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Hackers leak video of Steubenville, Ohio Rape case.

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posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:43 AM
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I live about 25 minutes from Steubenville on the Ohio River...Martins Ferry to be exact. Steubenville has ALWAYS been a corrupt town, especially since it is right accross the river from Pittsburgh. The majority of homicides and illegal activity is centered around that city so it comes as no surprise that something like this has happened....its probably happened many times before but the whole area is outraged over it. I had no idea it received national coverage already. Its a sad world we live in.




posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 




Then you wonder why innocent until proven guilty ONLY works in a Court of law. I think some people would have already hung these kids, by the tallest branch they could find, if left to their own devices.

Let the system take care of it. It might not be the best system, but If I was innocent, I wouldn't want a bunch of folks with pitchforks judging me......



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by daynj1736
I live about 25 minutes from Steubenville on the Ohio River...Martins Ferry to be exact. Steubenville has ALWAYS been a corrupt town, especially since it is right accross the river from Pittsburgh. The majority of homicides and illegal activity is centered around that city so it comes as no surprise that something like this has happened....its probably happened many times before but the whole area is outraged over it. I had no idea it received national coverage already. Its a sad world we live in.


If you dont mind me asking, why do you think corruption has something to do with the police department and this case?

They are not empowered to investigate a crime that occurs outside of their city limits, which looks like it is the case. The police directed the victim to the Juvenile division who has the authority to investigate crimes committed by minors as well as the juveile court system. The PA of the county requested the AG oversee the case, ceding jurisdiction to that office..

Since no entity in the county is directly involved, how is there corruption with this case?


reply to post by sonnny1
 


Its always easy to slam the system and demand things be done outside of that system.... right up to the point the person criticising it is involved in something where they find themselves in the system.

If people took the drive, energy and ambition they show in these threads and put it to more than just posting, like taking real action to change the system, things might be different.
edit on 10-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Xcathdra

Thank you for your posts on law enforcement and the court system. You are, of course, correct on how things are supposed to work.

However, there are some aspects to this case that I find particularly troubling that I hoping you would comment on.

Given that the primary job of the police or anyone investigating a complaint to preserve the evidence, what do you think about:

1. Police failed to refer victim to hospital for rape kit testing and toxicity testing on August 14, 2012 (2 days after the alleged events.

While it is possible that bathing may have removed semen from the vagina, it is likely that semen remained in the anal cavity. Further, examination by a professional would have identified vaginal and anal tears that may indicate forced sex.

While it is true that the timeline was on the edge for testing blood for roofie, hair and follicle samples can indicate the presence of roofie (I understand that even if roofie had been detected, it would still have remained for the police to prove that the victim did not take the roofie willingly but, it is still a crucial piece of evidence.

2. How did the picture evidence get "accidently" deleted? By professionals who are trained to preserve evidence?

3. How and why did the prosecuting attorney ever speak to the victim and her parents? PA's don't normally get involved until after the complaint has been filed and investigated?

4. Why did a prosecuting attorney, who knew she was in a conflict of interest position, manage to grant immunity to potential witnesses BEFORE recusing herself?

5. I understand that the boys were charged as juveniles. The courts have the uneviable task from trying to consider the needs of all the children involved, both of the victim and the accused. No one really wants to see young lives destroyed by a moment of bad judgement and we are not talking murder here. However, the witness that stepped forward to what happened in the car said the girl had her breasts exposed, had her genitals invaded by fingers and ultimately was sodimized, while unconcious. This is an obvious "no-consent" situation. The charges spoke only to the girl being penetrated by fingers and did not speak to sodomy. This puts a whole different flavor on the this aspect of the incident. There is a vast difference between the girl got felt up while passed out - to speaking about sodomy.

6. There is obvious cyberbullying in this case. Ohio has a cyberbulling law nor does it appear that the evidence of cyberbullying presented to the court. Nor was any evidence of conspiracy to commit a rape presented.

