re Cooling of relations between U.S and U.K members

reply to post by forgetmenot


I don't want to turn this in to a gun debating thread, I honestly don't care either way, but your assertion that US culture doesn't impact on UK culture is wrong.

Gun culture --> impacts on TV --> we import a lot of American TV --> impacts our culture

Originally posted by Dispo
reply to post by forgetmenot

 

I don't want to turn this in to a gun debating thread, I honestly don't care either way, but your assertion that US culture doesn't impact on UK culture is wrong.

Gun culture --> impacts on TV --> we import a lot of American TV --> impacts our culture

And you're more than welcome to your opinion. But I stand by my assertion

You can always tune out that imported "culture".

There is another thread that was comparing gun violence in various countries. While reading it, I noticed the off-hand, dispassionate manner in which violence in Mexico was discussed. The violence there is many times what is in the US.

But several non-US posters dispensed with the statistics in a perfunctory tone, so they could focus on everything "wrong" with the United States.

If Americans seem too big for their britches sometimes, I think it's also true that others (Europeans) often encourage it, by focusing on the US so hyper-critically.

It would be more convincing, when you tell us that we are not the center of the universe, if you yourselves believed it a bit more.

One of the things that has amazed me about the English was the level of low-level violence in what Americans would call "ok neighborhoods." I stayed with friends in their apartment, where there were several bars or pubs on the same street. [Most US cities have laws restricting bars from operating in residential neighborhoods]. The noise of drunks shouting profanity and fighting in the street was unbelievable, and went on for hours. Likewise the police, who seemed as loud and unruly as the drunks they were trying to control. I wondered if I was particularly sensitive to the noise, but my hosts said no, everyone hates how loud it is, but what can be done? Different cultures accept different degrees and sorts of violence.

Originally posted by forgetmenot

Originally posted by roughycannon
I don't think this thread is necessarily as I think like me we don't have problems with Americans just the gun laws there...

With all due respect, you don't have any actual problems with gun control as you don't live here.

 

Hey op, I think that relations are just fine. Some people from the UK don't like our gun laws; and that's fine. There's no real problem, people are just reacting to a tragedy and some of them are bound to decide for themselves what the "real" problem is and how they would "fix" it. You have nothing to apologize for, even if you were hopping up and down screaming for gun control.

edit on 3-1-2013 by forgetmenot because: (no reason given)

[/quote

It really blew my brain the last "happening". Then I thought about it and questioned why it hurt so much that some kids got blown away far away in another place. I realised then that your country is part of who we are in the U.K now. Over here there is a huge American influence. I realised that I really did care.

If I visited the U.S I would accept it the way it is. It is like meeting a new partner in a relationship; we should not want to change the one we fall in love with. We have to take them as we find them.

A lot of people preach doom and gloom about the U.S. I don't think that. You are still a young country and I believe you are learning very fast and will continually evolve in your culture.

You have so many great writers who have brought to light the dawn of a very individual civilization.

edit on 3-1-2013 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by tovenar

There is another thread that was comparing gun violence in various countries. While reading it, I noticed the off-hand, dispassionate manner in which violence in Mexico was discussed. The violence there is many times what is in the US.

But several non-US posters dispensed with the statistics in a perfunctory tone, so they could focus on everything "wrong" with the United States.

If Americans seem too big for their britches sometimes, I think it's also true that others (Europeans) often encourage it, by focusing on the US so hyper-critically.

It would be more convincing, when you tell us that we are not the center of the universe, if you yourselves believed it a bit more.

One of the things that has amazed me about the English was the level of low-level violence in what Americans would call "ok neighborhoods." I stayed with friends in their apartment, where there were several bars or pubs on the same street. [Most US cities have laws restricting bars from operating in residential neighborhoods]. The noise of drunks shouting profanity and fighting in the street was unbelievable, and went on for hours. Likewise the police, who seemed as loud and unruly as the drunks they were trying to control. I wondered if I was particularly sensitive to the noise, but my hosts said no, everyone hates how loud it is, but what can be done? Different cultures accept different degrees and sorts of violence.

Thanks! I took on board all you said there. I can't disagree.

Yes, I saw that people were a bit too critical. I felt uncomfortable about it and did not contribute. I feel much better contributing with a post like this.

Your description about neighbourhood life is quite correct. It happens outside my window. I don't know why it happens. Is it some kind of Celtic identity expressed through the alcohol?

