“no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.”

reply to post by INDOMITABLE

The Black Panthers owned guns at a time when crime from black people was little to nothing in most communities.

then i'd guess you never heard of the 1965 Watts Riots ?
if not, you may want to read some of King's own commentary about the situation.

link
King told reporters that the Watts riots were ‘‘the beginning of a stirring of those people in our society who have been by passed by the progress of the past decade’’ (King, 20 August 1965). Struggles in the North, King believed, were really about ‘‘dignity and work,’’ rather than rights, which had been the main goal of black activism in the South (King, 20 August 1965). During his discussions with local people, King met black residents who argued for armed insurrection, and others who claimed that ‘‘the only way we can ever get anybody to listen to us is to start a riot’’ (King, 19 August 1965).

i highlighted that specific phrase because what King did understand was 'rights' and Civil Rights became the formal concession that should have been rejected by all.
and believe it or not, his aversion to the proposed legislation was likely the primary reason he was killed.

i, along with MLKJr fully understand the 'class separation' construct designed by 'civil rights' vs 'equal rights' ... contrary to the PC of today, they are NOT the same thing.

IF MLKJr had truly succeeded in his quest, there would have been no such legislation necessary.
even he understood why the DoI reads ... we find these truths to be 'self-evident'.

equal right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness doesn't happen under the guise of 'civil rights', does it ?

ever wonder why after civil rights the black population suffered EXTREME increases in incarcerations ?? you can thank 'civil rights' for that.
[and please do notice that i didn't say legitimate incarcerations for a reason]

www.history.com...
His assassination led to an outpouring of anger among black Americans, as well as a period of national mourning that helped speed the way for an equal housing bill that would be the last significant legislative achievement of the civil rights era.

and on that note, how many AA "home owners" do we have today, vs 1975. (well, a little later, more like early 80s but i think you get the point)
today, we have many more 'renters' than home owners ... why is that, when the goal was exactly the opposite?

i think if you dare, you might want to spend some time reading over the Congressional Records of 1968 ... i have and there is some interesting insight in those 'meetings'.
here, i'll even share a direct link to the session i was reading last (not that it applies to this topic specifically but other dates do) ... 1968 Exec Sessios of the Senate FRC / Historical series i'm currently around pg900 or so and yes, i've read it from start to almost finish ... so should every American.

if you really care about your future, educate yourselves beyond Wiki.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Do you not think they could have understood adding a provision, such as "subject to periodic review"?

if they thought it necessary, they would have spelled it out as they did EVERYTHING else.

I'm trying too, but admit it's challenging

curious what you find 'challenging' ??

How many US'ians would you estimate have read these papers?

too few, i assure you.
but, that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't.

yes, the language is 'challenging', i'll certainly give ya that.
however, any dictionary at your side should make it bearable and quite comprehendable.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

try to remember, they are 'arguments'/debates ... they aren't supposed to make sense.
do ours ?

many of the 'arguments' throughout the series made me want to burn the page i was reading ... but again, that happens here, equally.

do not form an opinion, without considering all sides.
in a debate, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' ... there is only opinion which is eventually molded, supposedly for the benefit of all.

however, the best part of the series is the banter back and forth.
yes, there is plenty that most will disagree with ... however, many answers as to how this country was designed to be are in there.

reply to post by VaterOrlaag

There's no reason why people should be so afraid of each other that they must carry assault weapons at all times

do you have access to a 'fist' when you go for a walk ?
if so, then that's all the reason i need for an 'assault' weapon on my person.

in case none of you know this exists ... i'd highly recommend reading it.
now, ppl can shooo shoo and pooopoo the concept all they want ... the truth is out there for those who wish to learn.

www.hiddenmysteries.org...
"I believe that the Council on Foreign Relations and its ancillary elitist groups are indifferent to communism. They have no ideological anchors. IN THEIR PURSUIT OF A NEW WORLD ORDER, THEY ARE PREPARED TO DEAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE WITH A COMMUNIST STATE, A SOCIALIST STATE, a democratic state, a monarchy, an oligarchy - its all the same to them.

