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Is this of truth? - negative goes positive - denying oneself (suffer) for future positivity?

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posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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I heard that when you cause yourself to suffer you will be clearing negative karma and therefore good stuff will come back to you in the future? Is there any truth to this?

Could this be the reason why Jesus and Lao Tzu said that the last become first and the first become last? And why they talk humility / humbleness to people?

Could this be why they talked about GIVING to others (releasing things - allowing your precious stuff to go), so that you can RECEIVE in the future?


edit on 3-1-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


It may hold some truth. It is infinitely more important to give than to receive, for the act of giving initiates the act of receiving. Without any giving, there can be no receiving.


Suffering and going through negative experiences is very important in our spiritual evolution. We really learn more from our negative experiences than we do from positive ones. If we fail to learn from the negative experience, we are doomed to repeat it until it is learned from. We must take something positive from our negative experiences so it gives us the chance to reflect on ourselves and our impact on the world.
edit on 3-1-2013 by Merlin Lawndart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by Merlin Lawndart
 


I guess I am more interested in the concept of suffering to have a happier future, and the teachings...


Sacrificing one's enjoyment from material goods by giving to another (GIVING).

Sacrificing one's pride, by placing another above himself (HUMILITY)

Sacrificing one's judgment, by excusing others of their actions/unfairness (FORGIVENESS)



There is also another phrase I just thought of "no pain, no gain" I know it is used in just exercising but maybe it is a metaphysical truth... I wonder what are others thoughts...



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
I heard that when you cause yourself to suffer you will be clearing negative karma and therefore good stuff will come back to you in the future? Is there any truth to this?

[color=cyan]1 has not heard this arpgme

Could this be the reason why Jesus and Lao Tzu said that the last become first and the first become last? And why they talk humility / humbleness to people?

[color=cyan]1 feels those positive beings you have mentioned attempted to bring intelligence they may have had into their current time fields to assist the herd more on a positive level back then?

The LORD allowed man to attack THE but could of very well allowed destruction upon man....... Instead AGAIN knowing intelligence related to different Spiritual fields the LORD JESUS CHRIST allowed? STRONGLY STRESSING ALLOWED man to petty attack THE in their foul ways of their MAIN? representing kingdom on EA*RTH back then Rome. This is the misconception 1 interprets when many say oh the died for them , just died for their sins, w/o looking further into what that may have ment.

So the last come first exct. to 1 relates to the humble who STRUGGLED NOT AS IF THEY WANTED LIFE LIKE THAT BUT STRUGGLED UNDER OPPRESSION all why being observed observed observed BY MORE POWER FORCES/ENERGIES that manage the first and last when it counts in soul... question for somes selves.. when the oppressor oppresses many into death who made it to the other side first to accept their BLESS. second for those who still are read.. Second is left in VOID reality. think think think think what culd thi mean THEY OBSERVED IT ALL energy placed INDEED..

So my friend basically judge or THE 1 judge most highest THE CREATOR-GOD SENDER-TRUE ALL SEEING NO MATTER DIMENSION OR UNIVERSAL LOCATION has govern ship OVER ALL OUR/souls/ internal energies/Spirits and thus in the present past future decides where many shall end up within existence. As we interact as CREATOR Creations in either positive or negative ways w/ EACH OTHER

Could this be why they talked about GIVING to others (releasing things - allowing your precious stuff to go), so that you can RECEIVE in the future?
[color=cyan] 1 does not know, arpgme...

edit on 3-1-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)


LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA
NAMASTE*******
edit on 1/3/13 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Some do the self suffering act to relate and remind others and them of those who are still struggling as to not forget the suffering. But that's as close as I can find other then my original post arpgme...



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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In the end the CREATOR/GOD decides happiness or as 1 calls it (FURTHER Soul/Internal energy/Spirit) TESTING... With those who are designed to test souls integrity to further ASCEND.... And it seems logic that with the laws of attraction in mind some would or will eventually gravitate towards their like energies. And within those gather zones there may be the strongest. Speaking in the lower realms the strongest overlord the less strongest? ect.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:12 PM
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His Holiness The Dalai Lama on suffering.


