A look at one state's Concealed Carry Weapons law or CCW.

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posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:02 PM
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Obviously, recent weeks have seen a near flood of different threads on almost every aspect of guns, gun rights, gun control, gun crime, gun accidents, gun abuse and guns in general.

Sometimes you'd think there was nothing else to our fair nation. Well, in all this discussion, there have been fleeting references here and there quoting actual law on how CCW works in reality and not just in perceptions or misconceptions.

While researching another aspect entirely, I came across these items and had to share. I imagine it may be as valuable to others in my state as it is interesting to those living elsewhere or outside the United States entirely. It's hard to know who and what to believe when sources are being quoted willy nilly and without solid credibility.

This is a piece of a pamphlet produced by the Missouri State Highway Patrol that outlines the basic procedure, function and laws relating to carrying a weapon in Missouri by permit.


(Source: Missouri Concealed Weapons Law - MO State Police

The pamphlet is a little odd reading in that form since it's obviously meant to be a printed item and folded to lay right, but it's easy to see what lines up as you read down the page. As the above clips show though, it's more than simply not being a felon. At least in this state it is. There are a wide variety of things both large and small that can get a person denied. Missouri is a "SHALL ISSUE" state though.

SHALL ISSUE means that if you do qualify under the various requirements, fingerprint supported background check and pass the required class and firing range skills portion of the testing, you "SHALL" be issued your permit without need of justification or judgement of anyone beyond that. There is nothing subjective about the issuance of the permit here. It's cut and dry both in getting one and in losing it, as it's also covered in the linked source material.

This is what a CCW endorsed State ID card looks like.


Unlike many states, Missouri helpfully allows a person to get the CCW endorsement listed on EITHER their Driver's License or a separate State ID card so it's not necessary to advertise the status to everyone a license may be handed to for routine identification purposes. This was priceless for me as a trucker, since confusion over the laws regarding carrying in that situation are epic. It's so much easier that anyone outside Law Enforcement simply never know it exists at all.


Now Missouri's strict and thorough process to issue permits has been well received around the nation. In the United States, a CCW permit (or whatever each state terms their version) is accepted in other states at that state's individual discretion. Some state permits are almost universally accepted. Some are not accepted by many states outside the one issuing it. It varies greatly and it's one of the key points learned in the classroom portion of the course required to receive it.

Here is a map of the states where a Missouri resident can carry their weapon without further permitting or other issues:


(Image Source)
(Missouri State Attorney General - Latest Reciprocity Info / Text)

(Note: Wisconsin has changed their status for CCW issuance since the time of that image creation. The 2nd link has up to the moment information from the state AG)

Of course, this doesn't mean a Missouri permit holder or any other state holder can travel across someone else's state assuming the laws which apply at home just apply everywhere. Certainly not. Some states allow firearms in Bars. Some do not. Some allow them in Churches while some require Church permission and some prohibit it outright. It's always the permit holders duty to know the laws of each state being entered for those local variations.

There is another quirk of the Missouri law which doesn't necessarily hold everywhere outside our state but it's interesting enough to note. Here, it's not called a Concealed handgun permit, as some states term it. It's absolutely not tied to just one weapon...or even one TYPE of weapon. The permit stands good to carry ANY legal weapon in a concealed method. That doesn't mean one can carry hand grenades and say they thought that counted. lol.... (unless they legalize them here.
...naww.. I doubt it too.. darn)

Finally, it's always a question among some for just what constitutes justified USE of deadly force. Here again, the law is liberally written and was modified in recent years to be even more so. It's generous for limits within reasonable and logical fear for your own life, that of another or great bodily injury to either. Here is the exact statute language:


A person may not use deadly force upon another person under the circumstances specified in subsection 1 of this section unless:

* He or she reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary to protect himself, or herself or her unborn child, or another against death, serious physical injury, or any forcible felony;

* Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle lawfully occupied by such person; or

* Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter private property that is owned or leased by an individual claiming a justification of using protective force under this section.

