Violent video games and movies are conditioning people "Pavlov style" to massacre and murder as

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
To the posters who mention the objective of games being to save people. Does anyone remember the game State of Emergency I think put out by Rockstar the makers of Grand Theft Auto? The entire game was nothing more than you going through malls and public places mowing down as many innocent people as you can. At what point does it stop being entertainment and is instead a sadistic thrill kill simulation? There is no objective in this game and no noble story to tell. This is an example of the shock jock mentality that has pervaded many mediums.

Excellent point to the above poster about the Romans and entertainment. I am constantly reminded of Brave New World. As long as the people had drug induced orgies and entertainment they never thought to even question their existence.

Pointing a gun at someone, pulling the trigger and killing them is violent....

So what if it is a policeman shooting dead a crazed maniac?

The act of shooting and killing is exactly the same, it's how it's interprerted that counts. Driving around the streets running people down is clearly a bit nuts... but in a game... IT'S A GAME!!

Originally posted by grandmakdw
Through classical and operant conditioning violent video games and are training the population to reduce itself through pre-conditioned massacre.

Through "precognitive loading" we have trained youngsters and people to react with massacre on unconscious levels.

Hollywood is making propaganda movies teaching our population that massacre can be justified.

I saw on TV a NCIS LA where the main characters stood over a pile of dead bodies and joked with each other. How sick!

You may say, I play them and nothing has happened, I'm a good guy. Well when I was a kid I was never in a car seat and never wore a seat belt and nothing happened.
Can't we learn from experience?

Are TPTB encouraging violent movies, tv and video games to reduce the surplus population?

I disagree as well but I'm willing to see any proof you can provide.

Lima-1, out.

reply to post by Mister_Bit


The games become more realistic with each passing year. At what point does reality and simulation merge. Say in the future we possess some type of "holo-deck" and the games characters look just like real people. Would you want your child to be in a real life simulation killing people that might look like your neighbor?

I also see the normalcy bias applied here in this conversation the "Im not violent and neither is my neighbor so it must not exist" argument.

The problem isn't that people don't see the harm done the problem is people are not willing to sacrifice entertainment even if it could be beneficial to them.

Originally posted by johngalt722

Originally posted by abeverage

I am curious though if you are more desensitized to see actually murder or caring about it? As video games become more and more realistic at what point do you draw the line at beating a digital hooker and calling abuse? When an A.I. in game can scream, struggle and run do we have empathy for them as we do our fellow humans?

I think that it may play a part in desensitizing murder and violence, but a very minute part. You could say that anything at all involving violence plays a role in desensitizing it (TV, radio, books, real life). We can't avoid everything.

In a movie we can identify as the character or any character for that matter. But we can also distance ourselves from them as well detaching our identity from that of the work of fiction. The same can be said of radio show, or a good work of written fiction.

However in the case of Video games we are often completely identified with the characters as we control the actions, the pace and in open worlds their digital destiny. It is one reason role-playing and cosplay have become so popular the willingness and desire to be that character outside the digital world.

To me the video game is a whole different experience, one that allows people with homicidal tendencies to act out those fantasies which may have been mild thoughts previously. It allows them to get that rush of endorphins without physically acting out the fantasy. But much like a drug addict they may find themselves fantasizing about the act until it manifests in the real world.

Basically what I am saying here is that someone predisposed to mental illness may actually be creating a worse scenario by playing violent video games. Someone who has impulses but never had an outlet to give increase to those feelings maybe would have never crossed that line.

Sure most of us can draw the line between fantasy and reality, but those that can't this is much like an open bottle of beer sat down in front of alcoholic.

And as a side note I am curious do you ever feel empathy toward your digital prey/foe/combatant?

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by johngalt722

Originally posted by abeverage

I am curious though if you are more desensitized to see actually murder or caring about it? As video games become more and more realistic at what point do you draw the line at beating a digital hooker and calling abuse? When an A.I. in game can scream, struggle and run do we have empathy for them as we do our fellow humans?

I think that it may play a part in desensitizing murder and violence, but a very minute part. You could say that anything at all involving violence plays a role in desensitizing it (TV, radio, books, real life). We can't avoid everything.

In a movie we can identify as the character or any character for that matter. But we can also distance ourselves from them as well detaching our identity from that of the work of fiction. The same can be said of radio show, or a good work of written fiction.