One could say that it is our experience of suffering which connects us to others. It is the basis of our capacity for empathy.



While the Dalai Lama teaches that freedom from suffering is possible, we all must begin by accepting suffering as a natural fact of human existence and fearlessly facing our problems. While observing that suffering is part of life and acknowledging our natural aversion to life's troubles, the Dalai Lama observes that people avoid recognizing the reality of suffering as a natural aspect of existence. While you can not avoid or even lessen the sufferings of life, you can prepare yourself mentally. By reflecting on the natural occurrence of suffering all around you — the types of
 suffering that we are subject to — you are better able to confront and manage the troubles you will inevitably face.


On Compassion.


For the Dalai Lama compassion is both the source and the realization of those qualities that constitute happiness, such as love, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness. Compassion is realizing that the other person is also just like me. Hatred, jealousy and excessive attachment cause suffering and agitation. I feel that, again, it is compassion that can help you overcome these to move into a calm state of mind. Compassion is . . . realizing that the other person is also just like me. That recognition is the basis on which you can develop compassion not only towards those around you but also towards your enemy. Normally, when we think about our enemy, we think about harming him. Instead, try to remember that the enemy is also a human being. He or she has the right to be happy, just as you do.


You must learn suffering to learn compassion. If someone has never suffered in life (born into money) they willl never understand the feeling the need to help someone by giving them love and kindness because they don't have to or understand suffering such as a homeless child in North Korea knows suffering.

Hope this helps



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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I feel it depends on how you look at suffering and what your motives would be.

It could be said that there is no need to suffer if one releases attachment and focuses on compassion to all sentient beings.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Are we not gods? We have the power to create the world around us, everything in your life is there because you created it, you thought about it and brought into the physical world


We have the power to end all suffering, I think 10,000 years of humans learning suffering and pain is enough at least I hope it is......
Love is the key to everything



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by LuckyBamboo
 


Ones motive should be to be greedy for the feeling of love and acceptance by giving love and acceptance.
If I made a painting and it was the most beautiful painting you ever saw. A person living in love and kindness would give that painting to you knowing it will bring you happiness. But living in the world we are in now if I don't SELL that painting I don't eat.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarius2150
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Are we not gods? We have the power to create the world around us, everything in your life is there because you created it, you thought about it and brought into the physical world


We have the power to end all suffering, I think 10,000 years of humans learning suffering and pain is enough at least I hope it is......
Love is the key to everything


1 has not called 1z self a GOD. But 1 understands your thinking, and agree LOVE is the force needed to compile our differences to bring forth better outcomes collectively as CREATOR Creations.

NAMASTE*******



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
I heard that when you cause yourself to suffer you will be clearing negative karma and therefore good stuff will come back to you in the future? Is there any truth to this?

Could this be the reason why Jesus and Lao Tzu said that the last become first and the first become last? And why they talk humility / humbleness to people?

Could this be why they talked about GIVING to others (releasing things - allowing your precious stuff to go), so that you can RECEIVE in the future?

From my own personal experience, becoming a martyr so others benefit doesn't actually work. Maybe this is because I'm not a spiritual leader or worldwide sage.

Basically, though, when I make myself suffer, my life is awful and I feel like crap. When I take the time to administer to my own needs of the heart, things immediately become better because my suffering ends and I can then focus on helping and loving others.

I'm talking about emotional suffering, because money and stuff have never really mattered much to me. I think you are talking about living in poverty (ala Mother Teresa), but that really isn't suffering to a lot of people.

I don't know if there is an answer to this question besides, "Well, it all depends on the situation, arpgme."

edit on 1/3/13 by ottobot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Happiness doesn't come from things of the world. It comes from within. So, there's no use in seeking material comfort because there is no such comfort.