A person does not have a duty to retreat from a dwelling, residence, or vehicle where the person is not unlawfully entering or unlawfully remaining. A person does not have a duty to retreat from private property that is owned or leased by such individual.
Missouri State Statute - Defense of Justification

(Missouri State Statute - Defense of Justification / Full Chapter Text, All)

The statute covers one other item which was modified in how it read in recent years.


"Forcible felony", any felony involving the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual, including but not limited to murder, robbery, burglary, arson, kidnapping, assault, and any forcible sexual offense;


It used to be very specific in defining what was meant by Sexual offense, to limit it. That limit no longer applies as it once did. Sexual Offenders attack people in Missouri at their own risk...as a bystander is fully justified in intervening with deadly force should they come upon a forcible sexual offense in progress.

In closing, I hope this has been helpful in illuminating this area of law and how it applies to the actual use of concealed carry as I and roughly 155,000 other state residents here practice it on a daily basis.

Stay Safe and never fear exercising your legal rights. That's what they're there for!




posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:10 PM
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Delete
edit on 3-1-2013 by solarstorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:11 PM
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Good post Wrabbit. I have always been a proponent for females carrying concealed specifically for sexual assault deterrent. I hope more females will take an interest in learning how to carry and use a gun so they are less fearful of using one.
edit on 3-1-2013 by solarstorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:17 PM
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Great post. I have all the same info for my state, Massachusetts.

I've even gone as far to print out all the info and put it in my car. You never know when you might get stopped and some young LEO thinks he knows what he's talking about and tries to take your gun/high capacity mag.

If your going to have guns or carry, you need to know ALL about the rules, for your state and any you may visit.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Living in Utah, I had a CCW permit. One day I was stopped for speeding. I had my driver's license, my CCW license, registration and insurance forms in my hands when the police officer walked up to my _

I kept both hands in plain sight and answered yes when he asked if I was currently armed.

He asked what type of weapon.

I stated a Bersa.

We talked guns for a bit, he wrote me a ticket, bid me a good day and left.



My gun.

Freedoms unused become freedoms denied.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Very thought-out and useful thread !!

For someone that is going through the process of getting a CCW, this is a gem.

Its a shame that IL is the last holdout state though. Looks like the entire Midwest is on board with CCW.

S&F



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:51 PM
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Thanks all for the replies so far! I really appreciate it. I'd started just planning to share the pamphlet but ..as these things go sometimes, one step led to another and before ya know it? Well... I'm at character limit and ..wow? How did all that writing get there? lol...

@Beezzer

I've had about the same experience with Law Enforcement. No problems at all yet. My other half was out helping her sister-in-law with a domestic issue and making sure she didn't get hurt when she was asked and checked out. No problems there either and the only time either of us has been run for our weapons while actually IN a situation that wasn't entirely casual and friendly. Of course, cops vary greatly and as stories here show every day, there are good and bad. I think some make their own problems with attitude or just doing precisely the wrong thing and not even realizing the level of mistake. (I got a laugh out of the Pamphlet noting NOT to reach for your gun while an Officer is approaching or with you during a car stop ...until it hit me.. Things like that are "written in blood" so to speak. It's probably happened.. yikes!)

@Sonnny1

Nevada was the last holdout which mattered to me in getting reciprocity. As a trucker, that one annoyed. I could deal with California on the other side and simply stripped the gun down to parts which stored separately then hoped ..if it ever came up ... California would honor the interstate transportation laws regarding firearms in transit. (Some states like New York and Mass have a Rep for flat ignoring that to arrest and prosecute anyway). It never came up. I never understood Nevada's problem before though. Thankfully they finally flipped to a state honoring the Mo permit.
Slow progress is still progress!

I'm glad to hear you're looking at a permit yourself. There's always room for another law abiding and responsible citizen able to step in if the worst happens and that need arises!



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 12:14 AM
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I got pulled over for speeding once, also handed the LEO my CCW along with my license. He tensed for a moment asked if I was carrying and if it was secured. I assured him it was. He wrote me for a lesser non moving violation. I think he appreciated that I was honest. In NY nothing is communicated to LE regarding who is or isn't carrying weapons.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 08:05 AM
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Here in Texas the permit is referred to as a CHL - Concealed Handgun License - but the law is a bit quirky.
The CHL provisions exempt holders from the entire section regarding illegal weapons, so for example, a LEO or a CHL holder are allowed to carry automatic knives, and other prohibited weapons which are restricted from the general public. Also, Texas administers the CHL program at the State level, thus lower level or local agencies have no participation in granting of the license.