I would also like to comment on the presentation of evidence that the girl 'knows" she wasn't raped by the defense attorney. If you were 16 years old and being cyberbullied about a rape and in some fashion, somebody sends you a message saying something like "hey ****, I know that people have told you that I raped you but you know that I really really like you and I was trying to be your boyfriend. I would never have raped you, you know that, don't you? And you, who hasn't got a friend left in the world - would you reply "you SOB, I don't believe you and I think you did rape me" or would you reply "I know you didn't rape me" and try to retain the friendship of the one possible friend you have left?

Just would like your thoughts on this.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


If you dont mind me asking, why do you think corruption has something to do with the police department and this case?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I'll answer that for you.
myfox8.com...

The website also addresses the issue of the 12-minute video of the teens making jokes about the incident.

“Nothing in Ohio’s criminal statutes makes it a crime for someone to ridicule a rape victim on a video or otherwise say horrible things about another person. Further, nothing in the law allows someone who says repugnant things on Twitter, Facebook, or other Internet sites to be criminally charged for such statements,” according to the site.

“Steubenville Police investigators are caring humans who recoil and are repulsed by many of the things they observe during an investigation. Like detectives in every part of America and the world, they are often frustrated when they emotionally want to hold people accountable for certain detestable behavior but realize that there is no statute that allows a criminal charge to be made.”

He's correct that there's nothing in the statutes stating that it's against the law to make fun of and ridicule a rape victim, but they are conveniently ignoring the statutes that state it's a crime to not report a crime that you have knowledge of as well as not reporting the knowledge of a dead body.
psychology.ohio.gov...


OHIO REVISED CODE
TITLE XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 2921 OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION
§ 2921.22.
Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.
(A) No person, knowing that a felony has been or is being committed, shall knowingly fail to report such information to law enforcement authorities.

(C) No person who discovers the body or acquires the first knowledge of the death of a person shall fail to report the death immediately to a physician whom the person knows to be treating the deceased for a condition from which death at such time would not be unexpected, or to a law enforcement officer, an ambulance service, an emergency squad, or the coroner in a political subdivision in which the body is discovered, the death is believed to have occurred, or knowledge concerning the death is obtained.

(I) Whoever violates division (A) or (B) of this section is guilty of failure to report a crime. Violation of division (A) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. Violation of division (B) of this section is a misdemeanor of the second degree.

(J) Whoever violates division (C) or (D) of this section is guilty of failure to report knowledge of a death, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.


Were the cops half asleep while watching the video?
They must've been because there was more than just jokes on that video. These creeps were revealing intimate knowledge and details. Not reporting a crime and a possible murder and the whereabouts of a dead body are punishable in Ohio. Somebody isn't doing their job and they want the public to think that the video was just a bunch of kids acting badly.
edit on 10-1-2013 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
However, there are some aspects to this case that I find particularly troubling that I hoping you would comment on.
I will do my best.. Just keep in mind that I am not privy to the investigation so my responses are based on my experiences.


Given that the primary job of the police or anyone investigating a complaint to preserve the evidence, what do you think about:

1. Police failed to refer victim to hospital for rape kit testing and toxicity testing on August 14, 2012 (2 days after the alleged events.

The Police referred the situation to the Juvenile Division, who has primary jurisdiction to investigate. Suggesting a course of action when they are not empowered to investigate can cause problems, especially when it involves evidence collection from a victim.




While it is possible that bathing may have removed semen from the vagina, it is likely that semen remained in the anal cavity. Further, examination by a professional would have identified vaginal and anal tears that may indicate forced sex.
Evidence present after a sexual assault depends on a lot of factors in terms of collection and documentation. Secondly do we know that she was not checked at a Hospital after reporting it?




While it is true that the timeline was on the edge for testing blood for roofie, hair and follicle samples can indicate the presence of roofie (I understand that even if roofie had been detected, it would still have remained for the police to prove that the victim did not take the roofie willingly but, it is still a crucial piece of evidence.

When a person gets a blood screen at the hospital, only certain, common drug lines get tested. GHB is a naturally occuring item in a persons system, and standard testing (at least in my area) only checks for this type of drug when specifically requested.

Secondly we would need to see how the rules of evidence view evidence collected by a Hospital and processed by a hospital as opposed to being processed by a state crime lab.