Humility allows you to be aware of the greater things in the universe. The bigger picture. Unity. Whereas pride allows you to believe you are the greatest thing in the universe. In an absolute sense, both are true. But from an experiential standpoint, only humility is true. From an experiential standpoint, you are a human. From an absolute perspective, you are the whole universe. But all of your actions happen as your human self. You don't see yourself controlling the entire universe, although this is true. Therefore, humility is the most relevant.

The only way you can truly help others is to let them be themselves. And this allows you to be your self. Then, the spirit is revealed. The spirit is of truth. Things are seen without the shadows of your ideals hding what is there, showing you what you want to see. The spirit is of truth and freedom. Things are allowed to be what they are without the shadow of your ideals telling them to be what you want them to be.

But that's kind of off topic. Sorry. We were talking about pride vs. Humility. The humble one sees the glory of what is seen. The prideful one sees the glory of what is not seen, and therefore sees no glory because there is nothing seen. And what good is glory if it is not seen? But pride is something. What it feels like, after a while is that all that glory is attacking you. Instead of giving the light of glory to the world, all that light is coming unto you, and you are being destroyed, and you can feel your soul being consumed. It is a physical pain that feels like sickness.


edit on 3-1-2013 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-1-2013 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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A really lovely thread.


love compassion truth, a timeless message.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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Those who are a source of light, see no light but see the light reflected back to them from others. Those with pride attempt to look at their own light and are blinded by it.

Or rather, they see no light at all, but only how they imagine themselves to be. You can't see light when it's traveling away from you. But you can see it once it reflects back at you.
edit on 3-1-2013 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:51 PM
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There are two paths. Truth and lies. One exists, the other one causes suffering. There are actions that are right because they are rooted in truth, and there are actions that are wrong because they are rooted in lies. There is good in the truth, and bad from a lie. You can experience the truth, or you can experience a lie.

If you wish to experience the truth, see the world without being afraid of what you will see. See the world without wishing that it was different. See the world.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 03:56 AM
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Lovely answers everyone. Thank you for response.


Just in case the original question wasn't clear, here is what I was asking:


If there is karma, would allowing yourself to suffer lead to a better future?

Let me give some examples, you are creating something and you suffer - tiring yourself out and using all your effort - but because you suffered with so much energy and effort, the thing that you made comes out beautiful.

Or, you allow yourself to suffer by putting others before yourself, and somehow people see that and in the future treat you well...

Suffering eliminating bad karma and putting in a good future (with more positive karma since you cleared it by making yourself suffer).

It seems as though, from bad things, good things seem to manifest. From problems/confusion, there is clarity/answers/LEARNING. From conflict, there are solutions that will make the people closer. From pain and suffering, there is strength. The body has to suffer (exercising) before it can grow stronger with muscles and stuff.
edit on 4-1-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 04:30 AM
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If you allow yourself to suffer, you allow yourself to suffer. The only benefit i can see of intentional suffering is that if you put yourself through the forms of the worst kinds of suffering, you might be tougher to some of the smaller things that had made you suffer in the past.



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 





The body has to suffer (exercising) before it can grow stronger with muscles and stuff.


Amen to that. There is no viable alternative to being strong. Even enlightenment is pale prize in comparison. If your blood brother is enliightenment make your you flight him at day breakbreak on the hill. There can only be one strong truth that walks away from the hill.
edit on 4-1-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2013 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


The Buddha recognized that there is suffering in humans and went to find out why they suffer. Firstly one must recognize that he is suffering and then investigate it.
I used to have the belief that one must suffer and until one did one would not get 'better'. The formula is about suffering somehow but not in more suffering but the removal of suffering by realizing why one suffers.

When creating something that takes time and energy it should not be done suffering, each and every moment that is spent should be a joy. The end product should not be what holds the joy, why wait? Why split life into good stuff (end product) and bad stuff (making product). Peace and 'happiness' or the 'end of suffering' happens because life is not cut into bits.

Never expect people to treat you well because you allow them to walk all over you, unless you want suffering.
It seems to me that you want to suffer now so you can be happy later. There is no later - it's always now, so why are you waiting to be free of suffering?
edit on 4-1-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



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