Hackers leak video of Steubenville, Ohio Rape case.

reply to post by iwilliam


"Yeah, I don't understand why we're not allowed to use names that are appearing in mainstream news sources..

That's one of the most ridiculous incidents of censorship I've seen around here, and that's really saying something. "

And that's really saying something agreed

It really doesn't make any sense at all the excuses they give for that crap.(well unless someone getting some heat for certain stories that might be leaking real truths ^^) if a name and an address are in a phone book, guess what, ITS NOT PRIVATE!!! So unless ats users are hacking all the way to the bank to get this information which I doubt we are, its all public information. There is tons of stuff that could be considered "private" but guess what, its public domain and can be had by most local town halls for a processing fee of 5 bucks or less. private and sensative data are two completely different things, most peoples lives are not private as they think.

If a news source or outlet post information or broadcasts it, guess what, it just became public domain heh. If someone post on faceable, twitter,youtube or any other social media. You guessed it, its public domain. Let alone how are you are supposed to talk about a subject with out using the subject matter that is already being used in mainstreme media is beyond me lol but w/e

Well you see the thing took the thing and hit the thing over the head, the other thing then ran for life to the thing at the address of the other places thing for safety.

Gets to be a pretty boring topic real quick ^^ ROFL, and so do the excuses for closed threads and deleted posts. But again its their site wanna whine?, gotta comply heh or go to one of the other 5 million conspiracy sites heh.

But I always say when you are being censored, you know you are on the right track ^^ I take it as a compliment because you know you are getting close to the truth and have ruffled someone's feathers.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

The age of the people at the time of this occurrence are all 16 years old,

Somebody hasn't been paying attention.

uhm ok....

from the op sources -

Social media casts spotlight on Ohio rape case

The alleged attackers also are juveniles, but they have been identified by a judge in court, by defense attorneys and in newspapers and other media reports as Trent Mays and Ma'lik Richmond, both 16.

A kidnapping charge was dropped by the Juvenile Court judge at a probable cause hearing last October, said McCafferty and Mays's attorney, Adam Nemann.

Hopefully the video will cause these bastards get what they deserve.

I know this is kind off topic, but I resent the fact that I posted this article a week ago and it was removed by the moderators and I quote "No there isn't an open thread on it and we just can't allow one. Sorry. "

So much for setting a standard, eh?

Anyway, yeah this is tragic. Good on Anonymous for taking charge on this and doing something about it. It's obvious that corrupt law enforcement refuse to do much if anything.
All of these kids need to be tried as adults. Especially that pedophile pervert James - what a disgusting example of a human being.

I had to walk away from this thread for a while. Once I started reading the comments on other articles, I really started to get upset. To those who commented on the particular quote I mentioned, I can see how it can be taken in a different context, but I'm still not truly convinced.

I also see that censorship is now happening. Truly dispicable.
The names that are being redacted are those who are guilty of (at least) having knowledge and proof of the crime and did not report it.
NOT REPORTING A CRIME TO THE PROPER AUTHORITIES (corrupt or not) IS A CRIME.
These guys don't deserve to have their identities protected. They do deserve to have their day in court.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So, I take it you're satisfied that only two people have been charged?
Are you aware that one of the guys who most likely witnessed the crime was an adult?
Do you believe that those who don't report crimes should be allowed to walk free?
Do you believe that those who witnessed a crime and chose not to stop the crime or help the victim should be allowed to walk free among those who have higher moral standards?
Are you completely satisfied with how the Steubenville police and prosecutors have handled themselves thus far?
Do you honestly believe that all potentially guilty parties are in the hands of the authorities?

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

So, I take it you're satisfied that only two people have been charged?

Im not sure where you pulled the above from being I never said I was satisfied. I explained how the system works to those who have no clue about the judicial system and the why's.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Are you aware that one of the guys who most likely witnessed the crime was an adult?

Your point?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Do you believe that those who don't report crimes should be allowed to walk free?

