Blame the devil, cop out or real?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The kids in Lord of the Flies were not babies, though. They were "latent" children (like, a school-age kid, but not a pubescent) and who had already had their "formative years". The story reflects their behaviors that would have been the result of their early temperaments and training.

What about Mad Max's canyon-o'-kids in Beyond Thunderdome?
Kids of different ages; the oldest ones (mid-late teens) were the "tribal parents" of the rest of them. They certainly had a society; and the littles were cared for.

Whether you "think so" or not has little to do with the fMRI scans done on babies and toddlers.

Interesting question and one that does not have a clear answer either.

Based upon the assumption that God and the Devil really do exist (plenty of people will tell you they do) then things things we would view as bad can come from either of them.

God will send natural disasters to punish and tell you to wake up, whereas the devil will do it to destroy all hope and lead you away from God. This is the difference between the works of the two. I will show some biblical examples of God and the Devil causing destruction and mayhem. I am quoting examples from the bible so as to avoid debate over the details of who caused the disaster. Contemporary examples like WW2 for instance can be debated either way as the bible does not say anything on them.

Biblical examples of great disasters sent by God;

The great flood that Noah built the Ark for
The destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

God can and does send punishment our way, so don't be thinking it's only the devil causing destruction. Rather look at the way we are all living and ask yourself are we in tune with how God wants us to live, or are we headed down the road to perdition? Both of these examples were of wicked places and times where the people had totally abandoned God's laws so he saw fit to destroy them.

An example of sufferings sent from the devil;

The suffering of Job

Job was a righteous man and the Devil did everything he could to make him lose faith and give up on God, but he could not. So if something bad happens and makes you question your faith in God, it is possibly the devil at work.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


www.smithsonianmag.com...
Check this out. I just received my issue of Smithsonian - the article is entitled "Born to be Mild", but the cover of the mag shows a baby in 'devil halloween costume garb'.
Anyway, the article talks exactly about the topic here.

ATS "Creating God"

This is for all that talk of "slandering Satan".

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

All god did was create the world. There's nothing bad about it because God is a perfect creator.

And there we go. Tossing around the word "perfect" like you actually understand what perfection is. You are human, you are inherently IMPERFECT, you don't know what perfect is because your perspective, your biology, your education, your background, and your world are NOT PERFECT.

What, to you, is perfection? What could you possibly know of perfection?

Perfection is relative and subjective. I am perfectly me. I am the perfect me because I am the only me. There is no greater me than me. All i have to do is be me and I will be perfectly being me. I can't do anything to become an imperfect me, because anything I do will still be how I do it an i couldn't have done it any other way because once done, it will be done. So am I perfect? I am to me. I'm sorry you don't think I am, and you don't think you are, but that's your problem. I see perfection, and you don't. That must suck. Oh well. Suck on brother.

Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
It's strange to see that so few realize the difference between angels like Lucifer and mankind.

First, you need to ask yourself "Why would God create man?" He didn't do it to be praised, although that is our ultimate fate, to praise God's perfect glory, but before the creation of man, there were countless angels there to sing his praises. So, what else could it be? To be loved? Well, I'm sure his angels who know firsthand of his perfect grace love Him, so why is it any different when a man chooses to? Easy. A man, CHOOSES, to love God. An angel does not. Men have something angels do not. We have the ability to choose. If we did everything God told us to do at all times like the angels do.... well that would almost make us God, wouldn't it? At least from the standpoint that he has as much control over them as you do over the fingers of your hand. Satan? He is the left hand. Michael and the arcs, they are the right. God is the brain controlling ALL of the fingers.

I think God created us so that he could look at himself and know himself, or its self. You say, "we have free will", but and then go on to say, "god is controlling all the fingers". So which is it? I'll tell you exactly what it is. It's both.