I am not like that. I spend my time being creative, being with nature, reading and learning.

ps. Lol, too big for your pants??? May be, but that is part of it, too. How could John Wayne have existed if you weren't? I love it.

reply to post by Revolution9



Dont ever feel like a leper Most of us big kids can still have friendships and great debates/discussions and not agree on every point. Ive noticed the bad manners out of both sides lately.. some outright hostile. Really dont let this get to you. I dont understand why we are sometimes attacked outright here for our so-called "gun culture", but I do like hearing opinions on it if some can manage to at the very least be civil. I DO see the problem with fellow Americans bashing the British and telling them to butt out. The truth is the "butt out" crowd was very much a minority of posters given how many Americans are on here.. and its still being spoken of as if every American went berzerk and told Brits they arent allowed to speak! Ive even been told on here that I can not call myself an American, I have to call myself a US American. LOL! Every board with international membership WILL have its fools from every nation. Thats life!

My personal observations... Im a little older, lived many places and even in London for several yrs due to my husband's employer. I found the people great. I see a lot of nastiness here that I never encountered there... so its definitely not the "British".. is the individual poster It was so funny because I am Blackfeet.. an american indian and my parents were born on rez. Im dark. I look a little different and back then I had very long black hair. Most assumed I was Eastern Indian or an "Arab" there.. which was pretty funny!! When they discovered I was American Indian it was a real interest to them. VERY politely curious, never treated me as I have at times been treated in my own country, and the more we spoke.. the more they got comfortable and told me what their concept of AI's were.. which obviously didnt offend me. We had some pretty hilarious discussions! Want to know the REALLY funny thing?? The majority of Americans hold the same misconceptions and we live right here. People really arent so alien just because an ocean separates us. Id encountered the most hospitable people in London... I miss them, but I sure as heck dont miss the fact that I didnt see the sun much while I was there!

In response to the title of this thread.. for so many of us.. the relationship between the US and the UK has never been an issue and PLEASE dont think that you are judged badly just because your location is U.K. Maybe it needs to be cooled between certain posters, but people can and will be complete asses regardless of what continent they live on!

Originally posted by MaMaa
Honestly I don't usually notice what country someone is from unless they state as much. Admittedly I don't exactly have the nicest of feelings for a lot of British folks as I find a lot of them to be brash, rude and lacking in manners.

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate but you put a carrot onto the end of a stick that I just could not ignore. The statement you have made actually works both ways and for what it is worth I believe it to be down to a difference in cultures. But however, I would much prefer someone to be brash and rude to me if that is what they think of me rather than what you get out in the states and yes I have been to the states. I find the American culture of "have a nice day" and "how are you" at every turn to be sickening, it is rare that those speaking this way to you actually have any genuine interest or belief in what they said at all and it appears to come out like a pre programmed statement that is said by everyone just as something you feel you need to say because that is how your society programmes you to do so. In other words it just makes you all seem false. I'd much rather like to know where I stand with an honest approach, but like I said that is all down to our differences in culture, the Brits are GREAT moaners so.........

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by Revolution9
Thank you. What a lovely description. Colorado! There's a place!

I have been feeling like a leper here just lately. May be that is my own fault a bit.

Yes, some people in Britain are quite course and rude. I think you are kind of more sensitive and gentle in your social interactions (mostly). I like that a lot. I can deal with that.

Well you are just about as special as every other living soul upon planet earth. I am just a small time music maker and artist. I am a bit of a crazy thinker and like thinking laterally very much.

Thank you. Peace to you, your partner, all your children and your Zoo, too

I'm sorry you feel like a leper. I think people just get too emotional about things and someone else having a different opinion often is no different than telling someone they are wrong in their fundamental beliefs. I once heard that man will give up everything all in the name of being 'right'. People don't really know how to communicate very well without insulting someone else's beliefs in general though.

Thank you for the compliment, I do try to be kind, sensitive and well.. gentle went away after having four boys. LOL

A crazy thinking music maker sounds like my kind!! We are a music family as well! Three play viola (hubby & two boys), one cello and the youngest is learning the guitar!

Peace to you as well!

Originally posted by Advantage
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Dont ever feel like a leper

Most of us big kids can still have friendships and great debates/discussions and not agree on every point. Ive noticed the bad manners out of both sides lately.. some outright hostile. Really dont let this get to you. I dont understand why we are sometimes attacked outright here for our so-called "gun culture", but I do like hearing opinions on it if some can manage to at the very least be civil. I DO see the problem with fellow Americans bashing the British and telling them to butt out. The truth is the "butt out" crowd was very much a minority of posters given how many Americans are on here.. and its still being spoken of as if every American went berzerk and told Brits they arent allowed to speak! Ive even been told on here that I can not call myself an American, I have to call myself a US American. LOL! Every board with international membership WILL have its fools from every nation. Thats life!