Of course not however knowledge of a crime after the fact does not meet the requirements to charge a person with failing to report a crime. With that being said, and the part you are ignoring, is its up too the prosecutor to file charges, not the police / law enforcement.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Do you believe that those who witnessed a crime and chose not to stop the crime or help the victim should be allowed to walk free among those who have higher moral standards?

Being they are uinnocent until proven guilty in a court of law it is what it is.

Have you bothered to educate yourself about the laws in Ohio? Have you ever thought that what you think should be a crime in actuality is not one? People seem to be ignoring how laws work..

Its like the rape case in California.. The suspect was freed not because he was acquitted but because the charge was dismissed because it did not apply. In that incident the law on the books for that type of rape was established in the 1870's.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Are you completely satisfied with how the Steubenville police and prosecutors have handled themselves thus far?

Do you have ALL of the facts / evidence from the case to answer that question yourself?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Do you honestly believe that all potentially guilty parties are in the hands of the authorities?

I believe that while this is tragic, a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and not publiuc opinion.

As you stated to me maybe you should get all the info before coming to conclusions / assuming what my position is. If you read my posts you would see I posted the law enforcement / judicial position. Educating people on the how's and why's does not mean I dont agree with the people who are pissed at the police / judicial system.

If peopleare going to make accusations about how the system does not work, then dont you think they should at least understand / educate themselves first? Its easy to post negative opinions however it does not solve the over all issue.

A person cannot claim something does not work when they dont understand it in the first place.

To address some other comments ive seen throughout the thread...
While I understand the urge to paint these suspects as guilty, they arent until a court says so. As disturbing as some may find that concept, the moment you are accused of a crime your reaction is going to be you are innocent until proven guilty.

REspectfully please take the time to read and understand my posts before accusing me of something that is untrue.

reply to post by Xcathdra


A person isn't required to report a crime after the fact? You're so delusional.
Did you watch the video?
The ADULT (yes, this matters) in the video stating all sorts of sensitive information even believes that the girl is dead.
If you actually believe that he had no responsibility to call the police to report that a dead body was within the county limits AND the names of the potential murderers, you are also of quesitonable character.

According to Ohio state Twitter feed, one of the people implicated in the rape is no longer a student at the University: Ohio State Twitter. I find it hard to imagine that there would not be a more official response than on Twitter.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I also see that censorship is now happening. Truly dispicable.
The names that are being redacted are those who are guilty of (at least) having knowledge and proof of the crime and did not report it.
NOT REPORTING A CRIME TO THE PROPER AUTHORITIES (corrupt or not) IS A CRIME.
These guys don't deserve to have their identities protected. They do deserve to have their day in court.

I believe that all the tip-toeing is for the fact that alot of those involved are juveniles. For those that are not juveniles it is based on the fact that they have not been charged with any crimes and using names in conjunction with what has reportedly happened is grounds for slander and libel if it is found to be in error. Everyone is innocent until 100% PROVEN guilty in a court of law. I don't think anyone would feel like a good person if they dragged an innocent man's name through the mud (or worse), I mean in general, not just in this case. Now I will agree that with all that has been reported that in my opinion that most of them are as guilty as sin, but alas I am not a court of law, it is just my opinion of what happened based on the things that have been made public knowledge.

I think the real crime here is we need to seriously take a look at the penalties for those that are involved. I think the age of reason needs to be lowered. What is this crap that if they are under 18 that they have no understanding of right and wrong. Alot of juveniles in my opinion commit crimes because they know that they will only get a slap on the wrist when they are under 18 and that the records will be wiped clean when they reach 18. In my opinion once someone hits the age of 14 or so they have a good idea of what is right and what is wrong. Maybe it is time that anyone over that age committing a crime of violence (unless they are proven mentally handicapped or insane) are tried as an adult automatically and any guilty findings should stick with them for life, not erased as if by etch-a-sketch.