We experience individualized human. Everything we do is relative to our human self. From this perspective, it seems like you only deal with your own human actions. But nay, God controls individuals through individuals as individuals. It seems like it is you, the human, that is in control, but it isn't. We HAVE to experience individuality and individualized will, for one simple reason. Because the responsibility of controlling a single entity must be appointed as close to the actual point of perception as possible. Otherwise, it would be impossible to regulate our activities because it would be unclear what is going on. If God were not right here, as much me as I am, he wouldn't be in control because he would not even know what is going on here. God is regulating our lives through us regulating our lives.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Excellent point. Counter point: if we all are God experiencing a nearly perfectly subjective reality, then God is existing in at least 7 billion places simultaneously. It is more helpful to think of us as "clones" or "sons" of Him, because the supreme consciousness from whence we stem is here acting as our soul, and simultaneously above us acting as God, aka the creator, aka source. Source has no beginning and no end. We humans have a beginning (the first memories in our head after birth) and we have an end, death. So while our souls may be copies of source (God), it is what we experience that defines our reality and actions, not the thoughts we have.

reply to post by SpiritofEnoch


I don't think there are god clones. I think that our subjective individuality comes from gods presence within us as the ultimate individualized subject. So by God being as present within us as we are within us, we too, take on godlike aspects, such as our individuality and subjective/creative mindsets.

Thoughts are a part of the experience.

reply to post by smithjustinb


If God were with all of us controlling our every action, how does that solve the problems of how a universal consciousness can handle such a complex task? We make choices every day. The person with ultimate control over what those choices are, is we. Whether we are made in the image of Him, or whether our bodies are just the universe's consciousness antennas, is irrelevant. In the end, because we all experience reality subjectively, we are the ones who make the decisions.

Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

If God were with all of us controlling our every action, how does that solve the problems of how a universal consciousness can handle such a complex task? We make choices every day. The person with ultimate control over what those choices are, is we. Whether we are made in the image of Him, or whether our bodies are just the universe's consciousness antennas, is irrelevant. In the end, because we all experience reality subjectively, we are the ones who make the decisions.

We do what we do because God is what God is. Underneath the will, there is God. God's presence in our unique bodies generates unique actions. God is life itself. What causes the will to form? Life.

reply to post by smithjustinb


We are therefore we do... I like that. And what of reason and logic? Do these not exist? Is all thought the spontaneous manifestation of the will of God? What of those who murder children? Do you think that something was in their life that could've caused them to manifest the will to kill the innocent? If there was a God and he was good, do you think he'd prevent something like that from happening? Even if the situation was completely beyond the person's control (let's say hypothetically a child is raised and only knows killing and is taught only that killing is good), is God to blame for this? I think not. Here's why. Every single person you have ever met has had the ability to change your life if they chose to. Have you ever broke down and needed a cell phone to call for help? Dozens of cars could pass by, and maybe nobody stops. But all it takes is one person to stop and maybe you get to that job interview on time or whatever the case may be. But God didn't make that person stop. That person chose to stop for their own reason. Maybe the week before, the same thing happened to them and the memory was so fresh in their mind that they couldn't help but stop. The same goes for every single action every single human being has taken. All it takes is one person to step in and say "Let me help you, and lives are saved." but we are so caught up in our own lives that we barely notice. Is that the behavior of a benevolent species of any kind? But suppose for a second that God exists as a conscious being on a higher plane of existence. He wants to create someone like him, because God is the pinnacle of creation. If you believe in evolution, he is the goal. The ultimate being. So he creates us to know him and know the things he does, and being the God he is, all of his works are in the interest of love. His love for us, and our lack of love for Him. There are many souls out there who go their entire lives never seeing the God that is right in front of them and all of the things He does that change our lives when we need them the most. So God could show himself and come out and say "this is who I am, this is what I've done," but what would we learn? We have to see the results of our actions, for better or worse, because it is all necessary to know God and to know Yourself.

It's just a cop out. People hate the idea that life is disorganized and chaotic. I'll admit it, it is a terrifying and harrowing realization to come to once you discover that the universe is apathetic, and most people feel the need to believe in a protagonist and antagonist to comfort them, so they can go to sleep every night feeling like everything is in control. Although I much prefer to find my comfort in the sweet caress of tobacco and alcohol, and the occasional painkiller if I have access to them. Shameful, I know. But hey, at least those things are proven to exist

reply to post by Xaphan


That is because people are unable to reconcile chaos with order. They cannot imagine fire crafting a beautiful tree. In truth, many wildfires have given today's trees a chance to live. And someday, those trees might return the favor.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. The devil leads men to sin, natural disasters and losing one's car keys isn't sin.