However in the case of Video games we are often completely identified with the characters as we control the actions, the pace and in open worlds their digital destiny. It is one reason role-playing and cosplay have become so popular the willingness and desire to be that character outside the digital world.

To me the video game is a whole different experience, one that allows people with homicidal tendencies to act out those fantasies which may have been mild thoughts previously. It allows them to get that rush of endorphins without physically acting out the fantasy. But much like a drug addict they may find themselves fantasizing about the act until it manifests in the real world.

Basically what I am saying here is that someone predisposed to mental illness may actually be creating a worse scenario by playing violent video games. Someone who has impulses but never had an outlet to give increase to those feelings maybe would have never crossed that line.

Sure most of us can draw the line between fantasy and reality, but those that can't this is much like an open bottle of beer sat down in front of alcoholic.

And as a side note I am curious do you ever feel empathy toward your digital prey/foe/combatant?

I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure people aren't ""predisposed to mental illness""

You either are mentally ill or not, but I will agree that violent games may "trigger" the mental illness but not cause it.. therefore the problem isn't the game but the mental illness.

I wont become violent from a violent game because I'm not mentally unstable, someone mentally unstable might become violent because it "triggers" them... not the games fault in any respect.... Same way someone may have a reactive shock to a bee sting... that's not the bee's fault.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by johngalt722

Originally posted by abeverage

I am curious though if you are more desensitized to see actually murder or caring about it? As video games become more and more realistic at what point do you draw the line at beating a digital hooker and calling abuse? When an A.I. in game can scream, struggle and run do we have empathy for them as we do our fellow humans?

I think that it may play a part in desensitizing murder and violence, but a very minute part. You could say that anything at all involving violence plays a role in desensitizing it (TV, radio, books, real life). We can't avoid everything.

In a movie we can identify as the character or any character for that matter. But we can also distance ourselves from them as well detaching our identity from that of the work of fiction. The same can be said of radio show, or a good work of written fiction.

However in the case of Video games we are often completely identified with the characters as we control the actions, the pace and in open worlds their digital destiny. It is one reason role-playing and cosplay have become so popular the willingness and desire to be that character outside the digital world.

To me the video game is a whole different experience, one that allows people with homicidal tendencies to act out those fantasies which may have been mild thoughts previously. It allows them to get that rush of endorphins without physically acting out the fantasy. But much like a drug addict they may find themselves fantasizing about the act until it manifests in the real world.

Basically what I am saying here is that someone predisposed to mental illness may actually be creating a worse scenario by playing violent video games. Someone who has impulses but never had an outlet to give increase to those feelings maybe would have never crossed that line.

Sure most of us can draw the line between fantasy and reality, but those that can't this is much like an open bottle of beer sat down in front of alcoholic.

And as a side note I am curious do you ever feel empathy toward your digital prey/foe/combatant?

I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure people aren't ""predisposed to mental illness""

You either are mentally ill or not, but I will agree that violent games may "trigger" the mental illness but not cause it.. therefore the problem isn't the game but the mental illness.

I wont become violent from a violent game because I'm not mentally unstable, someone mentally unstable might become violent because it "triggers" them... not the games fault in any respect.... Same way someone may have a reactive shock to a bee sting... that's not the bee's fault.

Maybe I should have said genetically or mentally predisposed to mental illness. But young minds that have not completely formed could be being modified to be more more unstable and then mental conditioned to think this is societies normal view. Do you see what I am saying with this? We have had video games for 30+ years and not a lot of data on the effects of mental conditioning of a developing mind.

Personally I think they are changing peoples behaviors and not in good ways.

reply to post by abeverage


Just want to add to the above that we also should include SSRI drugs as a possible catalyst as well. Essentially a cocktail of drugs, mental stability, and conditioning through desensitization or perhaps even providing a fantasy context in which delinquent desires can grow.

Originally posted by superluminal11
All i watched growing up was horror and violent movies

I played Duke Nukem and GTA 1-4 for hrs on end blowing up pedestrians, helicopters, police cars, swat trucks and sniping from rooftops.

I haven't killed anyone nor do i plan on it ever. Never been arrested.
I'm also taking Zoloft.

You realize no matter how brilliant you are in psychology or sociology you can never predict violent behavior in the real world.

Being that you're on Zoloft, you're not exactly making a good case for yourself. Didn't you know those drugs make people crazier?