2. How did the picture evidence get "accidently" deleted? By professionals who are trained to preserve evidence?
A good question. When we seize technology were are not allowed to "process" it. We must submit it to the crime lab, specifically to avoid the above (although it's technology so it does fail at times).




3. How and why did the prosecuting attorney ever speak to the victim and her parents? PA's don't normally get involved until after the complaint has been filed and investigated?
A common misconception. The PA is empowered to investigate crimes and genrally have their own investigators. While Police are the primary investigators, its not unheard of for the PA's office to take lead when unusual factors are present.




4. Why did a prosecuting attorney, who knew she was in a conflict of interest position, manage to grant immunity to potential witnesses BEFORE recusing herself?
Was the granting of immunity linked to the conflict of interest? Did the person who was granted immunity have testimony that was critical to the case? There are a lot of reasons imunity is granted, so I can only speculate. However, and offer of immunity, once granted, can be revoked. It would require an action on the part of the person who was granted immunity to violate the agreement (IE the person lied / withheld info etc).




5. I understand that the boys were charged as juveniles. The courts have the uneviable task from trying to consider the needs of all the children involved, both of the victim and the accused. No one really wants to see young lives destroyed by a moment of bad judgement and we are not talking murder here. However, the witness that stepped forward to what happened in the car said the girl had her breasts exposed, had her genitals invaded by fingers and ultimately was sodimized, while unconcious. This is an obvious "no-consent" situation. The charges spoke only to the girl being penetrated by fingers and did not speak to sodomy. This puts a whole different flavor on the this aspect of the incident. There is a vast difference between the girl got felt up while passed out - to speaking about sodomy.
However it doesnt change the fact the players involved are still juveniles. The PA has the option of trying to certify the minors as adults and prosecute them that way, however the US Supreme Court has really cracked down on laws / sentencing of minors when tried as adults.

Secondly, and othe posters have brought this up, exactly how reliable is the testimony of an eye witness who failed to stop what was going on? Failed to report what was going on? Could iot be possible the person was actually involved but is trying to conceal their involvement by playing the "witness" card?





6. There is obvious cyberbullying in this case. Ohio has a cyberbulling law nor does it appear that the evidence of cyberbullying presented to the court. Nor was any evidence of conspiracy to commit a rape presented.
Last I checked this has not offically gone to trial yet, so the evidence you are referring to mayu still be brought up. Just because there is evidence of a crime does not mean it is a crime and secondly we dont have all of the info in terms of the prosecutions case. The questions you are asking now may very well be used in court. Also if you arent charging a person this go around, exposing evidence and risking having that evidence thrown out for whatever reasons in this trial makes it difficult to use that same evidence in a different trial involving the same situation but with different players.

Also please keep in mind that minors also are protected by the first amendment. If you are referring to the comments made by people in the videos, charging them with a crime will present a first amendment constitutional challenge as well.




I would also like to comment on the presentation of evidence that the girl 'knows" she wasn't raped by the defense attorney. If you were 16 years old and being cyberbullied about a rape and in some fashion, somebody sends you a message saying something like "hey ****, I know that people have told you that I raped you but you know that I really really like you and I was trying to be your boyfriend. I would never have raped you, you know that, don't you? And you, who hasn't got a friend left in the world - would you reply "you SOB, I don't believe you and I think you did rape me" or would you reply "I know you didn't rape me" and try to retain the friendship of the one possible friend you have left?

Just would like your thoughts on this.

Tired of Control Freaks


First a defense attorney is required to zealously represent their clients. They are going to introduce evidence that can be argued in several different manners, from supporting his client to supporting the prosecution. As disgusting as people find defense attorneys and the methods they use, people should understand our legal system is considered adversarial for a reason.

Secondly, the victim, if she wants to pursue what you are suggesting above, would be required to take the stand and answer those specific questions. I think people are forgetting that the suspects do not have to take the stand, however their accuser does.

Finally, I think people need to take a step back from the applicable law violations. If you go through the statutes of any state you will always find statutes that look like they apply on their face, but in actuality have no application at all.