These are common excuses I hear among many others here.

Can you link them here in this thread? Sorry that really sounds absurd.

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by akushla99

 

Sorry, I'm a nerd for precision. We don't live in a 3D reality.

What you knoe, and what you can faithfully make understandable...are divided by steps along the way...

A99

Well, we can explain things for people, however it's impossible to understand things for people.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. The devil leads men to sin, natural disasters and losing one's car keys isn't sin.

These are common excuses I hear among many others here.

Can you link them here in this thread? Sorry that really sounds absurd.

People do make a lot of excuses. I've made my share, then once I thought about it, figured out it was all my fault, or at the very least, I didnt do my very best at what I should have.

reply to post by jhill76

Good things only from God, everything else, the devil.

Ah, not biblical at all. Try reading the book of Job sometime, or perhaps all of the old testament.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Didn't see him saying anywhere in there were Heylel created anything. There's alot of places where he lets satan have at people to test them, but if you're having calamites befall you, you might want to look at your lifestyle and repent of your sins. Satan can't do squat on his own without the Almighty giving his consent first, especially since Jesus took the keys of death and hell from Mr. Angel of Death and broke his power.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
It's strange to see that so few realize the difference between angels like Lucifer and mankind.

First, you need to ask yourself "Why would God create man?" He didn't do it to be praised, although that is our ultimate fate, to praise God's perfect glory, but before the creation of man, there were countless angels there to sing his praises. So, what else could it be? To be loved? Well, I'm sure his angels who know firsthand of his perfect grace love Him, so why is it any different when a man chooses to? Easy. A man, CHOOSES, to love God. An angel does not. Men have something angels do not. We have the ability to choose. If we did everything God told us to do at all times like the angels do.... well that would almost make us God, wouldn't it? At least from the standpoint that he has as much control over them as you do over the fingers of your hand. Satan? He is the left hand. Michael and the arcs, they are the right. God is the brain controlling ALL of the fingers.

I think God created us so that he could look at himself and know himself, or its self. You say, "we have free will", but and then go on to say, "god is controlling all the fingers". So which is it? I'll tell you exactly what it is. It's both.

We experience individualized human. Everything we do is relative to our human self. From this perspective, it seems like you only deal with your own human actions. But nay, God controls individuals through individuals as individuals. It seems like it is you, the human, that is in control, but it isn't. We HAVE to experience individuality and individualized will, for one simple reason. Because the responsibility of controlling a single entity must be appointed as close to the actual point of perception as possible. Otherwise, it would be impossible to regulate our activities because it would be unclear what is going on. If God were not right here, as much me as I am, he wouldn't be in control because he would not even know what is going on here. God is regulating our lives through us regulating our lives.

The freedom in Free Will is that we are allowed to mess things up in whatever way strikes your individual fancy. God is you in the perverbial soup of "hey, humans created as ACTION TOYS for me". I learn without having to have the emotional factorate (otherwise I'd Blow My Brains Out). You are me as experimental droids, experiencing everything I need to know without some small sacrifices; but never harming myself (too much) as I am in so many small fragments living within the spark that IAM some call it your SPIRIT. You as a human have 3 trillion cells, do any of them know you are in charge? Why should God tell you the same about your condition if you do not speak to your own bodily constituants that are suppossed to keep you living as well?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. The devil leads men to sin, natural disasters and losing one's car keys isn't sin.

These are common excuses I hear among many others here.

Can you link them here in this thread? Sorry that really sounds absurd.

When I say here, I mean here as in this place. This is done via the mouth, not over electronic communication. I could not link you to that.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Does God need us to exist? I would like to hear your reasoning behind this. Clearly He wants us to exist, but is it because he cannot exist without us or because we cannot exist without him?