it is questionable as to her prior knowledge and personal conflict of interest.

Not really no... The credability of the victim is of importance, and that is taken into account when the review occurs for the decision to prosecute or not.

One of the misunderstandings people have is the history of the suspects. Generally speaking, prior bad acts cannot be introduced during trial (some exceptions exist).

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki
As to 'deleted pics' -
It is my understanding that the only deleted pics were done by the juveniles themselves.
Please clarify my understandings..?

We are in the same boat on this one...

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki
As to 'jurisdiction' -
It is my understanding the victim was "carried" to different parties in a state of semi or complete non compliance..?
..i.e; different parties represent different houses.

Jurisdiction means -

City - incoroperated areas of a county whose services are provided by a city. Those people can vote in city elections, pay city taxes etc. People inside city limts, who violate state law or city ordinance, can be issued citations by City police for those violations. Generally speaking Municipal courts can only handle ordinance violations / misdameanor charges. Felony crimes that occur within city limits can be invesitgated by the city and a report can be submitted to the Prosecuting Attorney for the county for prosecution of those felonies (or misdameanors).

County - unincorperated areas of a county - IE, any area not inside city limits is the responsibility of the Sheriff / State Police / Highway patrol (depnds on state). Deputies can only enforce state statutes (misd / felony). They cannot enforce city ordinance. They can enforce state laws inside city limits, but they cannot enforce city ordinance.

The location of the houses only matter if they are in different jurisdictions. If all of the locations fall within one county, then the PA runs it all. If houses fall within different counties, then the respective PA's are only responsible for those crimes occurring inside their counties (again some exceptions exist and depends on what state we are discussing).

As for going from house to house in an unconscious manner - I noticed that the guys were also charged with kidnapping, however those charges were dropped. I ahve not been able to figure out why based on the available info, which tells me we dont have all the facts.

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki
Xcathdra -
These questions are not directed a you - but at anyone whom can clarify my (mis)understandings.

No worries.. I did my best to answer them, however if people with differeing backgrounds wish to add go for it.

reply to post by Xcathdra

As for going from house to house in an unconscious manner - I noticed that the guys were also charged with kidnapping, however those charges were dropped. I ahve not been able to figure out why based on the available info, which tells me we dont have all the facts.

Maybe because daddy paid off the officials. NO, this couldn't happen.
Maybe they're waiting until the boys are found guilty of rape in juvenile court, then charge them as adults in the kidnapping.
Or maybe the people who attended the parties in different jurisdictions are lying and saying that the guys didn't bring her to the party. After all, the poor victim wasn't aware of where she was, so she can't testify that she was moved around.

Here's a gray area and brain twister:
I read somewhere that she was raped in a car at one point, so if that car was parked (or even moving) within two jurisdictions during the rape, who would be responsible for making sure the boys were arrested and charged?

Originally posted by Afterthought
You are obviously an expert in department and the chain of command, so whatever department and chain of command are responsible in this situation, I don't believe it's being adhered to.

Actually it was..

Originally posted by Afterthought
If a crime happened in a different jurisdiction, than the proper authorities need to take action.

They did.. hence the reason the AG is running the investigation and the prosecution.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I've already proven that it is a crime in Ohio to not report a crime within 72 hours, so whoever is in charge of this department in the proper jurisdiction is dropping the ball.
Why are you ignoring this? I don't care who is supposed to bring these guys in, but somebody needs to get off their kiester and take some responsibility here.

Actually you have not proven anything.. All you have shown is the possible violation of a state statute. As I stated before its against the law in the state of Ohio to kill another person. If a person is killed due to self defense, it does not change the listing of death - its still a homicide.

As I have been saying time and time again, your issue on the law violation does not lie with the police, but the AG's office. The AG is running the investigation (where police / sheriff / state police would normally be doing) as well as the prosecution (which the PA normally does).

Police are not part of the judicial branch. We have no interest in the outcome of a case since we have absolutely nothing to do with its prosecution, or lack there of.

If the Pa tells me that they will not prosecute MIP's, it does me no good to arrest people for MIP. A law on the books doesnt mean its prosecuted. I urge you to move beyond the black and white view point you have taken on
certain issues in this case. I have explained them to you, yet you are stuck on the why not.

I agree that there was a law violation... however, it does not change the fact, that at this time, they are not being prosecuted for it.

Originally posted by Afterthought
If you watch the movie "The Invisible War", all the loopholes are explained as to how officials allow the victims to suffer instead of bringing the rapists and those who did nothing to help the victims to justice. You say that you have to know the law to understand what's going on, but it's also knowing the law that helps one talk in circles to confuse people and find loopholes that allow the guilty walk free.

I ahve not talked in circles and have spent ample time explaining things, incuding linking to the Ohio laws in question. as I stated, just because you dont like the laws or the way this is being handled does not mean there is some grand conspiracy to amke this girl suffer any more than she has.