Also, just because they are charged with one count of rape, does not mean they cannot be charged with other crimes down the road that are related to this case (so long as its not the same crime).

A general rule of thumb to consider when looking at statutes:
There are two words to pay very close attention to in any statute:
"and" and "or"

If the statute, when listing elements of a crime that must be met in order to violate the statute, provides a list, and after each elemet says "and", it means ALL elements must be met. If it uses the word "or" after an element, it means the elements can be met one by one (IE the entire list does not have to be met to violate the statute).

Also - the term "Lesser included Offense" is another one.
When you start hitting higher crimes (felonies) you run into whats called lesser included offenses.

Example - If a person breaks into a house when people are out of town, they can be charged with either 2nd Burglary or trespassing, but not both. Trespassing is a lesser included offense of burglary (IE the person had to trespass in order to gain access to the residence).

I linked to Ohio's Sexual Offense section. As people can see there are a lot of offense present that fit the situation, however with rape being at the top, it means other crimes in the section, lesser crimes, are most likely lesser included offenses to the rape charge.

I hope this answers some of your questions.. If you want clarification or I missed the point let me know.
edit on 10-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
He's correct that there's nothing in the statutes stating that it's against the law to make fun of and ridicule a rape victim, but they are conveniently ignoring the statutes that state it's a crime to not report a crime that you have knowledge of as well as not reporting the knowledge of a dead body.
psychology.ohio.gov...


OHIO REVISED CODE
TITLE XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 2921 OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION
§ 2921.22.
Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.
(A) No person, knowing that a felony has been or is being committed, shall knowingly fail to report such information to law enforcement authorities.

(C) No person who discovers the body or acquires the first knowledge of the death of a person shall fail to report the death immediately to a physician whom the person knows to be treating the deceased for a condition from which death at such time would not be unexpected, or to a law enforcement officer, an ambulance service, an emergency squad, or the coroner in a political subdivision in which the body is discovered, the death is believed to have occurred, or knowledge concerning the death is obtained.

(I) Whoever violates division (A) or (B) of this section is guilty of failure to report a crime. Violation of division (A) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. Violation of division (B) of this section is a misdemeanor of the second degree.

(J) Whoever violates division (C) or (D) of this section is guilty of failure to report knowledge of a death, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.


Were the cops half asleep while watching the video?
They must've been because there was more than just jokes on that video. These creeps were revealing intimate knowledge and details. Not reporting a crime and a possible murder and the whereabouts of a dead body are punishable in Ohio. Somebody isn't doing their job and they want the public to think that the video was just a bunch of kids acting badly.
edit on 10-1-2013 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)


Regardless of the statute did the people in the video live within the city limits of Steubenville when the video was made? Secondly, the rape itself occurred outside of the city limits, so they are not empowered to investigate the crime in the first place.

EVEN IF the people on the video lived within city limits when they made the video / comments, its linked into the case the AG of Ohio is investigating and prosecuting. It is their responsibility, not that of the police department, to go down that road. The PA of the county already ceded jurisdiction, so anything involved with this case falls under the purview of the AG's office, not the PA nor the police / sheriff.

Since you took the time to point out the statute, let me direct you to this one -
2913.04 Unauthorized use of property - computer, cable, or telecommunication property
How did some of this information come about? From hacking computers / email accounts.

This might be why we are where we are -
Legal term - Fruit of the Poisonous Tree

n. in criminal law, the doctrine that evidence discovered due to information found through illegal search or other unconstitutional means (such as a forced confession) may not be introduced by a prosecutor. The theory is that the tree (original illegal evidence) is poisoned and thus taints what grows from it. For example, as part of a coerced admission made without giving a prime suspect the so-called "Miranda warnings" (statement of rights, including the right to remain silent and what he/she says will be used against them), the suspect tells the police the location of stolen property. Since the admission cannot be introduced as evidence in trial, neither can the stolen property.


Now, if we explore that some more, you are suggesting the people in the video be prosecuted. Fair enough, but when the evidence was illegally obtained via hacking, I dont see it getting far in court before is challenged and a motion to exclude is made.

