It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Debt Prisons

page: 1
<<   2 >>

log in


posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:21 PM
I am going to discuss debt mainly in a way relevant to the UK as I know the laws here but I suspect what I might say would be relevant to other Western Nations too. Does anybody here believe they have been sold a kipper with debt and that it is being purposely used by your government to control you? I say this being a person that hit credit maturity at the time of the Credit for all boom and I fully accept the responsibility of taking that credit out in the first place. But I would say however that I did not understand the ramifications of that debt and how it would organically grow over the years to leave me in a position of which I am being completly controlled by it. No need to go into specifics or reasons but lets just say I have ended up in a big debt pickle much like many others have in recent times. Well I am at the stage where I can no longer afford to service my debt in the normal manner due to manyt factors all of which are another discussion. But what I do want to discuss is the effect the laws have on me regarding my debt and the debt prison it has locked me up inside.

The simple thing to do would be just to ignore the debt and run from it for 6 years until they legally could not chase me for it any longer but that would mean a great lifestyle change. I could not have a conventional bank account and I would not be able to vote because the debt collectors would find where I live from it. I cannot get a mobile phone contract or a television package, in fact I can not take part in any kind of social activity that involves some sort of credit reference. So this route of action against debt is unpalatable to say the least. Ok so lets explore facing up to the debt and paying it off through various plans like IVA, debt management or similar. This is where it gets complex and this is where it becomes more beneficial to be a social dropout rather than a productive member of society. It no longer pays to have the best possible paying job you can find, it no longer pays to do extra hours at work to get a little extra cash and it no longer pays to try and get ahead at work with a promotion. This is because for the next 5 years minimum you will not see any fruits of your labour.

The laws in this country state that if you get into debt problems you have to make a plan where you are allowed to keep money for the bare minimum of living and EVERYTHING extra is given straight to your creditors, hell if you decide that you are unwilling to do this then a judge will have the money taken straight from your wages before you even see it. So now you have absolutely no motivation to get on, no motivation to work extra hours and no motivation for life. No matter what you do you end up with the same outcome, just enough money to get by, no more, no less. Now for me this is the conspiracy, our governments do not want social mobility, they want those at the bottom of the class structure to stay at the bottom and those at the top to stay at the top. This is why I believe the government made it oh so easy to get into debt and to get into debt fast, they want us all in debt because they want us all to be restrained so that we cannot better ourselves, and want bigger houses or more luxurious cars. They want us to continue living off the scraps so that the rich can not only profit from our debts like they do but also have a greater share of the resources because we cannot obtain more because the government has shackled us with debt.

Now I know there will be those that say I should not have taken credit if I did not want this to happen, but I did not know this would happen when I taken credit. Credit leads to interest payments which leads to a greater demand for more cash, which is happily handed to you by your favourite bankster, despite your real ability to pay. I have been irresponsible in my time but it was all a mistake and largely down to lack of education in personal finances and lack of life experience. Now I am imprisioned Until Further Notice by the governments Debt Shackles. You may not see the prison walls or the dbt shackles around my ankles, but believe me they are there as they are for a growing number of people in society. The debt timebomb is ticking and with the increase in living expenses and the continued reduction of wages, more and more people will be sucked into the debt prison.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:39 PM
reply to post by michael1983l

seems to me you signed to create the "money" in the line of credit in the first place..

so why wouldn't you be able to sign & create a species of more "money" to set your affairs straight?

only the "connected" or "rich" can do that..

the rest of us have to rob peter to pay paul just to cover the interest, money not created at the initial time,

set in the system designed to drive people into foreclosure & debt.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:40 PM
reply to post by michael1983l

Star and Flag for you mate.

Yes, the debt trap is real.

The banksters are the scum of the earth.

I just hope Karma will catch up with them at some stage. And it will, some way or another.
They will pay for all the harm they have done to honest, hard working people.

This just makes me MAD !!

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:49 PM
Maybe you should consider bankrupcy as an option .
Have you tried to make an offer of payment , penny on the pound style ?

Banksters robbed a lot of people and they did it with the complicity of Government.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:53 PM
reply to post by michael1983l

s and f for you michael. I think it would be scary to realise how many people are in the debt prison. I congratulate myself in this being the fourth christmas where ive paid for everything out of my own pocket and not taken out a credit or loan. Having said that, i have a small C card debt, and i dont see how im ever going to be able to pay it off as i dont see my lifestyle changing. I manage to scrap together a min payment, but thats it. Id like to balance transfer it to make it cheaper, but i cant get a card because of my debt. All i can do is to tighten my belt as much as i can. I wouldnt go down the IVA route if i was you, becauses its quite extreme, but if its the only solution, then theres no choice.