"THEIR GOAL IS TO impose a benign stability on the quarreling family of nations through merger and consolidation. THEY SEE THE ELIMINATION OF NATIONAL BOUNDARIES, THE SUPPRESSION OF RACIAL AND ETHNIC LOYALTIES, as the most expeditious avenue to world peace. They believe economic competition is the root cause of international tension.

"Perhaps if the council's vision of the future were realized, it would reduce wars, lessen poverty and bring about a more efficient utilization of the world's resources. To my mind, THIS WOULD INEVITABLY BE ACCOMPANIED BY A LOSS IN PERSONAL FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF THE RESTRAINTS THAT PROVOKED THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

"When we change presidents, it is understood to mean that the voters are ordering achange in national policy. Since 1945, three different Republicans have occupied the White House for 16 years, and four Democrats have held this most powerful post for 17 years. With the exception of the first seven years of the Eisenhower administration, there has been no appreciable change in foreign or domestic policy direction.

"THERE HAS BEEN A GREAT TURNOVER IN PERSONNEL. BUT NO CHANGE IN POLICY. Example: DURING THE NIXON YEARS, HENRY KISSINGER, A COUNCIL MEMBER AND NELSON ROCKEFELLER PROTEGE, WAS IN CHARGE OF FOREIGN POLICY. WHEN JIMMY CARTER WAS ELECTED, KISSINGER WAS REPLACED BY ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, A COUNCIL MEMBER AND DAVID ROCKEFELLER PROTEGE.

"STARTING IN THE '30S and continuing through World War II, our official attitude toward the Far East reflected the thinking of the Institute of Pacific Relations. Members of the institute were placed in important teaching positions. They dominated the Asian affairs section of the State Department. Their publications were standard reading material for the armed forces, in most American colleges, and were used in 1,300 public school systems.

"THE INSTITUTE OF PACIFIC RELATIONS WAS BEHIND THE DECISION TO CUT OFF AID TO CHIANG KAI-SHEK UNLESS HE EMBRACED THE COMMUNISTS, AND THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS IS THE PARENT RGANIZATION OF THE INSTITUTE OF PACIFIC RELATIONS.

"In 1962, Nelson Rockefeller, in a lecture at Harvard University on the interdependence of nations in the modern world, said: "And so the nation-state, standing alone, threatens in many ways to seem as anachronistic as the Greek city-state eventually became in ancient times."

"Everything he said was true. We are dependent on other nations for raw materials and for markets. It is necessary to have defense alliances with other nations in order to balance the military power of those who would destroy us.

"WHERE I DIFFER FROM Rockefeller is in the suggestion that to achieve this new federalism, THE UNITED STATES MUST SUBMERGE ITS NATIONAL IDENTITY AND SURRENDER SUBSTANTIAL MATTERS OF SOVEREIGNTY TO A NEW POLITICAL ORDER.

"The implications in Nelson Rockefeller's presentation have become concrete proposals advanced by David Rockefeller's newest international cabal, the Trilateral Commission.

- snip -

"It also suggested that it would be helpful to IMPOSE PRIOR RESTRICTIONS ON THE PRESS and to restructure the laws of libel to CHECK THE POWER OF THE PRESS.

"I've suffered as greatly from an abusive press as any man in public life, but I get an itchy, uncomfortable feeling at the base of my spine when someone suggest that government should control the news.

"THE ENTIRE TRILATERAL Commission approach is strictly economic. No recognition is given to the political condition. Total reliance is placed on materialism. The commission emphasizes the necessity of eliminating artificial barriers to world commerce, tariff, export duties, quota - an objective that I strongly support. What it proposes to substitute is an international economy managed and controlled by international monetary groups.