Secondly the adults involved implicated in participation and covering up the incident also need to be brought to justice. This is not saying they are guilty as again, I am not a court of law. However, to ignore the fact that it certainly seems that there was alot of corruption here is also a crime against justice. There needs to be more charges brought up and people need to lose thier jobs. How can we as citizens have faith in a system if that system doesn't even try to punish people that are guilty of crimes that have apparently been committed? This is not new news, I think alot of people are willing to admit that justice (or lack thereof) in this country for a very long time has been about "How much money do you have?", and "Who do you know?". That is the real problem, the law needs to get back to the "FOR THE PEOPLE" crowd, because it has been for the "WHO DO YOU KNOW?" crowd for waaaaaaay to long!

Changes need to be made, people need to stand up and let it be known that we are tired of a system that works this way. A system that ignores justice for the victims based on the bank statements or influence of the accused. A system that is flawed and corrupt in all 3 branches of local and federal government. The founding fathers made a really good system of government and if everyone had played by the rules a daresay it would have been near perfect if not indeed perfect. The problem is there are cheaters that are not playing by the rules.

Anyway I don't want to get off topic and I am walking that fine line at this moment. The owners and moderators of this site are trying to allow free speech, while simultaneously trying to protect themselves from libel and slander so I understand where they come from. They have to be careful, for the best interest of not only themselves but those that are posting on the site. I will agree that this case should be watched VERY closely. I am going to be beyond disappointed if nobody else gets charged of crimes committed. I am already angry that the accused being tried as adults was dropped and the kidnapping charges magically disappeared. All I can say is watch it closely. Keep up with it, don't let yourself get distracted with forgetting about this victim. They want you to forget, does anyone else wonder why the "right of a speedy trial" has not been the case for a very long time? If justice takes a long time the average person loses interest and that is when the back room deals happen and rightful punishment does not get meted out.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

A person isn't required to report a crime after the fact? You're so delusional.

Wow you need to stop moving the goal posts when I call you out and again stop stating I said something when I didnt.

What I said was reporting a crime after the fact is not neccisarily criminal. Having knowledge of a crime that is going to take place and not reporting it would be a crime. Witnessing a crime and failing to identify as a witness, in some states, is a crime. Going to youtube and watching a video and not reporting it is not a crime.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Did you watch the video?
The ADULT (yes, this matters) in the video stating all sorts of sensitive information even believes that the girl is dead.

Again you seem lost in this conversation.. I am not debating the case with you. What I did was explain the part of the process that everyone seems to have issues with even though they dont understand it.

Originally posted by Afterthought
If you actually believe that he had no responsibility to call the police to report that a dead body was within the county limits AND the names of the potential murderers, you are also of quesitonable character.

Again, stop claiming I said this or that and pay attention.

Ill try this one more time with you.. My posts were to explain the criminal justice side, not to argue / debate the situation. People are pissed because of this or that, and I took the time to explain those "this" and "that".

Originally posted by PuterMan

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
good and bad with this- some crimes may get uncovered which otherwise were not known, the downside is that a few individuals have the power to decide to release details of individuals who may be completely innocent

One has to observe that individuals names who are found in the documents 'lifted' are in all probability unlikely to be completely innocent otherwise their names would not appear.

maybe, maybe not- just some dude in a mask gets to decide it, that is my point

reply to post by Xcathdra


Things have to change. The law has many loopholes that allow people to go free.
I don't know if you followed the Casey Anthony trial, but because of how it was handled, they had to pass Caylee's Law where it made it a crime if parents didn't report their child missing within 24 hours.
It's terrible that more laws have to made because people are so immoral and irresponsible, but if that's what needs to be done so charges can be brought against these people, we'll just be looking at more and more laws.
I guess the next law that will have to be drawn up is if you're aware a rape has occured and don't report it, you can also be held liable for not doing the right and proper thing.