To even suggest that, while at the same time arguing a peron doesnt need to know the law, tells me that you should spend more time reading and learning and less time on conpisracy theories and ignoring the things you dont like because it doesnt support your position.

If you dont know the law and understand its application, how can you suggest its wrong or not being used correctly?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Maybe because daddy paid off the officials. NO, this couldn't happen.

Please support this with evidence.. You know what evidence is right? Its what was used to bring rape charges against the suspect. Also I was not aware his daddy knows the AG and their investigators.. So if you could kindly provide us with a source to support your claim?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Maybe they're waiting until the boys are found guilty of rape in juvenile court, then charge them as adults in the kidnapping.

The crime was committed at a time they were both juveniles.. It doesnt work the way you are suggesting.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Or maybe the people who attended the parties in different jurisdictions are lying and saying that the guys didn't bring her to the party. After all, the poor victim wasn't aware of where she was, so she can't testify that she was moved around.

Possibly... maybe the people at the parties just dont give a damn about the victim and decided to save themselves instead of doing whats right and coming forward with their info. Or should the police drag them all in for interrogations and beatings until you get the info to support your pitchfork prosecution style?

Guilty until beaten innocent?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Here's a gray area and brain twister:
I read somewhere that she was raped in a car at one point, so if that car was parked (or even moving) within two jurisdictions during the rape, who would be responsible for making sure the boys were arrested and charged?

If it occurred within the same county, its the one charge.. If it crosses a county line, it could be prosecuted as one charge since it violated the same state law in a second jurisdiction. If it crosses state lines you can also look at federal prosecution if the crime falls within the US Federal body of Law. It would depend on how the state sets up their jurisdictional boundries.

While its easy to look at the statute to see what rape is, how about you explain to me how criminal counts work.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Fine. You win. I give up.
I know what I heard stated in the video. I know it's a violation of Ohio law to not report a crime. I know it's a violation of Ohio law to not report a dead body (or what you believe to be a dead body).
Say it however you wish, but according to what I've seen/heard in the video and read regarding Ohio law, these guys should be awaiting trial for not reporting what they knew to the proper authorities in a timely manner.

As far as I'm aware, it's a punishable offense in all 50 states if you know a robbery, rape, murder, etc. has been committed and you don't report it to the proper authorities. Steubenville is sending a message to the entire country that it's OK to not report that a crime has occurred.
Hooray.

reply to post by Xcathdra


No you are incorrect on that score. Immunity must be respected by the courts. The witnesses only talked to the police AFTER they got immunity. To use anything they said against them would be a gross violation of their civil rights (ie you have the right to an attorney and the right not to incriminate yourself). Anybody who incriminates themselves under cover of immunity has been denied the right to an attorney and the right to self incrimination.

Tired of Control Freaks

reply to post by Afterthought


What part of Steubenville not investigating this because it occurred outside of their city limitts do you just not understand?

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

No you are incorrect on that score. Immunity must be respected by the courts. The witnesses only talked to the police AFTER they got immunity. To use anything they said against them would be a gross violation of their civil rights (ie you have the right to an attorney and the right not to incriminate yourself). Anybody who incriminates themselves under cover of immunity has been denied the right to an attorney and the right to self incrimination.

Tired of Control Freaks

The witness talked to the invesitgators, not the police.

Secondly immuity comes with conditions. one of those conditions is the tesitmony must be the truth, and the person providing it cannot lie or omit any information. If a person does immunity no longer applies.

With that being said, please show me where the police interviewed this person after they received immunity and please show us what information they have?

As for your last comment that is not true.

reply to post by Xcathdra


It is an Ohio State law that requires people to report crimes they have knowledge about. It has nothing to do with jurisdictions as you're trying to make everyone believe.

Trying to find more about the punishments for not reporting a crime you witnessed or have direct knowledge about, I have located this:
boards.straightdope.com...

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Another poster submitted this:

In many states, becoming actively aware that a felony has been committed and agreeing not to bring it to the attention of law enforcement officials is the crime of "compounding a felony." (New York terminology; "misprision" and other terminological uses are widespread, too.) There are obvious exceptions: a retained attorney, a priest or minister finding out in a (religious) confession or something roughly equivalent, a person who would incriminate himself in some way by doing so (but see "transactional and use immunity").

On the other hand, witnessing or otherwise becoming aware of a misdemeanor or petty offense (traffic infraction, for example) does not usually require its reporting to remain within the law, though certainly one may do so. In fact, some states require that a traffic infraction, to be punishable, must (a) be witnessed personally by a peace officer capable of making an arrest and/or issuing an appearance ticket, (b) be voluntarily confessed to, as in an accident report, or (c) be the subject of a sworn complaint. If you run a stop sign on a deserted road at 3:00 AM, that may be a traffic infraction in some metaphysical sense, but in the absence of one of the above, it's not a prosecutable offense.