My personal observations... Im a little older, lived many places and even in London for several yrs due to my husband's employer. I found the people great. I see a lot of nastiness here that I never encountered there... so its definitely not the "British".. is the individual poster

It was so funny because I am Blackfeet.. an american indian and my parents were born on rez. Im dark. I look a little different and back then I had very long black hair. Most assumed I was Eastern Indian or an "Arab" there.. which was pretty funny!! When they discovered I was American Indian it was a real interest to them. VERY politely curious, never treated me as I have at times been treated in my own country, and the more we spoke.. the more they got comfortable and told me what their concept of AI's were.. which obviously didnt offend me. We had some pretty hilarious discussions! Want to know the REALLY funny thing?? The majority of Americans hold the same misconceptions and we live right here.

People really arent so alien just because an ocean separates us. Id encountered the most hospitable people in London... I miss them, but I sure as heck dont miss the fact that I didnt see the sun much while I was there!

In response to the title of this thread.. for so many of us.. the relationship between the US and the UK has never been an issue and PLEASE dont think that you are judged badly just because your location is U.K.

Maybe it needs to be cooled between certain posters, but people can and will be complete asses regardless of what continent they live on!

Wow! Very beautiful words there.

Dear Advantage. If you only knew how many tears I have cried for The Native American People. If you only knew the influence you have had on me. The great Shaman "Fool's Crow", books like "Touch The Earth" and Dee Brown's huge book "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" about the atrocities are just some of the work carved deeply upon my soul. I have a huge Wolf tattoo on my chest in memory of all the fallen warriors of your people.

When I read Dee Brown's history of all that happened I just kept crying every day for a good week. So many tears.

I have supported Survival International for many years who speak up for Indigenous people.

I am really deeply honoured to have you write here on my little thread.

For the modern white American settlers I have just as much respect. You know we did not do all that. Our generation can resolve the past if we are prepared to forgive.

A lot of my family on one side died before I was born and are forever unknown to me. I am half Jewish and they were wiped out and dispersed back in WW11.

Guess who came to the rescue back then? It was the U.S soldiers. Since the U.S and Israel have become inseperable allies. Wonderful I say and I respect it hugely.

I will keep up with what you write here. I just wish I had a real Native American friend! I'd be blessed wouldn't I! You know it!

reply to post by michael1983l

You make a real good point on that. That is something I can say about the English I've personally known over the years. At first, it's a real shock to American 'politeness' but once understood in context, I do prefer that approach. I've never felt I needed to fear being back stabbed, anyway. I might get it right between the eyes....but in my personal experience, the English will certainly give the courtesy of letting me see it coming and know there was a problem to begin with.

All to often, you're right. The first sign I see among American friends that a problem exists at all is after it's gotten so serious in their mind, it's already beyond easy repair.

Originally posted by michael1983l
I find the American culture of "have a nice day" and "how are you" at every turn to be sickening,.......

.... that is how your society programmes you to do so. In other words it just makes you all seem false. I'd much rather like to know where I stand with an honest approach, but like I said that is all down to our differences in culture, the Brits are GREAT moaners so.........

I grew up in the Southern U.S. Many Yankees (Americans who play ice-hockey) agree with your viewpoint precisely.

The tone of "have a nice day" is more genuine than you might give credit for being. I know that's hard to believe.

Refusal to greet each other that way (in the Ole South), is usually an indication that someone has murder on his mind. Seriously. When people won't play their assigned social roles, it is a signal that their hostility is more powerful than their manners, and you may be in for a difficult encounter with the locals.

I believe the pleasantries are a tradition that comes from rural and isolated areas, where you might not see your neighbors for weeks at a time, but you want to show that you aren't angry with them. Urban life is basically anonymous, while rural living means that you already have some connection to everyone you encounter, even if you cannot name the connection at first. So the pleasantries signal that you are not angry with the other person, you aren't here to sue them or move the boundary marker between your respective properties, etc.

reply to post by MaMaa


Yes Dear J! Me, too. It is very important to do that.

I am trying very hard now. I think we need to remember that real people are behind these screens and keyboards. We are expressing ourselves with earnestness and sincerity.

Thanks for making me feel better. You all surely have. I wil take a back seat for a few minutes now. Wearing myself out with typing. I will keep reading and will reply just shortly.

You all really cheered me up. I don't feel like a leper anymore.