"No attempt has been made to explain why the people of the Western world enjoy economic abundance. FREEDOM - SPIRITUAL, POLITICAL, ECONOMIC - IS DENIED ANY IMPORTANCE IN THE TRILATERAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE NEXT CENTURY.

much more should you choose to read it.
debates at this point are akin to inviting the lion to dinner

and, all of the above is substantial reason to be armed and ready to defend yourself at any moment of any day ... as is the birthright of all animals in this kingdom.

notice where F.R.E.E. was located ?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by Honor93

 

Yes but you also have a better chance of not being wounded at all/
Its easier to defend yourself or run away from a knife or bat than it is a gun

the last person carrying a bat with intent to harm, was stripped of the bat by me and tackled by my man.
so, it's not like i'm shooting at every threat but when one presents itself as life-threatening, who are you or anyone else to restrict the tools available to me ??

sorry, i don't run very well anymore ... besides, i'm not obligated to run away.
i am obligated to defend myself ... with whatever means is available and if i use a rock, it's still an "assault weapon" quite capable of killing another human.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Do you not think they could have understood adding a provision, such as "subject to periodic review"?

The process for changing is called a Constitutional Convention.
The creating of laws to circumvent and/or change the meaning of a word is unlawful.
Any and All Amendments can be changed as there is a legal process to do so.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
I'm trying too, but admit it's challenging.

They are hard to read sometimes. I have read Networking Documents that had more excitement.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Just read the first one. Do you think that's typical 10 yr old reading material?

So, the Federalist Papers are exactly the easiest to read, But, anyone with a 8th grade reading skill set, should be able to read them. They are more difficult then the Constitution.



Or understandable by the average USian, even? How many US'ians would you estimate have read these papers?
They should be able to read them and have the comprehension needed to understand what each topic is speaking of.
How many??? Sadly, not enough these days. Maybe 10 percent.

reply to post by Honor93


More credit to ya

I understand now you guys will never give up your guns, so while you all have easy access to them for the POTENTIAL you may need them, live with the CERTAINTY that any pissed off school kid or psycho can also access them

Peace

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

thanks, i think ?

if i may, i suspect what you fail to accept or realize is that when we DID THIS regularly ...

live with the CERTAINTY that any pissed off school kid or psycho can also access them

we had LESS of everything ... less murders, less gun crime, less violent crime of all kinds ... then the gangs polluted the environment and the restrictions flowed like running water and now, we're here.

gun free zones don't help ... they should read "killing field ahead".
if the police, the IRS, the SSA, and a plethora of other un-necessary government agents weren't carrying 'assault weapons', perhaps we wouldn't carry ours as much, either.

however, they've been 'fighting' the gangs for 30yrs or more now ... obviously they need help ... who better than their fellow Americans ?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by INDOMITABLE

 

you're still mistaken, then and now.
your restricted, myopic view of this nation is what's wrong.
it's always been the yanks vs the confederates, why wouldn't it be?
this country WAS a Confederacy FIRST and FOREMOST.
perhaps if you understood the Articles of Confederation and their application, then maybe you'd understand why it still is yanks vs Confederates.
clearly, you don't or you wouldn't be spouting the nonsense you did.

Restricted and myopic?

As far as crime in the 50's and 60's being rampant, what? Most black people were still segregated then, they were still working class and did not live in ghettos as they exist today. At that time blacks DID NOT make up the majority of prison inmates, the tide changed I believe in the 70's. Did black commit crimes back then, yes. Did they commit the majority of the crimes then, No. Most black people went to churches or mosques and were law abiding. That was when the country was still religious and before manufacturing left the cities. Afterwards came poverty, crime, drugs, etc. etc

still don't know much about that history, do ya ?

yeah ok, if you believe it, then that's your problem, i'd suggest you make an effort to resolve it.