I think credit cards are being given away to young adults who often have no idea of how to manage theyre money, or the implication of the future debt. Id be furious if my children got into that position.

Hope things go alright for you mate, i cant do anything practical, but you have mine, and im sure a lot of other peoples support.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:58 PM
reply to post by 23432

Bankrupsy is an option, but here's the irony. You need £770 cash to file for a bankrupsy and still when you do they still take every "spare" penny you have for 1 to 3 years. So it is an option for most, but not for me as I will never be able to raise the initial £770 and even if I did, my parents stupidly took a loan for me and the judge would not allow me to continue paying them for this as the debt is not in my name but at the same time it would bankrupt my parents if I did stop to pay as they cannot afford it by any means.

So I am well and truely in the debt prison as you can see

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:07 PM
poverty in the uk suits the gov.
they are using welfare payments to blackmail and control people,today they announced that one of the councils in london will take away parts of obese peoples benifits if they dont exercise.
last year they blackmailed jobseekers into working at places like tescos for 3 months for their benifits.
it worked out well below the minimum wage.
it amounts to slave labour

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:08 PM
reply to post by michael1983l

Do you own your own home? If so, be very careful with bankrupsy, as you might have to give up your home. Check with your local council to see if they have debt help (a lot of them do now), they will negotiate on your behalf with all your creditors and hopefully you can come to suitable repayment agreements with them all.

I wish you the best of luck. I know how it feels.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:18 PM
Mm I don't know,I'm tempted to say it's your fault.That you've no one to blame but yourself,which is true essentially because while it's true about us getting very little education in real world finances at school the bottom line is if you sign up to an agreement it's absolutely in your own interest and your responsibility to know exactly what you're signing up to.

That being said I grew up in the late 70's and 80's through the last rounds of boom,bust and recession.

It was hard going,then Thatcher appeared which didnt help until the early mid 80's,who remembers the yuppies with their porsches n 'Loads of Money' !!!

Then the s**t hit the fan just as I left school in '88 to find there were no jobs around.It stayed that way till the mid 90's.Everybody credits Blair and New Labour for the boom but things had been picking up before they got in but definitely from the mid 90's to 2008 there was plenty of work to be had and they bent over backwards to give you credit.

It was mad,i saw many of my friends,relatives and collegues piling credit on debt on credit.

Cars on finance,mortgaged tn the eyeballs and still taking out bank loans.Everybody seemed to get by day to day with their flexible friend the credit card.

I've always been wary of debt,maybe leaving school when jobs were scarce and not secure put me off but I don't like debt round my neck.Don't haue a credit card,no loans and I pay rent.It's as well as I got laid off 2 weeks ago.First time I've been out of work in 15 years

I don't think it was an intention to get everybody in debt.Things were going well for a long time and everybody,even the government seemed to think it'd keep on going.Credit was easy,the more you owed the happier they were to lend.

It was the blind leading the blind though and now the debts need paid.It's easy when you could take credit to pay your debts but no ones doing credit now but the debts need paid anyway.

The government wants people out spending,that fuels demand,creates jobs which means more paye,NI,vat,fuel duty.It all ends up in Treasury where they want it.

They dont want us skint and in debt n didnt plan putting us there,for once their not

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:40 PM
reply to post by fastbob72

they are easier to control

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:45 PM
reply to post by fastbob72

I disagree, they get our money regardless. Insterad of us consuming, the money goes to the financial institutions and is paid out in bonuses to the rich bankers who then spunk it on sports cars and £43,000 bar tabs.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:55 PM
I'm in the UK as well and yep the options of bankruptcy are not easy or quick.
I fell into similar circumstances 12 years ago and realising that I faced a choice of not paying or giving most of my money to debt collectors and having a miserable 'existence' for X many years I decided to disappear.

I left my job and using my final wages cleared off to SE Asia to go travelling for 8 months.
On my return, refreshed and with a different perspective on 'real' life I re-built my life renting my home under an altered name (first name replaced with middle) and paid my council (property) tax as that 'person' - TPTB do not care which name you use as long as you pay your taxes.

After 10 years I popped my head back up on the electoral role and a flood of letters ensued some months later.
I phoned the debt collectors and informed them that I had no knowledge of the debts and reminded them that due to the time delay said debts were now 'statute barred' and as such would not be legally recoverable as long as I continued to assert that the debts were not mine (Key point there, if I were to accept the debts were mine then they would have a further 6 years to pursue)
Anyway, in the 12 years, I have not attempted to secure any credit, I pay/save for everything I buy, have a pre-pay smart phone, and to be honest, I feel more free than I ever have. I'm self employed, live a cash based lifestyle and enjoy the associated freedom away from employed 'deductions at source taxes'.