In 2009, the "castle doctrine" was extended to vehicles and just about everybody can carry a concealed weapon in their car. Since then I always give up the CHL so as to insure the officer knows I've been through a background check, probably have a weapon and present no credible threat.

ganjoa



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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A list of all NC firearm laws updated in 2011.

That is the complete PDF from the NC Sheriff's Association.

From another source that allowed cut and paste and maintained formatting.


GETTING YOUR CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT
North Carolina General Statute 14.415.13
· Must have Certificate from your approved Concealed Handgun Carry Course.
· Present your original Certificate to the Sheriff of your county of residence and complete permit application under oath.
· Pay a non-refundable fee of $80.00.
· Provide two sets of fingerprints which you can be charged up to $10.00 by the Sheriff.
· Provide a release that authorizes and requires disclosure to the Sheriff of any record concerning the mental health or capacity of the applicant.
· Qualified sworn law enforcement officers may be exempt from the firearms safety and training course. · Fees for retired sworn law enforcement officers from the North Carolina Teachers and State Employees’ Retirement System or the North Carolina Local Governmental Employees’ Retirement System who meet certain qualifications only pay $45.00 for the application fee and $40.00 for their renewal fee.
· By law, the Sheriff has 45 days to approve or deny the permit.
· Must renew the permit every 5 years. File for renewal at least 30 days prior to the expiration and submit a renewal fee of $75.00.
· Must notify the Sheriff within 30 days after a permanent change of address.


Prohibited places


(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14.269.2 (EDUCATIONAL PROPERTY), 14-269.3 (ANY ESTABLISHMENT WHERE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD AND CONSUMED & ASSEMBLIES WHERE ADMISSION IS CHARGED), and 14.277.2 (PARADES, PICKET LINES, DEMONSTRATIONS AT PRIVATE HEALTH CARE FACILITIES).

(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4 (WEAPONS ON CERTAIN STATE PROPERTY AND IN COURTHOUSES) except as allowed under G.S. 14-269.4(6) (LOCKED IN A VEHICLE IN A CLOSED COMPARTMENT OR CONTAINER).

(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120-32.1(LEGISLATIVE BUILDING & OFFICES).

(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law. (FEDERAL PROPERTY).

(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.

(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.

(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.

(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.


NOTE: Financial institutions have been removed from this law, and are now covered by the Section (8) regarding the Posting of Notice on Private Premises.

(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 113-44.9.

(c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in the person’s body any alcohol or in the person’s blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in the person’s blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts or if the person is on the person’s own property.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit at any State-owned rest area, at any State–owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation. 5
edit on 4-1-2013 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by ganjoa
 

I'd be interested in how Texas compares to Missouri in the requirements? Is Texas ongoing or just the one time for training? I understand California for example, requires recertification where as Missouri is a renewal fee and update to the background check but the training/testing portion is the initial stage for the first run through. Is Texas similar?

(I know..I could look it all up in detail, but asking someone who lives it is always more informative. )
edit on 4-1-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by ganjoa
 

I'd be interested in how Texas compares to Missouri in the requirements? Is Texas ongoing or just the one time for training? I understand California for example, requires recertification where as Missouri is a renewal fee and update to the background check but the training/testing portion is the initial stage for the first run through. Is Texas similar?

(I know..I could look it all up in detail, but asking someone who lives it is always more informative. )
edit on 4-1-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)


Hey buddy! great thread with good information.........i notice the naysayers are staying as far away from facts as they can.......

I do know here in Texas, that I had to qualify with the pistol im carrying and take a class to get mine......

I also know that to renew it I have to qualify again, and redo part of the class........its manditory, AND good for refresher!

Keep up the good work, its good to have quality information out there instead of all the spin



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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Instead of getting a permit to conceal a weapon, why not just open-carry?