I stated it before in other threads.. hacking groups who pull these stunts, who dont bother to educate themselves about the law, can make a massive mess of what should be a good case.

if you are going to go after all parties, then the hacking groups must be on the list as well for their illegal actions.

So I ask again, where is the corruption?
edit on 10-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


xcathdra

There are several points that I disagree with you on. First of all - the juvenile division is still part of the police department and the investigators or officers must still follow standard procedures.

When the police department takes NO action to preserve evidence (ie rape kit / toxicology testing) and in fact admit that they are responsible for the deletion of evidence - they can hardly be characterized as conducting an investigation "by the book".

As for the PA - whether or not they have their own investigators - she knew she was in conflict of interest, she apparently had contact with the parents and the victim BEFORE a complaint was ever filed and was in a position to be criticized when she granted immunity to witnesses.

I repeat - this is hardly a "by the book" investigation.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


xcathdra

There are several points that I disagree with you on. First of all - the juvenile division is still part of the police department and the investigators or officers must still follow standard procedures.

Im not sure about Ohio, but the 2 states I have been in law enforcement in the juvenile officers are not part of the police department. They are completely separate entites with their own procedures and rules of evidence because it deals with minors.





When the police department takes NO action to preserve evidence (ie rape kit / toxicology testing) and in fact admit that they are responsible for the deletion of evidence - they can hardly be characterized as conducting an investigation "by the book".
An agency that decides to involve itself in an investigation its not empowered to investigate could cause all evidence collectd to be thrown out, especially when they know from the start its outside of their jurisdiction. Secondly, contreary to popular belief a rape kit cannot be forced on a victim. The collection of evidence from a victim cannot be forced either.

Third - which agency deleted the picture? The police, sheriff, PA's office, the AG's office or the state crime lab?




As for the PA - whether or not they have their own investigators - she knew she was in conflict of interest, she apparently had contact with the parents and the victim BEFORE a complaint was ever filed and was in a position to be criticized when she granted immunity to witnesses.


Tired of Control Freaks



Fair enough.. since its not by the book, please show me where in Ohio Statutes / Rules of conduct and ethics for officers of the court / where it says this is not by the book.

i ask the question not to be an ass, but to demostrate that simply stating something is wrong is not enough and often times off base. Why was the person granted immunity? Has the AG continued with that immunity? Does the AG have plans to go after the individual down the road?

We dont know and we dont have all of the information.. Until we do, stating something is wrong / not by the book is speculation. Let the process work and go from there. Also, as I pointed out to the other poster, the lack of prosecution on some of these people could very well be a result of the hacking group and their illegal manner in which they exposed some of the crimes.



I repeat - this is hardly a "by the book" investigation.

The Police are not empowered to investigate this crime.
The Sheriff's Office is not empowered to investigate this crime.
The PA's office was, and has since recused themselves and ceded jurisdiction to the AG to ensure not aonly a proper independent ivnestigation, but also prosecution.

Im not sure how much more by the book you need.

If we arent going by the book, this would still be handleed by local authorities and the county PA.

Its not, and we have the feds ivnesitgating the situation.. That tells me the book is being followed.


A conflict of interest between the PA and a person invovled in an investigation does not mean the entire PA's office has to recuse themselves.

Its like me pulling a person over for DWI and realizing I know the person.. I have called other officers over to continue the investigation that goes beyond my initial stop. It does not mean the entire department has to rescuse themselves.
edit on 10-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


but If I was innocent, I wouldn't want a bunch of folks with pitchforks judging me......



If you were innocent, would you make drunken videos where you admit to crimes that you did not commit?



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Xcathdra

In Steubanville Ohio, according to the website Steubanville Facts sponsored by the City of Steubanville and the Steubanville Police Department

steubenvillefacts.squarespace.com...


The Police Department has only one officer who exclusively investigates juvenile crime. That juvenile officer was the original investigator in this case. That officer graduated from an out of state high school. His children attend another school district.


So let us dispense with any notion that a "juvenile officer" is anything less than a full police officer and an investigator, trained to preserve evidence. Regardless of who in the State of Ohio should do the analysis for a rape kit and toxicity testing, it simply was not done and and as a result, crucial evidence was lost (not to mention the pictures that were "accidently" deleted).

