Obama uses 'autopen' to sign fiscal cliff - is this constitutional ??? , page 1


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Topic started on 3-1-2013 @ 03:32 PM by tinhattribunal
www.dailymail.co.uk...

# Obama is the only president in history to use autopen to sign bills into law
# Also used autopen to sign Patriot Act while in France in May 2011 and to sign legislation to fund the government while in Bali in November 2011
# Questions over whether using the gadget is unconstitutional
# He flew back to Hawaii after the House passed the fiscal cliff deal


It's a highly-anticipated deal that keeps his nation from teetering over the edge of the fiscal cliff - yet President Obama has not even shown up to sign the new bill into law.
Instead, Obama, who is vacationing in Hawaii, has signed the bill using an autopen, a mechanical device that copies his signature - allowing him to accept the deal after playing a round of golf.


what's up with that ?
it's bad enough that nobody read the thing before sending it to him, but now we see that his signature is a virtual one.

it's quite possible obama has not even read this bill.


Conservative critics have claimed that using the autopen for a president to write his signature is unconstitutional.
Article 1, Section 7 of the constitution states that if a bill is passed by both the House and Senate, it shall be presented to the president. 'If he approve(s) he shall sign it,' states the Constitution. There is nothing in the document that suggests a reasonable facsimile affixed by an appliance will do just as well.
But in 2005, the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel deemed the use of the autopen constitution, ruling that 'the President need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill to sign it'.
The autopen is often used by politicians and celebrities to duplicate signatures for letters. Obama is the first president to use the device to sign a bill into law, but Harry Truman, Thomas Jefferson and Gerald Ford are also known to have used the autopen.





reply posted on 3-1-2013 @ 03:37 PM by CaptGizmo
reply to post by tinhattribunal



Why is it that there is no other source on this matter out there that I can find? What would be the reason for him to use an auto pen for one or two signatures. This seems more like an advertising plug with a made up story to me.

Not by you, but by the dailymail.
edit on 1/3/2013 by CaptGizmo because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 3-1-2013 @ 03:41 PM by reeferman
reply to post by tinhattribunal



I'd say its unconstitutional to not physically sign a document as required by law...

but then again..

how many Presidents have actually signed something they have not read..

but did not know who even wrote it?

good find..

disgusting sign of the times for sure...



reply posted on 3-1-2013 @ 03:50 PM by DerekJR321
Originally posted by CaptGizmo
reply to
post by tinhattribunal



Why is it that there is no other source on this matter out there that I can find? What would be the reason for him to use an auto pen for one or two signatures. This seems more like an advertising plug with a made up story to me.

Not by you, but by the dailymail.
edit on 1/3/2013 by CaptGizmo because: (no reason given)


They use autopen when something needs to be signed in a timely manner. Tons of things have been signed using autopen. I believe in this instance, Obama used it to get the measure taken care of immediately. I think he was still in Hawaii or something (I could be wrong).

While other Presidents have used autopen... Obama is the FIRST to use Autopen to sign a bill into law. Quite interesting.


reply posted on 3-1-2013 @ 03:52 PM by CaptGizmo
I just found this from back in 2011 if anyone is interested regarding this issue. Apperently this has been going on for whie now.
abcnews.go.com...

I guess if it's legal than it's constitutional? I don't know...Wonder what they did before the advent of this technology.
Maybe power of attorney or something signed it for them when they were to far away to sign in person.
edit on 1/3/2013 by CaptGizmo because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 3-1-2013 @ 04:20 PM by Swills
reply to post by tinhattribunal



Obama and his silly gang of criminals have already abandoned the constitution and will continue to do so long after he's out of office. The next president will keep the ball rolling and so on and so forth. This Gov't does not abide by the constitution and by default should be null and void but that's easier said than done.
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