Violent video games and movies are conditioning people "Pavlov style" to massacre and murder as

reply to post by unityemissions


I don't buy it.

Im sorry.

I really think its a Mental issue from the beginning, not a Gaming issue after the fact.....

None of these studys are giving violent Murders with Mental issues, the ability to play violent video games, as a research study. I would think if that did happen, almost ALL of them would want to commit acts of violence. I think all of them would want to kill without the video games too.


Some folks cant escape the fantasy's or nightmares they hide in.

Throw a study like this in too, while we are at it.

Researchers at the King’s College London Institute of Psychiatry and the University of Bristol released a study that finds domestic violence is more common in adults diagnosed with a mental disorder – regardless of the specific diagnosis.

Violent Tendencies Magnified By Mental Illness and Societal Pressures, Says Study

Its a Mental issue.

reply to post by unityemissions

first study based entirely off of surveys, no actual observations of increased violence or science was done.

the second study is a complete sham. listening to classical music for 20 mins, then taking an IQ test will boost scores. why? the brain has been pre-primed. you would get the same exact results if you used people playing a competitive game of basketball vs a group playing monopoly. activities affect neurotransmitter releases in the short term, and those playing a competitive game of basketball will have more norepinephrine flowing from axons to dendrites than people playing monopoly for a time afterwards in response. this is a natural brain response, similar to a car using more gas as you go faster. in a normal brain, video games could never cause the production of enough norepinephrine, or cause a big enough adrenaline release to trigger a murderous rampage.

the third is just a study ON studies, like the two jokes above it. seriously, does no one pay attention in psychology, or use the scientific method these days?

the 4th one is just like the third, and based on similar shoddy research and analysis methods as the first two.

reply to post by sonnny1

I''m not sure what the answer is, to be honest. Banning games is silly and stupid. About as logical as banning anything else. Actually, less logic since half the kids these days can easily teach themselves to write the games that would be banned or restricted.

However, in all fairness and to give better context to the overall topic, I wouldn't look at Starcraft, Command and Conquer or the Diablo series for examples. RTS games are nothing like what I'd conisder desensitizing. Those are the style of games I was playing before I turned 10 in terms of realism that mattered for anything. I wouldn't even necessarily include the Battlefield Series or C.O.D. games ..although thats sure getting closer.

Let me ask you something though... Have you spent any time playing the Saints Row series or the latest GTA series games? Starcraft doesn't actually give points for beating down whoever happens by on the street and then dropping little cash bundles in a puddle of blood when you've managed to kick them to death. I've noticed, oddly, women drop more money sometimes too.... I think it's the prostitute theme on that side of things, but still. It's not RTS Overhead views....but in their face as your avatar is beating the stuffing out of them.

Now figure doing that a few thousand times before the game gets boring and you run off to find a better one to download or get from a friend ....and 6 or 7 or 8 years old. It HAS to have an impact. I can't see how it doesn't?

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

1
2
3
4

I got those for starters, and more than a dozen that I can pile on top of it if you really want it.

Please note that a couple deal with meta-analysis, and address the issues concerning many previous studies which seemed to show there was no link.

*cracks knuckles*:

Link 1 - This study has not yet been peer-reviewed, as the subject data has not been released to the wider community, including the study details in its own right (questions, pre-existing psychological state of the subjects in question.). I wouldnt expect a result for this until 2015 at the very earliest.
Link 2 - Uses same MU data, pretty much a re-hash of Link 1
Link 3 - Given i have access to this study - "Psychological Science September 2001 12: 353-359", this is a 11 year old study, and i do not believe its completely valid now, and it has been archived.
Link 4 - Sadly for some reason i couldnt access berkeley's site to get the PDF, so i can not comment

TESA - Violence in Video games - These articles range from 2011 back to 2006, however i might add the studies posted are mostly peer reviewed however because of the site in question its obviously "pro-gaming".

Dr. Stanton Samenow on "The Circle" - Dr. Samenow in my opinion is the foremost expert in this, since he has specialized in criminal behavior.

Simply blaming the media (Gaming and/or Film) isn't a valid 'excuse' is not a valid argument, there are scientists on both sides of the fence (for and against), what you are all missing is the outside mitigating factors, which causes the psychological break which resulted in said crime. Yes people who are "prone" to aggressive behavior could be set off by x event within a video game or movie, but the same event in a social situation (drinking usually) can cause the same reaction, do we blame the alcohol? The victim? No, no we don't.