I promise you that I really value you guys. If you did but know!

reply to post by Revolution9


If you ever make it to North Carolina, I'll put you up reaaaaallllll nice...

Spent a semester studying at Oxford and had a wonderful time. Everyone was so friendly and helpful, even earn they figured out I was American. I would dearly love to go back someday.

ATS is family, and like all family, sometimes we squabble. Then things cool down and we realize what utter snots we've been.

reply to post by Revolution9


If you ever make it to North Carolina, I'll put you up reaaaaallllll nice...

Spent a semester studying at Oxford and had a wonderful time. Everyone was so friendly and helpful, even earn they figured out I was American. I would dearly love to go back someday.

ATS is family, and like all family, sometimes we squabble. Then things cool down and we realize what utter snots we've been.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by MaMaa
Honestly I don't usually notice what country someone is from unless they state as much. Admittedly I don't exactly have the nicest of feelings for a lot of British folks as I find a lot of them to be brash, rude and lacking in manners.

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate but you put a carrot onto the end of a stick that I just could not ignore. The statement you have made actually works both ways and for what it is worth I believe it to be down to a difference in cultures. But however, I would much prefer someone to be brash and rude to me if that is what they think of me rather than what you get out in the states and yes I have been to the states. I find the American culture of "have a nice day" and "how are you" at every turn to be sickening, it is rare that those speaking this way to you actually have any genuine interest or belief in what they said at all and it appears to come out like a pre programmed statement that is said by everyone just as something you feel you need to say because that is how your society programmes you to do so. In other words it just makes you all seem false. I'd much rather like to know where I stand with an honest approach, but like I said that is all down to our differences in culture, the Brits are GREAT moaners so.........

Yes, but think about that from another perspective; what about the Englishman's "pleases" and "thankyous"? Just because they are said all the time does not mean they are somehow shallow and insincere. In the U.S the "Have a nice day" is just that. It's nice for me to hear that. But may be not our thing.

Not argueing with you here. Just offering an alternative perspective.

Originally posted by tovenar

Originally posted by michael1983l
I find the American culture of "have a nice day" and "how are you" at every turn to be sickening,.......

.... that is how your society programmes you to do so. In other words it just makes you all seem false. I'd much rather like to know where I stand with an honest approach, but like I said that is all down to our differences in culture, the Brits are GREAT moaners so.........

I grew up in the Southern U.S. Many Yankees (Americans who play ice-hockey) agree with your viewpoint precisely.

The tone of "have a nice day" is more genuine than you might give credit for being. I know that's hard to believe.

Refusal to greet each other that way (in the Ole South), is usually an indication that someone has murder on his mind. Seriously. When people won't play their assigned social roles, it is a signal that their hostility is more powerful than their manners, and you may be in for a difficult encounter with the locals.

I believe the pleasantries are a tradition that comes from rural and isolated areas, where you might not see your neighbors for weeks at a time, but you want to show that you aren't angry with them. Urban life is basically anonymous, while rural living means that you already have some connection to everyone you encounter, even if you cannot name the connection at first. So the pleasantries signal that you are not angry with the other person, you aren't here to sue them or move the boundary marker between your respective properties, etc.

From the South, I can assure you. When we tell ya to "have a good un," or call you "honey" or "sugar," we mean it. Truly.

Now, if we tell you "bless your heart," that negates everything previously said. It's how we say nasty things about others. "Poor Sally, you know she drinks all day long and she's doing drugs, too. I even heard she got arrested! Bless her little heart..."

reply to post by Revolution9


I can't really agree that your point is relevant, Please and Thank You is normally siad in return of something that has just been done for you or is indeed going to be done for you, in otherwords it makes it that little bit more sincere although I agree that not in every case. Whereas a brief flirtation of have a nice day when you leave a premises in America, I doubt that the person saying it in many if not most cases has a single ounce of care of how your day goes when you leave the store. If you don't care then why say it? Thats all I am saying.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by Revolution9

 

If you ever make it to North Carolina, I'll put you up reaaaaallllll nice...

Spent a semester studying at Oxford and had a wonderful time. Everyone was so friendly and helpful, even earn they figured out I was American. I would dearly love to go back someday.

ATS is family, and like all family, sometimes we squabble. Then things cool down and we realize what utter snots we've been.

I wish I could stay with someone like you. I am more an more thinking that is what I need for my soul. A good old trip to the U.S. I love all the Jack Kerouac, Woody Guthrie, road tripping stuff. I love writers like Hunter Thompson, Edgar Allen Poe, so so many. Yes, they all belong to you, U.S; from your culture!

