Is this of truth? - negative goes positive - denying oneself (suffer) for future positivity?

It seems to me that you want to suffer now so you can be happy later. There is no later - it's always now, so why are you waiting to be free of suffering?

You do want you want OP dont listen to anyone else.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Itisnowagain wasn't telling anyone how to live their life, so why are you advocating the freedom of arpgme?

Originally posted by arpgme
If there is karma, would allowing yourself to suffer lead to a better future?

Not necessarily, because you are purposefully suffering. I don't think there is a set of checks and balances that says, "Oh, s/he suffered needlessly there, let's put down some bonus karma." That sounds more like a cosmic karma currency system than what I understand karma to be: cosmic cause and effect.

Suffering intentionally so that you get a future reward seems like the opposite idea of doing a good deed, because you're doing it with selfish motives. The intention is impure and somewhat materialistic in nature. "If I suffer now, I'll get better stuff later."

Let's take the story of Jesus, for example. The idea is that he was an earthly manifestation of God who lived a few decades as a human, then suffered immense physical pain and was murdered.

Yet, all of this was done to ease future suffering of other people.

Jesus got his reward immediately upon death: cessation of all human suffering and ascension to Heaven. He didn't suffer to gain Karma in the next life, because his next "life" was not another incarnation. The idea behind Jesus' suffering - poverty, betrayal, crucifixion - was to gain understanding of humanity and give humans hope that there was something beyond their suffering. "Yes, you are suffering without cease as I did, but if you are pious and loving and humble despite your suffering, you will receive a reward of living an infinity with me without suffering." The "Karma" gained in this case is a reserved place in Heaven.

Let me give some examples, you are creating something and you suffer - tiring yourself out and using all your effort - but because you suffered with so much energy and effort, the thing that you made comes out beautiful.

But were you actually suffering? When I create, I am happy when I'm using all of my focus and effort and feeling exhausted as a result. That doesn't count as suffering if I enjoy it.

Or, you allow yourself to suffer by putting others before yourself, and somehow people see that and in the future treat you well...

Or, more likely, they see it now so treat you badly and continue to treat you badly as long as you accept their behavior. People are people, they don't care if you're trying to earn "good karma" - they will use you if you let them.

Suffering eliminating bad karma and putting in a good future (with more positive karma since you cleared it by making yourself suffer).

Well, I think that the point of suffering is that you cannot escape it. When you purposefully do things that people might consider suffering, it is not true suffering because you can escape it at any time. Your karma wouldn't really change because you're not doing anything good to gain karma.

It's like law abiding citizens: nobody comes around giving them rewards (merits) simply for following the law. It's just expected that everyone will follow the law so people can get along easily. When you break the law, you get negative rewards (demerits) and become an outcast. It is only when you do something beneficial to other humans within the confines of the law that you get a merit and positive recognition.

It seems as though, from bad things, good things seem to manifest. From problems/confusion, there is clarity/answers/LEARNING. From conflict, there are solutions that will make the people closer. From pain and suffering, there is strength. The body has to suffer (exercising) before it can grow stronger with muscles and stuff.

I don't think that is karma, though, because karma is not limited to this one lifetime. You are talking about learning. Some people just don't learn from their mistakes. They suffer for their entire lives because they don't realize that the only way things will change is if they learn not to suffer. ""The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

If you learn from your mistakes, you don't need karma because your life improves just by virtue of doing something different that does not cause suffering.

To use my example of emotional suffering: when I let myself suffer, my life is bad. Even "good things" that happen are bad because I cannot appreciate them and only expect things to get worse. When I get out of that suffering, I see that there is good and bad in life, but I can do things to bring more good into my life. That good I make for myself helps me not to suffer when something bad comes along because I realize that I have control over my reactions to uncontrollable situations. If I respond with suffering, my life is a life of suffering regardless of the situation I am in. If I respond with adaptation and learn from the situation, my situation improves as soon as I remove myself from the bad situation.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Itisnowagain wasn't telling anyone how to live their life, so why are you advocating the freedom of arpgme?

Because itsnowagains version of nothing doesnt lead to freedom it simply creates a better observer for the suffering. Argme freedom is Argme freedom its not for you me or itsnowagain to decide on what form of that is.

Originally posted by arpgme
I heard that when you cause yourself to suffer you will be clearing negative karma and therefore good stuff will come back to you in the future? Is there any truth to this?

Could this be the reason why Jesus and Lao Tzu said that the last become first and the first become last? And why they talk humility / humbleness to people?

Could this be why they talked about GIVING to others (releasing things - allowing your precious stuff to go), so that you can RECEIVE in the future?

edit on 3-1-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

No, this is not true. This is one of the greatest scams that the "haves" ever concocted to inspire a significant percentage of the "have nots" to passively accept their lot in life without the "haves" having to constantly protect themselves from them as a direct result of what they do to get what they've got. It gets even more psychopathic when you start demanding that people suffer or give all their stuff away (maybe, to you...perhaps?) as payment toward their enlightenment or stairway to heaven.

This whole karma business is twisted stuff. Being compassionate and sharing with others is what community is all about, and is the strength of community versus isolationism. Focusing on the welfare of the whole of humankind is beautiful, but not if you're doing it as a hedge against eternal damnation. And it sure as hell isn't anything but pure, raw evil if you're demanding others to suffer or be deprived of necessities under the threat of a potential karma retribution. That's just twisted.

reply to post by arpgme


Life is about learning from experience. How do you know what love is if you havent been full fo hate?

Life needs us to walk both light and dark, and then in the end we return to the light...

You come from light and you leave it for a while to know its opposite (darkness) then you know what light really is.

So, in order to experience all of existence you have to suffer, suffering alows you to know what happiness really is.

Our souls come to earth to be negative and learn how to return home (to be positive).

So the purpose is to start in negative way and find a way to the positive way.

The path is:

positive -----> negative (positive was given, now we are put in negative to conquer the right to positive) -------->> to positive again (after you learn to be positive again, you earn the right to return to it, return home).

Our nature is positive, we forget what we are, in order to find ourselves again.

This is not the truth, its just my opinion.

Originally posted by arpgme
I heard that when you cause yourself to suffer you will be clearing negative karma and therefore good stuff will come back to you in the future? Is there any truth to this?

Could this be the reason why Jesus and Lao Tzu said that the last become first and the first become last? And why they talk humility / humbleness to people?

Could this be why they talked about GIVING to others (releasing things - allowing your precious stuff to go), so that you can RECEIVE in the future?

edit on 3-1-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Not cause yourself to suffer but knowing you will and proceeding anyway is the path.

The view of receiving never should come to mind if the heart is pure its the knowledge that you take this suffering upon yourself so that another may not suffer is what strengthens the soul.

I always love your threads arpgme

Originally posted by Aquarius2150
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

Are we not gods? We have the power to create the world around us, everything in your life is there because you created it, you thought about it and brought into the physical world

We have the power to end all suffering, I think 10,000 years of humans learning suffering and pain is enough at least I hope it is......
Love is the key to everything

Love is only the key to end the cycle just as fear is

Balance of the two is the key to everything

But its true that we potentially have that power if humanity can unite for just a moment

Less ego=more happiness.

Suffering is only useful in as much as it wears away the ego.
The ego is the identification with the body and the mind

Who suffers?

The body, and the mind.

Are you really the body and mind?