As for conflict of interests - here are all the guidelines for the State of Ohio

www.supremecourt.ohio.gov...

However, Jane Hanlin knew that she was in a conflict of interest and clearly declared that she was in conflict of interest on August 29, 2011 in this case but still granted immunity to witnesses.

Again - hardly a "by the book" investigation

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


The video was already in the hands of authorities before the hacking occurred, so I don't see how it could be thrown out.

I'm interested to hear your views about why the officials are saying that the video only contains jokes instead of the real meat known as EVIDENCE OF KNOWLEDGE OF A CRIME. Why are they trying to make the public think that it's just full of fluff and "boys being boys" when it's not? It truly seems as though the Good 'ol Boys Club is trying to run damage control by pretending that the video is less important than it truly is.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Why are you so defensive?One does not have to be an expert in law to comment on this very public trial. The Ohio judicial sytem is a example of the corruption that has infected most small and large cities,and it seems people are tired of it.Sick and tired of having two set of laws for those who can and do buy their way out of justice
People are demanding justice for this girl and it's not just about the rape it's gone well beyond that.There so many issues surrounding this crime that most people feel,at least I feel the chances that this girl will get justice are slim to none.



No matter what the law says at this point it is a public trial with a public judge and jury in the streets demanding justice....will they get it?And what will happen if they don't?
Regardless of what I think and what I want, these stupid stupid boys committed a horrendous crime against this girl and should pay(as adults) for what they have done.Not only for her but to show the rest of the nation that our system can and does work for all who are victims of crime,not just for the rich and connected

You don't have to know the law to come to this conclusion...


edit on 10-1-2013 by TWILITE22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by TWILITE22
 


Twilite22

I completely appreciate your passion however, I cannot agree with your conclusion.

Evidence is still evidence and the law is still the law.

We cannot and must not allow an innocent man to be convicted - even is we have to let 10 guilty mean go free.

In this case, the behavior of the adults involved appears to be particularly shocking and I am confident that, in time, justice will not only be done but be seen to be done.

As for the boys - the evidence must clearly support the charges and there many many holes in this case that must be answered (for one - was she roofied or was she drunk, was there a conspiracy to commit rape in revenge for breaking up with a boy, who raped her and how do we prove that there was no consent)

You may not like to hear this and certainly I think Xchandra is being a little disingenius in how he presents his arguments but he is not far off.

Convictions are harder to get then you may think and it is often the case, that charges are downgraded, not by choice, but because that is what the available evidence supports.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
So let us dispense with any notion that a "juvenile officer" is anything less than a full police officer and an investigator, trained to preserve evidence.

You are missing the point....

A Juvenile Officer is a Police Officer... A Police Officer is NOT a Juvenile Officer. There is a massive difference between the 2, which revolves around area of responsibility. Secondly, as has been stated time and again and ignored time and again, the rape occured OUTSIDE the city limits, meaning Juvenile Officer or not, its not their jurisdiction to investigate Hence the reason they referred the victim to the juvenile Office.


www.theverge.com...
Regardless of who in the State of Ohio should do the analysis for a rape kit and toxicity testing, it simply was not done and and as a result, crucial evidence was lost (not to mention the pictures that were "accidently" deleted).
Why was the rape kit not done?
Why didnt the victim go to the hospital after it occurred?
Why didnt the victim report the rape after it occurred?

While I get the tone, which is to blame the officals for everything, there is plenty of blame to go around. Police cannot go forward with an investigation when there is no victim.

What was crucial about the photo that was deleted?
How much crucial information was removed from the 11 other cell phones the AG collected and processed as evidence?
As I stated, a rape kit cant be forced... I can tell a rape victim to go to the hospital all I want but in the end its not something I, or any officer, can force.

One would assume the parents would ahve been on top of the medical exam as well....




www.theverge.com...
As for conflict of interests - here are all the guidelines for the State of Ohio

www.supremecourt.ohio.gov...

However, Jane Hanlin knew that she was in a conflict of interest and clearly declared that she was in conflict of interest on August 29, 2011 in this case but still granted immunity to witnesses.