One thing that's always bothered me is the glorification and automatic "hero" status bestowed upon members of our military. People on television are constantly thanking them for their "service" and "protecting our freedom." The real heroes are those who refuse to engage in this nonsensical violence, even at great personal risk. I knew a man who was being compelled to join armed forces in Iran in the early 80's, instead he lived in the desert with Bedouins for over half a year of constant moving before making it to the United States. Now that's a real hero, not some meathead that thinks he's doing the world a favor by trying to eradicate Islam.

Originally posted by abeverage
Maybe I should have said genetically or mentally predisposed to mental illness. But young minds that have not completely formed could be being modified to be more more unstable and then mental conditioned to think this is societies normal view. Do you see what I am saying with this? We have had video games for 30+ years and not a lot of data on the effects of mental conditioning of a developing mind.

Personally I think they are changing peoples behaviors and not in good ways.

That's why games have age classifications...

This little story tells an alarming tale. Pretty obvious the dangers in what the military is doing with these brutal games and conditioning youth to said violence. you have to be 17 to be recruited but come on in 13 year olds to play our war zone simulators. Somehow this has a real Orwellian feel to it.

reply to post by grandmakdw


Agreed.

Video Games, Movies, Music, Company's do part in with contributing towards the violence & mind retaliations concerning today's situation regarding the effect of public violations, Can't say most more % then those with mental illness, i would say they are at equal balance with a gap in mind being "Knowing what's right & Knowing what's wrong.

Star&Flag

Been playing violent video games since wolfenstein 3d, been watching violent movies
since i was about 8-10ish, chuck norris, van damn, the a team, between shows and
movies i could honestly list at least 100 by name, not to mention cartoons, as an adult
i have never had a violent outburst at anything animate or alive, have never been charged
with any crime for that matter, action movies are by far my favorite genre of movie, but
you know what? my mother made it a point when i was a child to explain that these things
were fantasy, not reality, that seemed to work out just fine.

I am tired of all these prohibition everyone seems convinced will fix the world, make
sure everyone does things the way a select few seem to believe, without evidence
mind you, works and it will all be A ok, well i hate to tell ya, it wouldn't fix anything,
some folks will be violent no matter what we do, that is just the truth.

Originally posted by bloodreviara
Been playing violent video games since wolfenstein 3d, been watching violent movies
since i was about 8-10ish, chuck norris, van damn, the a team, between shows and
movies i could honestly list at least 100 by name, not to mention cartoons, as an adult
i have never had a violent outburst at anything animate or alive, have never been charged
with any crime for that matter, action movies are by far my favorite genre of movie, but
you know what? my mother made it a point when i was a child to explain that these things
were fantasy, not reality, that seemed to work out just fine.

I am tired of all these prohibition everyone seems convinced will fix the world, make
sure everyone does things the way a select few seem to believe, without evidence
mind you, works and it will all be A ok, well i hate to tell ya, it wouldn't fix anything,
some folks will be violent no matter what we do, that is just the truth.

Jinx! Posted what's below at the same exact time.

As an avid video game player, I have to disagree. I've played video games since the Sega Genesis, so like the age of 7-8? I'm also -not- diagnosed with autism or asperger's syndrome, although I'm not very good in social situations nonetheless. I spend 6+ hours a day, some days, role-playing a "Werewolf/Demon/Vampire/etc" in a "virtual reality" like game called Second Life. Trust me, I've never gone out on a full moon with the idea of biting some people. Hell, I've never even been in a physical fight in my short 22 years of life. And trust me, I've played just about every violent game under the sun. At least, the main stream ones.

Now, if you wanna discuss giving people with mental illness the access to play these same games, I'm all for it, but I find it stupid to call for a full on ban of violent video games to everyone. What's next? "Hey Junior, No playing imaginary army men with your friends. I'm banning your GI Joes too!"

I was obsessed with Donkey Kong as a kid, and never had the urge to jump over barrels in real life. But I do think certain people are more prone to being "conditioned" by video games than others, just as some people are more susceptible to hypnosis than others. Unfortunately, I don't know of any test used to measure someone's susceptibility. But if there was such a test, I'm sure everyone responsible for mass shootings would fail quite handily.

Simply put, no they are not. As others have said, I have been playing video games for about 20 years and I have never once had the urge to massacre, murder or do violence....

That is a ludicrous speculation and assumption on your part, OP.... The average person is not going to be moved to violence... And the not so average person... Who goes out and does violence... They do that because of themselves...They are responsible for their own actions... Not video games...