What this is, simply put is two sides pressing their own agenda's (think the Ponds Institutes rumored method of science), you will find any group that is anti-entertainment will be simply looking for an excuse to take the lime-light off their group's vision, conversely of course there are gamers stating that its all rubbish. What should be done is better access to mental healthcare, and the media to either post all the facts or post nothing at all.

One of my friends said this on the subject a few months back: "I read and watch a lot of the bond, it doesn't mean i can be a spy for the MI6 or seduce women on a whim, the fact that i have been single for 5 years now is a testament to that".

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Nowhere in these writings can I find evidence that they were more likely to be violent towards another person for no reason. Agression and violence are different things.

But overall, I see your point.

~Tenth

Thanks.

The OP may be trying to argue that point, but I'm not. I'm saying that it seems to be a contributing factor towards acts of aggression in society, overall. I'm saying that we seem to be affected by the entertainment industry to an extent of which most don't comprehend.

I think whatever happened to that kid was a great many things over his 20 years of life. It would seem foolish to separate the individual, from the social institutions and cultural programming which he is surrounded by. In some way which we will never see, we all have blood on our hands. That is the way I see it.


reply to post by Spruk


It pains me to even have to offer, but if you really like, I can spend two minutes of my time the same as anyone else, and find at least a dozen more studies for you to critique. . . or you could take the time to do the same on your own.

reply to post by grandmakdw


and old game Metal Gear solid basically as you play deep within it you begin to get intel discussing how children are being VR trained to fight some type of future war against ai or something it was a long time ago when that came out for xbox 1 but again the way they relay the messages thru military command in the game are very interesting all the way down to the skull suits...

So it is possible your scenario presented CAN be having some subconscious programming effects on the human conscious...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Agreed what your saying.

And to the class, what does starcraft have to do with violence anyway, really? Absolutely nothing!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I have played most Super Mario Bros games since they have come out, in 1985. Almost 30 years later I have never wanted to jump on a turtle.

So I do not see how your cause and effect add up?

now looper was a good movie but the issue undertone B.W had to play 1 wondered... If that was used in the subconscious programming as you mentioned how would it come out in the physical from the metaphysical --visual/audio-- programming

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by unityemissions

 

the third is just a study ON studies, like the two jokes above it. seriously, does no one pay attention in psychology, or use the scientific method these days?

the 4th one is just like the third, and based on similar shoddy research and analysis methods as the first two.

Do you understand what the purpose of a meta-analysis is

Poor debunk.

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I have plaid most Super Mario Bros games since they have come out, in 1985. Almost 30 years later I have never wanted to jump on a turtle.

So I do not see how your cause and effect add up?

but many fear reptiles... and reptilians hmm Koopa-Mario

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

some games are more more gory than nessisarry, and have themes that aren't appropriate, but using an avatar to kill another avatar, even in a very brutal way, doesn't come close to invoking the emotional upheaval and trauma of actually doing it to another human.

video games may get intense and increase adrenaline, but they don't mirror the responses that come with true violence. people can become desensitized to violent video games by playing them, but they'd be freaking out if they truly witnessed a real life violent scene of someone getting burned to death, the screams and the smell, or someone actually having their head blown off.

i challenge you to take a hardcore gamer that plays violent video games, hook them up to an eeg, and take them to the ER. show them a femur that has ripped out sideways from someone's leg with only the skin and muscle holding the rest of the leg on, or a serious burn victim. they'd freak out. i guarantee it.

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I have plaid most Super Mario Bros games since they have come out, in 1985. Almost 30 years later I have never wanted to jump on a turtle.

So I do not see how your cause and effect add up?