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by MaMaa
Honestly I don't usually notice what country someone is from unless they state as much. Admittedly I don't exactly have the nicest of feelings for a lot of British folks as I find a lot of them to be brash, rude and lacking in manners.

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate but you put a carrot onto the end of a stick that I just could not ignore. The statement you have made actually works both ways and for what it is worth I believe it to be down to a difference in cultures. But however, I would much prefer someone to be brash and rude to me if that is what they think of me rather than what you get out in the states and yes I have been to the states. I find the American culture of "have a nice day" and "how are you" at every turn to be sickening, it is rare that those speaking this way to you actually have any genuine interest or belief in what they said at all and it appears to come out like a pre programmed statement that is said by everyone just as something you feel you need to say because that is how your society programmes you to do so. In other words it just makes you all seem false. I'd much rather like to know where I stand with an honest approach, but like I said that is all down to our differences in culture, the Brits are GREAT moaners so.........

Absolutely it can go both ways. Even within the US there is a huge difference in general friendliness, openness, ect.. Me and hubby were just discussing this a while back. So my family is from Texas and hubby's family is from North Dakota. Where I am from people are friendly, they say hello, they ask you how you are, they tell you to have a good day. Where my hubby is from they are much colder, less friendly, don't talk to anyone they don't know and generally act very distrusting. Of course this description is biased, I admit this because I am not from there. So in my hubby and his family's eyes my southern family's friendliness can be seen as fake and insincere. Now to me, I look at my hubby and his family as uncaring, rude, cold and distant. I don't trust people like that, yet I'm sure people like that don't trust someone they see as insincere and overly friendly.

It is very much a cultural thing, but it isn't just different from one country to the next. It is different from one state to the next here in the United States. But if I ask "how are you" it is because I genuinely care and want to know. When I tell someone to have a nice day, I honestly wish for you to have a nice day. I am open, honest AND friendly about it all. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it! *see that's me being friendly and genuinely goofy! *

Originally posted by Revolution9


Wow! Very beautiful words there.

Dear Advantage. If you only knew how many tears I have cried for The Native American People. If you only knew the influence you have had on me. The great Shaman "Fool's Crow", books like "Touch The Earth" and Dee Brown's huge book about the atrocities are just some of the work carved deeply upon my soul. I have a huge Wolf tattoo on my chest in memory of all the fallen warriors of your people.

When I read Dee Brown's history of all that happened I just kept crying every day for a good week. So many tears.

I have supported Survival International for many years who speak up for Indigenous people.

I am really deeply honoured to have you write here on my little thread.

For the modern white American settlers I have just as much respect. You know we did not do all that. Our generation can resolve the past if we are prepared to forgive.

A lot of my family on one side died before I was born and are forever unknown to me. I am half Jewish and they were wiped out and dispersed back in WW11.

Guess who came to the rescue back then? It was the U.S soldiers. Since the U.S and Israel have become inseperable allies. Wonderful I say and I respect it hugely.

I will keep up with what you write here. I just wish I had a real Native American friend! I'd be blessed wouldn't I! You know it!

Ahh see, many of us dont give a damn about the past and we are Americans.. that just happen to be native americans. TO be honest there is a large movement for reparations and all of this whining and such, but when you think about it.. and people SHOULD.. YOU or any American/Brit/Spanish/Catholic owe ME nothing. 1492 was a long time ago.. its 2013 and I have decided to let my ancestors fight it out. Im busy living my life. If we really thought about what our elders taught respective to each tribes belief.... you cant take away what we didnt own in the first place! If youre only borrowing a little earth during your lifetime and dont consider ownership.. who are we to ask for special concession and reparations.. and apologies?? Hell, Im married to a white guy and when I spend too much and he complains.. I claim its reparations ( HEHE!), but in reality, no one needs to feel bad about anything their ancestors did. Long story.. my dad was a huge anti BIA and Federal hater. I wasnt even allowed to take tribal scholarships for college. SO the whole desire for an apology was burnt from my mind long ago. LOL! And dont be honoured... though my ego loves it.. in reality we are all just folks much alike one another feeling our way in the dark and trying to figure things out.

AHAH! I did genealogy way back when and I bet I can help you with your lost Jewish side if you are interested... and with a little luck. The LDS being obnoxious and baptising the dead.. jews too.. and keeping the genealogical records made it so much easier for us to make some connections in family lines. I can send you some links and engines to search the LDS archives if youre interested. Family connections are so important.

Oh yeah, and Ill be your friend. It being ME, Im unsure how blessed youll be, but you have a new friend.