So, again, XCathdra, this thread is about the video and what it contains. We aren't concerned with the ones who have been arrested for rape until February 13th rolls around. These boys are being held accountable for their alleged actions and are getting their day in court. I'm concerned with those who have committed crimes according to their own statements and haven't been brought to justice yet.

Here's an interesting and informative article. It seems as though a whole lot of states are getting more aggressive about making it a crime to not report a rape you witnessed or have direct knowledge of.
latimesblogs.latimes.com...

A California lawmaker is trying to make it a crime for witnesses not to report homicides, rapes and other violent attacks.

The legislation, sponsored by Assemblyman Pedro Nava (D-Santa Barbara), was prompted by the gang rape of a 16-year-old Richmond High School student who was attacked for about two hours while at least a dozen witnesses failed to call police. (Richmond police initially said the girl was 15.)

"It is a horrible, horrible indictment on the state of affairs when a 16-year-old blameless girl can be viciously assaulted and anywhere from 10 to 14 witnesses don't do anything about it," Nava said in an interview. "That is shameful."

XCathdra,
Here's the link to the Ohio STATE laws regarding the specifics and punishments for not reporting a crime.
I thought you may want to read it again.
codes.ohio.gov...
Edit to Add:

Effective Date: 03-19-2003; 2008 SB248 04-07-2009

Originally posted by Afterthought
It is an Ohio State law that requires people to report crimes they have knowledge about. It has nothing to do with jurisdictions as you're trying to make everyone believe.

It absolutely does, regardless of how much you dont want it to be true. Since Steubenville has no responsibility in prosecuting a crime, something you contuinually ignore, your blaming them highlights your lack of understanding of how it works.

If the pople in the video are to be prosecuted, its up to the AG since his office is investigating and prosecuting this incident. Continually trying to blame the police does nothing but reinforce the fact you need to learn the law and how it works before trying to continually make a claim that is not true.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Trying to find more about the punishments for not reporting a crime you witnessed or have direct knowledge about, I have located this:
boards.straightdope.com...

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Another poster submitted this:...............................snipped

Again, you are not understanding how prosecution works. It is NOT the responsibility of the police, so continually blaming them for something they have nothing to do with is getting annoying. Secondly, please use state laws for state crimes. You can go the the ligislature web page for any state and you will find a link to their updated laws.

Federal laws in this case will not apply to the rape portion, or any other criminal activity that occurred within the state boundaries of Ohio that are attached to this case, unless it deals with civil rights violations.

Originally posted by Afterthought
So, again, XCathdra, this thread is about the video and what it contains. We aren't concerned with the ones who have been arrested for rape until February 13th rolls around. These boys are being held accountable for their alleged actions and are getting their day in court. I'm concerned with those who have committed crimes according to their own statements and haven't been brought to justice yet.

Then by all means direct your issues to the AG of Ohio and stop blaming entites that have nothing to do with the prosecution of said crime. This would be where knowledge of the law comes in handy, specifically so we could avoid a 3 page back and forth of you making claims that are not true and me continually showing you why they arent true.

Your issue is the the AG and no one else.

Originally posted by Afterthought
XCathdra,
Here's the link to the Ohio STATE laws regarding the specifics and punishments for not reporting a crime.
I thought you may want to read it again.
codes.ohio.gov...
Edit to Add:

Effective Date: 03-19-2003; 2008 SB248 04-07-2009

edit on 10-1-2013 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

yes you have posted time and again.. And time and again ive explained to you its up to the AG, NOT the police, to prosecute those who may have violated it.

You also are ignoring the fact those people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It means that even though you want to drag them in for interrogation, they can tell you to go to hell by invoking their right to remain silent.

That means, in order to prosecute, the AG has to fulfill their burden of proof without the cooperation of the very ones you want tried.

The police have nothing to do with this part... I dont know how many more times I can explain this to you.

Please learn the term prosecutorial discretion.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Afterthought

 

What part of Steubenville not investigating this because it occurred outside of their city limitts do you just not understand?

(Cover your ears. I'm about to use my outdoor voice.)
STEUBENVILLE NEEDS TO LEARN THAT NOT REPORTING A VIOLENT CRIME AND/OR DEATH IS A PUNISHABLE OFFENSE ACCORDING TO THE STATE THEIR TOWN IS A PART OF!!!!!
SOMEONE (I don't much care who) NEEDS TO GET OFF THEIR LAZY BUTT AND GO ARREST NODIANOS AND ANYONE ELSE ON THAT VIDEO THAT STATED DIRECT KNOWLEDGE AND SENSITIVE DETAILS OF THE ALLEGED CRIME.

reply to post by Xcathdra

You also are ignoring the fact those people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

No. I'm not. I just want the proper authorities to make sure these guys get their day in court.
I really don't need to know whose responsibility it is to make this happen. I just want them to do their jobs.