Non-Lethal Rounds:The Answer

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by bjax9er

 

I take it you have no idea of what effect a projectile rubber bullet would have on you. Lets just say you won't be standing up again until after you have been to the emergency room.

You speaking from experience, or just more opinion stated as fact? I've been shot with a non lethal round. It went straight through my cheek and I kept on fightin..

reply to post by DaTroof

Lady Justice did not grant anyone the right to bear arms or any other right, we were born with these rights as free individuals. What part of "shall not be infringed " gives anyone authority to regulate my rights. would you let someone tell you what food you were allowed to eat, or what music you could listen to? Isn't it your right to choose these things for yourselves, or will you allow someone else to make your life decisions for you.

reply to post by mattdel


As would a lethal projectile. Its ok you guys continue shooting each other, it is no skin off our noses.

reply to post by michael1983l



Then why are you giving answers to a problem you don't have? If you don't care, why post?

reply to post by DAVID64


I care about the innocent people who have lost their lives through the widespread availability of guns. I also will share my opinion on something that I would loath to have to have an opinion in my own country, my opinion is just that, my opinion. Like I have said, you guys have made your bed so you can lie in it. I do not have much else to say on the topic.

reply to post by michael1983l


Yea but with a taser you only have one shot, with a pistol the other party may have many many more.

reply to post by michael1983l


Yes, but I the "criminal" will be alive.
Ready to rape, steal and kill, when I get out of prison.
That's if I make it to prison.

Because of things like This...because alot of times bad guys have drugs in their system that causes the police to have to shoot them several times with real bullets..It's often not like you see on tv where the bad guys just fall over when the good guy pulls out a gun..

Think about it....your at home with your family asleep in bed at 3:00am billy bad guy and his 2 buddys kick in your door, higher than a kite, armed and dangerous, willing to do harm to you and your family......are you willing to risk you spouse and childrens lives that rubber bullets MIGHT stop these guys? Heck it's risky enough that real bullets won't these days....not me...my family means the world to me...I will do all I can to defend them.

Originally posted by DaTroof

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I wouldn't go vilifying anyone. The subject is certainly big enough for all to have their opinions.

In my opinion, I'll be happy to use non-lethal ammunition.....if the criminal will swear to use non-lethal weapons against me.

OK, so we're getting somewhere.

How do you feel about a ban on lethal ammo, where crimes committed with lethal ammo in the weapon would be considered (attempted) murder?

Sorry I hadn't gotten back here... I was making a major thread I just posted. Anyway... I'm missing your point here. If a criminal has a loaded weapon during the commission of a crime ... you're suggesting the mere presence of the gun be attempted murder or the use of it? If it's used, it already would be? I'm not being snarky..I'm really confused on that?

reply to post by michael1983l

The tasers are not a bad thing for people to carry if they are not comfortable with a firearm. It depends on local state laws of course and check those carefully. In fact, I happen to have a link handy. (don't I always? lol)

Taser laws across the nation at a galnce

I've personally recommended some people look into getting one and not even mentioned a firearm. Depends on the person. I wouldn't carry a taser unless no other option existed simple because it's a one trick pony. If you miss, you're dead. If they pull the darts out...well, it wouldn't be like a cop who normally has one or more others with them to back them up. I'd say when you've attempted to shoot someone with a taser and it fails, whatever level the confrontation was prior to that point is life and death after it.....assuming it wasn't already there.

Just my personal take. Tho..again, if someone can't or just isn't comfortable with a firearm? A taser beats harsh language and pleas for mercy any day.

The deer would laugh at me if I used rubber bullets. They would start attacking hunters.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Non-Lethal Weaponry

Rubber Bullet

If self/home defense is a concern due to neighborhood or other factors, why not use non-lethal rounds?

One can incapacitate the would-be criminal without playing the role of executioner. I understand that leaving a criminal alive will just clog the system, but that's the decision of the great American legal system, the same Lady Justice whom grants you the right to bear arms.

If hunting is the reason for having lethal rounds, then why not have a registry outside the hunting grounds where ammo can be serial numbered, and unspent shells are to be returned for a refund following a hunt?

edit on 3-1-2013 by DaTroof because: fixed links

Lady Justice did not grant the right to bear arms. Governments and legal systems don't grant rights. The truth that humans have an inherent right to protect themselves is self-evident.

No government can take away this right no matter how many pieces of paper they sign.

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by kdog1982

 

I respect you as a user, so I'll tell you a story, although I should have put this in the OP. The store I work at had a robbery a few years back, and the clerk (my friend, D - fake name) was able to get to his firearm in a semi-enclosed environment. The robber opened the door and took a slug right in his chest, knocking him back about 10 feet. The wound was fatal. D's 2nd shot ricocheted off the edge of the weighted door as it was closing and narrowly missed the robber, putting a hole through the storefront window, flying across the parking lot, hitting the street, penetrating a fence and a window of the house across the street before finally getting buried in the ceiling of their kitchen.