Actually I will admit I did back in '85. I dressed up as mario with my red hat with m on it that I used with a magic marker and decided to jumped on a snapping turtle out in the country. When I told my mom instead of collecting points, I got the "whop" sound of a belt.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


All I can say is properly diagnosing your children, for Mental disorders should be every parents choice to do so. Letting 6,7,8 year old play GTA, again a Parents choice, but not a good one in my eyes. I think Morals and Principles should be first and foremost for a child. Love, and getting them help if they show Mental problems early. The only way to do that, is to be in your kids lives daily. Not letting a TV or Game be the Parent.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

some games are more more gory than nessisarry, and have themes that aren't appropriate, but using an avatar to kill another avatar, even in a very brutal way, doesn't come close to invoking the emotional upheaval and trauma of actually doing it to another human.

video games may get intense and increase adrenaline, but they don't mirror the responses that come with true violence. people can become desensitized to violent video games by playing them, but they'd be freaking out if they truly witnessed a real life violent scene of someone getting burned to death, the screams and the smell, or someone actually having their head blown off.

i challenge you to take a hardcore gamer that plays violent video games, hook them up to an eeg, and take them to the ER. show them a femur that has ripped out sideways from someone's leg with only the skin and muscle holding the rest of the leg on, or a serious burn victim. they'd freak out. i guarantee it.

it comes out more with drone uav umv warfare HAVE YOU SEEN THE SCREEN SHOTS Its Target-Zoom-Attack in about as much time as it takes in the games and similar grip hand devices

reply to post by grandmakdw


I don't understand the seatbelt analogy. There is a difference between accidents and willingness to kill.

That said, I think there is a point in some aspects. I don't think that violent games have an effect when played regularly and by most people. HOWEVER when you have mentally unstable people, on medications that make them violent/suicidal, and then you have them completely emersed in these games and playing them all day, everyday, with no work/friends/etc, then in those cases they may very well be a factor.

reply to post by unityemissions

yes, i do. a juxtaposition of studies. it's just that they're not effective when the base studies are flawed, as i demonstrated.

a reaction to a stimulus doesn't necessitate long term change. many things with the human psyche are more or less set, such as a person's pain tolerance, their temperament, and stress patterns. it takes quite a bit to break them. far more stimulus than what current games and t.v. can provide.

this does not mean that i am for senseless violence on t.v. and in games, merely that it has little real world effects.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
HOWEVER when you have mentally unstable people, on medications that make them violent/suicidal, and then you have them completely emersed in these games and playing them all day, everyday, with no work/friends/etc, then in those cases they may very well be a factor.

What do you think the percentage is for the Millions of people that do play games?

And, WHY isn't their MORE killings, if this is indeed a factor?

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by unityemissions

 

I don't buy it.

Im sorry.

I really think its a Mental issue from the beginning, not a Gaming issue after the fact.....

It's always a "mental issue", and I don't think that all acts of violence are caused by video games I'm just saying you've gotta be. . . mentally deficit to not intuit the link. Yep, gifted minds seem to be deficit in some areas as well. . .

None of these studys are giving violent Murders with Mental issues, the ability to play violent video games, as a research study. I would think if that did happen, almost ALL of them would want to commit acts of violence. I think all of them would want to kill without the video games too.

That's the problem. How would we ever know for sure? People who commit murder are so rare. Unless we have a time machine, we couldn't really assess if this were the case or not. It seems we have to rely on our common sense... which it seems many people on ATS are lacking.

Some folks cant escape the fantasy's or nightmares they hide in.

Agreed.

Throw a study like this in too, while we are at it.

Researchers at the King’s College London Institute of Psychiatry and the University of Bristol released a study that finds domestic violence is more common in adults diagnosed with a mental disorder – regardless of the specific diagnosis.

Violent Tendencies Magnified By Mental Illness and Societal Pressures, Says Study

Its a Mental issue.

Of course the issue is mental.

Look, this is like saying something a disease is "genetic". It's soooo old school and we know soooo much better than throwing that blanket statement around these days, at least we should.

The truth is very few diseases are purely genetic, and most deal with genetic susceptibilities interacting with environmental variables.

Same damned thing here. There is a genetic component, which is expressed, silenced, upregulated, downregulated... and all matter of variations between the gene, and the thought. . . based on environmental factors.

You simply can't fully separate the two.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

it comes out more with drone uav umv warfare HAVE YOU SEEN THE SCREEN SHOTS Its Target-Zoom-Attack in about as much time as it takes in the games and similar grip hand devices

except that REAL PEOPLE are being killed, and the operator has this knowledge. that's why there are more suicides in the military than soldiers lost in battles. it takes a toll.

videogames cannot desensitize people to real world violence. kids may joke, but as i said, take 'em to the emergency room and watch them turn pale.