Again - hardly a "by the book" investigation

Tired of Control Freaks




Right you keep using the same line over and over.. She recused herself..

Ive asked a few times now and you have ignored it.. Has the AG continued immunity for the person that it was granted to? Who is the person who was given immunity? What information did theuy have that allowed that deal to be made? What did that person see / hear?

specualtion is all fine and dandy, until specific questions are asked and no one can seem to answer them in this thread.

She recused herself... Conflict of intrest ended.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


The video was already in the hands of authorities before the hacking occurred, so I don't see how it could be thrown out.

I'm interested to hear your views about why the officials are saying that the video only contains jokes instead of the real meat known as EVIDENCE OF KNOWLEDGE OF A CRIME. Why are they trying to make the public think that it's just full of fluff and "boys being boys" when it's not? It truly seems as though the Good 'ol Boys Club is trying to run damage control by pretending that the video is less important than it truly is.


The Chief already explained what was in the video and how it was viewed.. The only opinion that matters in terms of a crime being committed in the video or no belongs to that of the AG of Ohio.

Being we dont have all of the information they do, maybe someone should ask them?

Let me throw this out there though -
Knowledge of a crime?

they said she was dead? The victim is very much alive...
they said she was raped? There is conflicting information on that accusation from one of the accused.

The people in the video were visibily intoxicated, which is the requirement for a minor in possession by consumption, which means mental culpability can be called into question, which is to say just because they are saying it, does not mean its accurate or true.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


So, if I'm being video taped while drunk and discussing how someone was beaten to a pulp and the weapon used as well as the names of those who performed the beating, then state that I believe the person is dead, I won't be arrested for not reporting what I know because the person lived and I was drunk?

OK. Thanks for your professional opinion. If I ever find myself in this situation, I'll refer to this thread and state for my defense that a self proclaimed officer of the law said this is a gray area and should probably not be considered prosecutorial evidence.

Oh, and another thing. I don't see any evidence in the video that these guys are drunk during the filming. I don't recall seeing a beer bottle or even a red plastic cup. I don't recall anyone saying that they're drunk either. Although I may be wrong since you cannot hear everything clearly.
edit on 10-1-2013 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by TWILITE22
Why are you so defensive?

Im not being defensive at all.. I am explaining how things work and people are ignoring it because they dont like it. Not much else I can do.....



Originally posted by TWILITE22
One does not have to be an expert in law to comment on this very public trial. The Ohio judicial sytem is a example of the corruption that has infected most small and large cities,and it seems people are tired of it.

The irony in this comment is just awsome....




Originally posted by TWILITE22
Sick and tired of having two set of laws for those who can and do buy their way out of justice

Ignorance for the win... Please explain this comment and apply it to this exact situation and please use examples.



Originally posted by TWILITE22
People are demanding justice for this girl and it's not just about the rape it's gone well beyond that.
being the accused have been charged with rape, I'd say its pretty much stopped, and not gone beyond...


Originally posted by TWILITE22
There so many issues surrounding this crime that most people feel,at least I feel the chances that this girl will get justice are slim to none.
That is because people are refusing to educate themselves on how the law works and woudl rather complain and bellyache about things that have nothing to do with the situation at hand. If you dont think she is getting justice then please tell me why 2 people have been charged with raping her? Please tell me why the AG is responsible for this ivnesitgation AND prosecution, instead of the police, sheriff and the PA, all of which are being bashed by people who dont understand they ahve nothng to do with it at all?



Originally posted by TWILITE22
No matter what the law says at this point it is a public trial with a public judge and jury in the streets demanding justice....will they get it?
this type of mentality is the problem.. its this type of mentality that resulted in the rape of the victim... It is not a public trial, contrary to what the misinformed may think.

Demanding justice? Go for it, as all it will do is place you at the exact same elvel as the 2 morons who decided the law didnt apply to them when they raped the girl.

its nice to know just how far hypocrisy will take a person when they demand justice.




Originally posted by TWILITE22
And what will happen if they don't?