You watch this and see how video games REALLY effect the lives and psyche of people.

( There is cussing so not safe for work ...Unless you have a cool boss like mine! )

OP....You....Are wrong.

Games help 'reduce aggression'

...if anything, there is more evidence to show that the violent games reduce aggression and violence...

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by abeverage
Maybe I should have said genetically or mentally predisposed to mental illness. But young minds that have not completely formed could be being modified to be more more unstable and then mental conditioned to think this is societies normal view. Do you see what I am saying with this? We have had video games for 30+ years and not a lot of data on the effects of mental conditioning of a developing mind.

Personally I think they are changing peoples behaviors and not in good ways.

That's why games have age classifications...

Enforced how? LOL

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by abeverage

 

Just want to add to the above that we also should include SSRI drugs as a possible catalyst as well. Essentially a cocktail of drugs, mental stability, and conditioning through desensitization or perhaps even providing a fantasy context in which delinquent desires can grow.

Agreed where as kids when I was a kid were just hyper, or under exercised and excitable which is actually I think a default for kids! They are now deemed to have a mental condition and are over medicated and spend hours (HOURS) a day online and playing video games with little or no adult supervision or attention. Rarely getting outside and anyone that thinks this has no effect on the brain is in denial. I am still amazed about people having children thinking of them much like a neglected pet that is never cared for taken on walks and giving respect and attention as a small human being. It boggles my mind that there are people that believe that children are something different then an adult human that has yet to gain experience. Selfish parents involved only with their own needs and wants plopping a child in front of the TV/Game station so that they can be good and ignored or kept busy...

To anyone over 25-30 arguing this is moot because your brain developed before most of the extremely violent video games and highly potent medications (Which cause some startling side effects).

The OP has a rather simplified view of things, a bumper-sticker-msm-pop-psych answer to a more complicated issue. A few things should be observed.

1. I haven't studied the issue, but I can't recall one person accused, or convicted, of an "act out" crime saying video games caused it. So at best, the conclusions are drawn from connecting dots and not from experience. Even if they did say so, would it have any more validity then, "my mom was mean to me" or "kids taunted me in school" or "I just feel so isolated and alone" or "there is no reason, I just did it to stir things up?"

2. Many of the "act out" events (notice the act out = little kids psych speak) are implausible on every level. Someone wants us to believe that young, often physically soft children - teenagers, with little to no experience killing people in a crazed furious fashion, are experts because they have played killing games a video screen? A skill that military men, who practice countless hours perfecting, are not that great at. I have read that to kill a person, a moving target in a chaotic scenario, requires several bullets, not just one per person. But, evidently, if you play video games, and never practice with a real gun, you can blow away anything at all when you want too. By this process, the best race car drivers should be the gaming experts - I dare say not ONE solely gaming kid could drive a race car at all, and Tiger Woods golfing game experts should be better the TW himself.

3. What the violence in the games does is make people, especially younger people, more aloof, more distant, more anti social in general. They are less interactive with others outside their group and the interaction isn't all that stellar. But more than that, it creates a need for stimulation, constant stimulation, which, often requires drugs to remove the nervous system drain. This is by design, you'll need to do some SERIOUS research to find the truth on this, and not exclusively on the first google search page.

4. Not everyone is bothered by the game energy. Fine, the idea that someone determines a logic system by which, "It didn't bother me none" is a standard of measure is ludicrous on every level. If it bothers your brother, who now can't sit still after three hours of Grand Theft Auto, and yells, screams, behaves like an ass, thereby disturbing YOUR ability to study - then it is affecting you! Aren't there dozens of YT videos of kids freaking out when the games are taken away, and doesn't that affect everyone in the house?

Be VERY weary of "this causes that" stuff as it is always met with draconian responses to "stop the problem." There are BILLIONS of people, BILLIONS, and occasionally one or two go nuts! Okay. Keep in mind the US Military and its allies killed, arguably, 1 million Iraqi people in order to liberate them. In fact, Drones are now killing in video game style, quite a large number of people who have never been convicted of anything - just like the random people killed in any shooting scenario. Johnny Video Game Expert is now, executioner via the will of the State, as he sits behind the drone video game for hours, hunting, searching, and eventually killing images on a screen. Yet,few say, "gee, are these damn video games making these Military guys kill more and more, without regard for who they kill?" Why not?