reply to post by Darkphoenix77


Yes, I agree. This is a sticky situation.
I have to put myself in the victim's place. If I were raped and the witnesses didn't help me and didn't report it, I'd want them brought up on charges.
If I were actually dying somewhere and these same people were using my last moments to make fun of me being dead and how I came to be in this condition instead of making sure I got the assistance I needed to save me, I'd want them brought up on charges.
I really don't understand how someone can believe that someone is dead or dying and does nothing.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Things have to change. The law has many loopholes that allow people to go free.

i agree, which means people who are outraged over this should get involved with government to push for those changes. One could argue that by complaining about a flawed process and doing nothing to effect change makes the person doing nothing just as flawed as the law.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I don't know if you followed the Casey Anthony trial, but because of how it was handled, they had to pass Caylee's Law where it made it a crime if parents didn't report their child missing within 24 hours.

We shouldnt need a law like this solely because parents, and not the government, are responsible for their children. Secondly not reporting a child as missing does not always mean there is foul play or sinister intentions. I have worked my share of "kidnapping" lost" children calls where there was a breadown in communication between parents / legal guardians.

Originally posted by Afterthought
It's terrible that more laws have to made because people are so immoral and irresponsible, but if that's what needs to be done so charges can be brought against these people, we'll just be looking at more and more laws.

Ex post Facto is a baaaaad idea, not to mention unconstitutional. Secondly thinking a person is immoral / irresponsible does not always mean a crime occured.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I guess the next law that will have to be drawn up is if you're aware a rape has occured and don't report it, you can also be held liable for not doing the right and proper thing.

Fair enough but let me ask you this hypothetical to demostrate just how complicated legalities can be.

Hypothetical -
Using your position above, not reporting a rape being a criminal act.

Would you support the arrest of a rape victim who opted not to report the rape herself? How about a rape victim telling a friend they were raped but did not want to do anything about it. Why should the friend be charged if the victim herself doesnt want to report it?

How about this -
In my state a 17 year old male can have consensual sex with a 16 year old female. Under the law its legal. However, because the female is 16, and considered a minor, the parents (should they find out about the sexual relations) can contact the police and file a criminal complaint against the male, who is an adult at 17 in my state, under statutory rape laws.

A crime, in general, requires 2 basic elements -
1. A violation of the law.
2. A victim

There are very very few instances where #2 is irrelevent (usually Domestic violence where the state can prosecute without the cooperation of a victim). The mindset goes back to the abuser abusing the victim in order to get them to drop charges, which occurred regularly before the laws were changed.

The one concept people have a hard time understanding is the misunderstood notion that we protect suspects rights while we ignore the victims rights. The legal system is the the forum to argue that exact concept.

Being this case involves minors I can guarantee you that we do not have all of the facts / information.

Some other food for thought -
What if a person, unbeknownst to the football players, slipped the female a drug without her knowing. What if the result of that drug effects the females decision making process. What if she agreed to have sex because of the effects of the drug?

What if the girl consented and afterwards goes to police and makes a claim of rape?

What if the person concsents and 2 months later they break up, and to get even the charge is made?

I am not conding the actions and im not stating that is what occurred. What I am trying to do is point out that there are a LOT of factors that must be taken into account. The system is designed with the mindset that its better to let a criminal go than to put an innocent person in jail.

A court of public opinion should not ever be used in place of a court of law.

XCATHDRA -

You need to watch the video and stop making excuses for your judicial system.

These 'juveniles' had full knowledge of what happened and from what is being reported,
it seems VERY PREMEDITATED.
Your counrty should be making a stance like INDIA is presently doing instead of looking for loopholes
as a justification to let the accusers off with a minor sentence.

This is a very cut and dried case (due to the video) and standing behind a corrupt law does not help anyone!

I would suggest you refrain from commenting UNTIL you watch the video as you are painting yourself as
a Stuebenville Patriot.
If you do watch the video - think of that girl as your mother/sister or daughter.