I may not have the newest flat screen TV or £200 per month loan for a new car but hey, I don't have any of the financial chains many of my friends have to cover the monthly payments for their shiny things.
I'm still pretty crap at budgeting money because I am as spontaneous with my leisure choices as I always have been, but I don't have to worry at the end of the month if I've blown my cash on a whim and a load of direct debits are due to go out of my account on the 28th or whatever.

If you want to return to a credit using position then paying it off over years or bankruptcy are your only options, but if you choose to escape the shackles it is possible to do it while enjoying a fulfilled life.
I legally escaped just over £30,000 and I've loved the excitement of pulling it off in the cat and mouse game that the unsecured debt recovery game really is

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:03 PM
reply to post by grainofsand

I think once I finish paying off my parents that I will go on the dole and claim bankrupsy. Sit it out for a year then back to work.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:19 PM

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by grainofsand

I think once I finish paying off my parents that I will go on the dole and claim bankrupsy. Sit it out for a year then back to work.

Thats definitely an option that would work, remember to tell the county court that a million and one things 'out of your control' caused the debt repayment problem, that way they will probably make the bankruptcy only 12 months.
Either way, good luck with it and don't be troubled by the veiled threats of debt collectors - if the debts are unsecured and not to the government they can only get you through the county court, something they never really want to do because the interest is usually then frozen and they'll probably be awarded less monthly than you could probably offer yourself.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:42 PM
I share the view that debt is a trap and bankers are gangsters.
But somehow, you spend the money for things you use or used.

Or not? So by not paying back the money you stole from someone that had to earn it before. Let alone how, it doesn´t matter. And reading L30.000 is a huge pile of money for example. You spent the money, you should pay it back at least. I know that interest rates can raise the dept to a mountain not climbable anymore, but nothing is for free and you were supposed to know what you sign.

Its like a bankrob, just the more sneaky and peacefully way if you disappear.

And if you talking like "going through extreme years". Just think about the time when you had the money lend to you and you spend it all for nothing (in most, but not all cases, but from I read here, the money was just spent)

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:57 PM

Originally posted by StareDad
So by not paying back the money you stole from someone that had to earn it before. Let alone how, it doesn´t matter. And reading L30.000 is a huge pile of money for example. You spent the money, you should pay it back at least.

Aha I was waiting for something like this, are we talking legislation or moral & ethical codes?
My £30,000 is legally 'statute barred' a specific position due to the failure of debt collection companies to contact me in 6 years, to use your term 'let alone how' the failure to contact me came about.
I broke no laws, as high powered banking corporations 'break no laws' while making billions in questionable moral ways.

Your term 'stole' is not applicable in this case, and English legislation would agree - I just played the rules as multi-national corporations do every day - result for the individual, and it would be immoral in my opinion to not make other individuals aware of their equally advantageous options available under UK statute law..

I would not use the same tactics against an individual or small business.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:03 PM
We don´t need to talk around the "let alone how".
Fact is, you lend money from someone, you should at least pay that amount back. I´m ignoring and blinding out interests right now. I´m not talking about legislative, I´m talking about moral.

Imagine you lend money to a bank and enough customers who lend money from the bank in turn, do it like you did. They were all not findable "legally".
The bank bankrupts and your money is gone.
How would you feel then?

Edit: I hope you don´t type yet but I wanted to add that it doesn´t matter if some or one or all do it like that. If its not right, it´s still not right. Regardless what others do.

What if I lend you the money? Would it change your situation? Would you work for x years on minimum just to pay your debt to me? I doubt it. Dept collectors I would hire would not find you "legally".
edit on 3-1-2013 by StareDad because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:17 PM
reply to post by StareDad

Then I guess we shall have to agree to disagree about the moral question.
I sleep comfortably in my bed at night and I'm sure you do as you espouse such stringent ideas of fiat money and the protection of our corporate financial system.
I broke no laws and state again that if I am dealing with an individual or small business then my moral choices would certainly have been different.
If you are so concerned about the poor suffering banks then by all means write to your MP/Congressman/whatever to change the laws which I employed in my avoidance of £30,000+ debt. I wish you the best of luck good sir.

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:25 PM
reply to post by grainofsand

No i´m not guarding fiat. Pleasem read all my posts again.
You justify your acting because "they play the same game"
Its childish in my eyes. When you took that loan, I suppose you were forced to do it.
If not, your fault. You got your part of the deal and then you quit. This is all I want to say about the moral thing.
Good night

posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:27 PM
reply to post by StareDad

The initial point of the post was not about me trying to avoid the debt, more about the concequences of being in debt and the benafits the populace being in debt has on the government and their agenda. Some of it is conjecture I agree but that is the nature of this website right. So no need to argue about morals of lending money from banks as that is not the subject of the OP.

new topics

top topics

<<   2 >>

log in