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon
 

Open carry in Missouri is legal but it varies. For some odd reason the good folks in Jefferson City decided not to declare that a state wide issue that must be respected by every local government. That was tried for CCW as well, but someone had some sense to realize it could make such a patchwork of law on concealed that no one would know what was legal where ..or who was even breaking it, let alone knowingly or not. So CCW stands as statewide law and Open Carry is city to city.

The city I live in is open carry while one 30 miles up the road will arrest on sight for it. Odd how that quirk of the law works. isn't it?

Personally, I have never agreed with the logic of open carry unless someone has the legal authority to back that for public action against another short of deadly force. I.E....a Cop or Security. The gun in the open then becomes as much a symbol of their position and authority as a tool. On a normal person though? I don't say it shouldn't be allowed....I just don't agree personally with doing it. It generally causes a real spectacle and public issue if you can't pass as people just assuming you are authority of some sort and so, have a reason other than paranoia or a god complex to have a gun on open public display that way. Just my opinion on it.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


The whole thing seems arbitrary. We have the right to bear arms, yet that right is treated like a privilege by the fact that we have to get a license/permit to conceal-carry. Which to me, is an empty distinction in the first place.

Then the fact that a city could put a ban on open-carry seems completely unconstitutional.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon


Then the fact that a city could put a ban on open-carry seems completely unconstitutional.


I actually agree with that assessment.




posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 07:20 PM
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For anyone interested in knowing the various laws and requirements for concealed carry permits here is a site that stays up to date and covers all 50 states plus DC. They also have links to most not all states goernment websites that deal with concealed carry.

www.handgunlaw.us...
edit on 4-1-2013 by rockledr because: spelling



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread914649/pg1#pid156685 .
I'd be interested in how Texas compares to Missouri in the requirements? Is Texas ongoing or just the one time for training? I understand California for example, requires recertification where as Missouri is a renewal fee and update to the background check but the training/testing portion is the initial stage for the first run through. Is Texas similar?


Recertification is every five years, includes a refresher course on updated laws, range requalification and they go through the photo and fingerprint process as well. Not too sure if they actually redo the background check, but the state Dept. of Public Safety has everything they need to run one. Fees aren't substantially less than first time license holders, but the class is shorter so the out of pocket expense is lower. CHL also denotes whether or not you're qualified/licensed for semi-automatic weapons - I think there's a minimum caliber (maybe .32ACP) for qualifying but I never paid much attention being a 45 bigot.

ganjoa
edit on 4-1-2013 by ganjoa because: spelling



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon
 


Then the fact that a city could put a ban on open-carry seems completely unconstitutional.

You're preaching to the choir on that one. I have wondered just how that works when the 'right to bear' shall not be infringed. Interesting infringement. lol... It also makes no sense that I can carry a Desert Eagle .50 if I choose (to name a downright stupidly HUGE hand cannon for CCW carry..) but I can't have a little .380 on my hip in the open. Some states are even MORE absurd by saying concealed means CONCEALED and they enforce it like it came from the Almighty himself on stone tablets.

( I'm sorry I can't find reference to it right now and Oklahoma MAY have changed with the Open Carry law apparently being passed there now but my CCW class mentioned them specifically as being 100% unforgiving if a weapon 'prints' or can be made out beneath a shirt or clothing. It's not 'concealed' enough to be 'concealed' anymore. Here is a good article on those issues: Don't Get Spotted )

I guess it's like everything else. ANYTHING is legal and Constitutional to pass as law ... until a Judge says it isn't. Most lawmakers have the common sense God gave a goose and the decency of a school child to not try blatantly unconstitutional laws. Obviously, by what we watch today, that's sure not a rule though, eh?



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

Get this, Denver is allowed separate gun laws because it existed before Colorado was declared a state,So it is illegal to carry in Denver but not the rest of the state.
They are also buggy about 30rd magazines and they can fine and jail you if you are caught with them. That sure didn't help with a recent incident in the suburb of Aurora.
But CCW s are allowed everywhere accept as is noted in other states.





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