As far as the accusers are concerned - anyone whom is a good parent has taught their children from a young age that it is not okay for someone to touch you in your private areas without mutual consent..
So yes - the accusers NEW what they were doing is punishable by law and shoud be held accountable!!!

Please watch the ENTIRE video before giving us your LAW debate.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I'm not going to touch the statutory rape instance. That has nothing to do with this situation and it would take this thread off topic. I know this is a very gray area and won't muddy the thread by discussing it. I will state that some states are combating this issue by having some of these instances fall under the Romeo and Juliet Law.

I also believe that the victim reserves the right ALWAYS to decide for themselves if charges should be filed. As we've already seen with this case, there is talk that another rape happened and was covered up. If victims feel as though they are going up against a system that feels more sympathy for the perps than the victims, why bother? Maybe things would change if our flawed system was renamed the Victim Justice System.

Also, in regards to the victim pressing charges or not, we can easily see how this has altered the way domestic violence is handled. Now, if the cops come upon a domestic violence situation, the cops will arrest both parties AND can bring charges against the SUPPOSEDLY guilty party because the victim won't. People sometimes make bad decisions that help perps go free. Sometimes the law has to step in to prevent the victim and others from being hurt by the individual. Do I feel that the victim should be arrested for not reporting or pressing charges? Of course not.

More and more I'm seeing that we in society are expected to have more sympathy for those who have been charged rather than the victim. I just can't think this way. The ones being charged are getting their opportunity to prove their innocence and the law is obliging their rights. What more do they need? They're getting exactly what they're entitled to receive.

In closing, I'm reminded of the young boys in the movie "Stand By Me". Even though this is a fictional situation, even these young boys (in the year 1959) knew that a dead body needed to be reported to the authorities.
en.wikipedia.org...(film)

They locate the body and it reminds Gordie that his father liked his brother better than him. At this point, local bully "Ace" Merrill (Sutherland) and his gang consisting of "Eyeball" Chambers (Gregg), Vince Desjardins, Charlie Hogan, Billy Tessio and two other hoods show up in their cars to take the body, but Gordie threatens Ace with a handgun that Chris had brought. Gordie decides that no one will get credit for finding the dead body and reports it via an anonymous phone call to the authorities.

Again, I realize that this is a fictional situation, but it's the best illustration I can provide that most people are familiar with that proves how things should be handled. Did children and adults have better morals and decision making skills decades ago than they do today? It certainly seems so. Reporting a crime might take a little bit of courage, but the law has allowed several ways to report a crime and be protected afterwards. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out and decide to make the right and just choice.

Even if the guys indirectly involved with this crime reported the incident and her location anonymously, I wouldn't be so upset with them. But, they really did nothing when time was of the essence. She really is lucky that she's still alive.

reply to post by HumAnnunaki


Maybe you should learn how our legal system works before telling me what my position is?

Secondly, as I pointed out to other posters I am not taking a side, and to accuse me of being a steubenville cheerleaders tells me you failed to read / understand my posts.

One should understand how something works before making an attempt to fix it. Failure to educate coupled with knee jerk reactions can create laws / situation 10 times worse.

Again, respectfully, read and understand my posts before accusing me of something / taking a position that is in fact not true.

reply to post by Aquarius2150

Why do they keep saying the girl passed out from being drunk?
does anyone else find that odd?why are they(msm) not mentioning
that she was drugged?
My understanding is that she was drugged,passed out(roofied)before she had time to drink?
Am I missing something?

Also why are they not being charged with kidnapping?and illegal drug
anyone have a clue?

reply to post by Xcathdra


We understand quite well how the CRIMINAL Justice System works. We do. That's the main reason we're so upset. It just seems as though you're hell bent on defending a broken system instead of stating ways that you believe it can be improved upon. All you're really doing is telling us how we should weave our way through the muck instead of suggesting how to get rid of the muck. Aren't you tired of wearing those hip boots? They're really not that comfortable.