I always think about if someone had been driving by at the wrong time, or if the bullet had caught someone walking outside, or the neighbors across the street. Even though D did the right thing and double-tapped, there could have been significant collateral damage. It's never safe to fire a gun outside the range. Never.

edit on 3-1-2013 by DaTroof because: (no reason given)

I never really liked guns myself,but I respect the need for them for defense.

My story is when I was 19 years old in college ,working part time and had a live-in girlfriend is that one day ,I came home from school and found her face down in the couch dead.
No blood,just vomit and her head covered by a cushion from the couch.
A single gun shot straight to the heart from a 22 caliber antique rifle.

It seems that behind my back without knowing what was going on,she had a feud with some guy from her hometown and called up some of her old friends to beat this guy up.
He took revenge in that and killed her.

I stayed away from guns for along time after that until I had my own family and realized that they needed protection.
Life is a crap shoot ,and it's better to stack the odd's in your favor.

Oh will you people just dummy up or what?
www.huffingtonpost.com...
I WANT a gun to kill,not scare.

reply to post by DaTroof




The only time I will use deadly force is if life itself is in danger. I am very pro-gun if you check my past posts and truth be told if we let the freedom hating progressive Nazi's get a foot in the door it is bad at this point.



The laws should stay the same if you don't want to own a gun good for you if you think the founding fathers were wrong move. The founding fathers could of cared less about hunting that is not why they gave us the 2nd.




The progressive nut bags try and spin the past but history has shown more then once when guns leave the peoples hands so does the rest of their rights including life itself.




You could ban all guns and guess who would still have them.........Criminals. How stupid can ya get?

Tasers are not always particularly effective - as this thread with video shows Link Here.

Non-lethal - or more accurately described as "Less Than Lethal" bullets have their uses, but are fairly cost prohibitive. I've only seen these rounds commercially available as SHOTGUN shells. I have not seen rubber bullets in pistol rounds. Of note, the 37mm rubber projectiles used in Northern Ireland seem to be fired from a grenade launcher type of weapon, which wouldn't be available to the "general public" here in the USA without expensive tax penalties and background checks.
un
The "frangible" or "safety slug" rounds are available in most common handgun calibers and are fairly expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the typical $5 each for less-than-lethal shotgun rounds. The advantage to these rounds is that they disintegrate on impact with hard (non tissue) objects relieving much of the concern with collateral damage due to missed shots. On the other hand, they are extremely lethal when encountering soft tissue - thus minimizing the possibility of maiming or merely wounding an assailant.

ganjoa

Wonderful states like CT have banned less-lethal ammunition out of fear that kids would think less-lethal meant "safe" and they'd go around shooting each other with bean bags and rubber bullets.

It's worth noting that nothing like that has ever occurred.

So in a state like that you can carry around 15 rounds of .45 and keep 000 buck in your home defense shotgun to eviscerate an intruder but if you're caught trying to incapacitate without killing you'll go to jail.

Yay government!

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Sly1one

 

I guess you missed the concept that I live in a country with gun control and are describing the fact that I or any other person I know has ever been on the receiving end of gun crime. At the same time I can safely say that mass shootings in my country are almost non existant. The same obviously cannot be said about the USA but like I say, your probably too far down the line to do anything about it and most of you seem happy to reap what you sew, so I guess there is not much more to be discussed.

Mikey mikey mikey....dont you get the 2nd amendment had nothing to do qwith private criminals...????
Its all about the Goverment criminals....
Self defence is just a side issue....

reply to post by stirling


All I can say to that is if you guys mis trust your government so much, why do you allow them to keep power. Where is the peoples party come election times? You guys like to enforce "democracy" around the world in places that have no "democracy" yet you feel the need to keep guns yourselves to defend yourselves from said democracy in your own country. That just doesnt make any logical sense to me.

I am also wondering why the UK has been a democracy since 1688 and we are not armed, where has all the nasty dictators been hiding in this time?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Wonderful states like CT have banned less-lethal ammunition out of fear that kids would think less-lethal meant "safe" and they'd go around shooting each other with bean bags and rubber bullets.

You've got to be kidding me. How absolutely absurd. The OP has an interesting idea ...if I assume he's never done much for thinking through carrying in defense situations. However, there are real GOOD reasons for owning non-lethal and I have some for my 12 gauge. Ummm...if we get a dog or other animal going nuts in the neighborhood someday or whatever may happen, I may not want to blow the thing in half. I may very much prefer to put it 'down' in a way it isn't getting back up for awhile ...but the owners don't need it back in pieces. (It'd bother me personally in a real deep way to shoot a dog and kill it if I could have done something else..)

I can't think of any GOOD reason to actually outlaw rubber pellets or bean bag rounds. No good reasons at all. (Folks like Skip Tracers may have a honest legitimate need for them too..without a badge to buy LEO sources)