Then it is what it is... Our legal system cannot walk on water, and neither can you, nor I nor anyone else in this thread, on this site, or on this planet. We are not prfect beings, and since the legal system is a creation by us, its not perfect either. Expecting it to be perfect is a set up for failure and denying the accused their rights, again, makes those people no better than the accused.



Originally posted by TWILITE22
Regardless of what I think and what I want, these stupid stupid boys committed a horrendous crime against this girl and should pay(as adults) for what they have done.Not only for her but to show the rest of the nation that our system can and does work for all who are victims of crime,not just for the rich and connected

And the people of the State of Ohio would disagree with you, along with the US Supreme Court.



Originally posted by TWILITE22
You don't have to know the law to come to this conclusion...

No but knowing the law allows people to be informed about whats going on instead of calling for a course of action that is no different than raping a girl - violation of the law based on arrogance, ignorance and just plain stupidity.

Sadly, the village idiot comes to that conclusion before the Nobel Laureate....



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
So, if I'm drunk and discussing how someone was beaten to a pulp and the weapon used as well as the names of those who performed the beating, then state that I believe the person is dead. I won't be arrested for not reporting what I know because the person lived and I was drunk?

Again, the Police dont charge people with crimes, the PA does that. So even if you are arrested does not mean you will be prosecuted for it.

Secondly, since people seem to be getting hung up on trivialities, it goes beyond just the statute. Intent comes to mind, mens rhea comes to mind, does the prosecution of this person serve the puiblic interest, and if so why, and in what way would the prosecution be a psotivie outcome? What would a prosecution of the individual accomplish? Where did you get the information? Is the information accurate? What were you doing at the time of the incident? What were you drinking? What was your mental state?

A person needs to know more than just the law.. hence the reason this stuff is tried in a court of law and not a court of public opinion.


Originally posted by Afterthought
OK. Thanks for your professional opinion. If I ever find myself in this situation, I'll refer to this thread and state for my defense that a self proclaimed officer of the law said this is a gray area and should probably not be considered prosecutorial evidence.

Wise ass all you want, it still requires you to understand the law. What part of police dont prosecute are you just not comprehending? Are you so pissed that your willing to behave in an absolute stupid manner just so you can say something bad about law enforcement? That would be like me statting that because you think something is a crime, as an officer of the law im going to make an arrest.

Secondly, and ive refrained from using it but not now, ignorance of the law is no excuse.



Originally posted by Afterthought
Oh, and another thing. I don't see any evidence in the video that these guys are drunk during the filming. I don't recall seeing a beer bottle or even a red plastic cup. I don't recall anyone saying that they're drunk either. Although I may be wrong since you cannot hear everything clearly.

When you are under the age of 21, and the state / county / city has a law for minor in possession by consumption (which is different than minor in possession), the standard is visibly intoxicated. You have slurred speech, glassy / watery eyes, inability to concentrate, inability to multi task, inability for the person to tell the same story correctly more than once without details changing.

Finally, prove to me the person in the video was present and the time of the event.

As ive stated, we dont have all the evidence, so the 100 meter ruish to judgement while crucifying anyone who doesnt call for a lynching needs to be toned down.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Stop it with the who arrests and who prosecutes crap.
I already said that I understood the police arrest and the prosecutor charges. Drop it already.
The video was in the hands of the police, so I would believe that they would be responsible for arresting the boys in the video for not reporting the crime within 72 hours just like the law dictates to be a punishable offense.

If once the police arrested them and the prosecutor decides not to charge them, fine. It's still the police's responsibility to bring those who may be guilty in for at least further questioning. I don't believe they even did this though since they believe there was nothing but jokes being tossed around. Since they believe this and I've watched the video, I have no respect for the officers in Steubenville. They are taking the comments in the video way too lightly and aren't following their own laws stating that it's a crime to not report a crime as well as the fact that you know the whereabout of a dead body.

Really, XCathdra? One doesn't have to be a police officer to see that these individuals should've at least been arrested and brought in for obstructing the law. What if the girl was dying while they were telling jokes and stating specifics of the crime? I guess if she would've died, then they would've been arrested. I find this to be abhorrent.



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