Where have you gotten your alternate history from? The print and news media? My views on both the black panthers and the black community at the comes from what I have been told by first hand witnesses and not what I have read or the media. Sorry, but I am more inclined to believe it when someone tells me of their experiences than when some outsiders writes a story and tries to piece together a foreign situation. Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

TX and CA are the most densely populated states of our Country (most ppl) ... the top 2 as a matter of fact. the NE doesn't even come close when you slap 10 states together. (excluding NY)
[now, if you're referring to 'densely' as in 'living on top of one another, yes there are a few states that have 'density' issues within them ... even here in FL]
you can be as disrespectful as you desire, it has no impact on me.
your youth is exemplary of your lack of understanding, that is no surprise.
however, your insistance that your lack of understanding creates some viable basis for argument is laughable.
and, if you have a 'good view' of NY, then you aren't even close to a densely populated area but you keep thinkin it ... that'll get ya far in life.

I'm not going to insult your intelligence by defining dense (no pun intended). That is what I meant by densely populated. I think it will get me far in life.

I do not respond with dry humor and weak jabs at your intelligence, all the while not understanding a thing you said. Try to do the same. I'll make a few more points, just in case you've gotten this far, although doubtful

so, now you claim someone else wrote your words ???
hmmmmm, interesting.
ooooooh, 7 whole years where, Virginia, NC or Maryland ?
if you think this last voting session was a "large turnout", you really have some weak impressions of the community as a whole.
not sure why you assume i'm 'country folk' unless you deem Tampa some kind of backwoods country

i was raised in the back-country of PA, but i'm certainly not foolish enough to live there today.

You said you lived in the deep south, I don't think anyone would consider Tampa the deep south. I mean it has an international airport. That right there disqualifies it.

gun owners, (of all colors) have steadily been on the rise all the days of my life ... see any stats post 1950. only since 2001 have i witnessed such a rapid increase all due to the ramblings of one man, Obama ... the best salesman the civilian weapons industry has ever had.
your FB feed may or may not be legitimate.
the ppl feeding your feed may or may not be black ... how many of them do you know personally?
i can tell you, in my neighborhood (in which i am the 'token' minority) you'd be laughed off the block.
quite a few gun owners, USED TO BE in favor of gun control ... even they are becoming a rare breed. about the only ones currently in favor of gun control have been victims of gun violence ... so, what does that tell ya ?
(it tells me, safety is a greater concern, not 'control')

I personally know everyone on my facebook feed.

What you have in your community is a SILENT "majority". lol

Today I happened to turn on the radio as a caller called in and stated how sick these gun owners are for threatening the lives of the news people who released the names of the registered gun owners. I haven't been keeping up with the story, but the caller said that some gun owners released the locations of those people's children's schools. He said, this is how sick these gun owners are that they would want to hurt children, on and on and on.

Every call after that was about how to regulate the guns, some people were offering suggestions and comments about gun owners, etc. etc. Most of the people in my circle would agree, some wouldn't care, few would disagree. One thing that I have noticed is that everything Obama says is gold. To go against him is sure to get you into a heated argument. A few people are slowly waking up, but now that he has put this gun issue on the table many will loudly and vocally support whatever he says.

The point I have been trying to make since my very first post is that this is now the prevailing belief of many black people(and not just in NY) and at a time in the past it was different. That is all.

I will definitely read some of the document you suggested, although I have no idea what the gulf of tonkin and Desoto have to do with anything.

btw the Watts Riots and others during the 60's were one time events that irrevocably changed the landscape of those communities. It was not the norm. A riot is not evidence that crime was previously "rampant", especially given the circumstances that sparked those riots.

reply to post by INDOMITABLE

thank you for continuing our conversation

Restricted and myopic?

based solely on your posts in this thread, yes.

alternate history ??
so now personal experience is 'alternate history' ??
how and when did that happen

densely populated as you propose is then an attribute that can be equally applied to all states

hmmmm, short of Key West, there isn't a whole lot more 'deep south' than here

so, are you ready to put your paintbrush away yet or what ?

good, then you might want to consider who your friends are and where such thoughts may lead you.

What you have in your community is a SILENT "majority".

not sure how you figure that but would you care to explain ?

and that's what you get for entertainment these days ... doesn't that make you all warm and fuzzy inside ? (/sarcasm)

meh, ppl talk ... they always have, they always will.
it is those who act on such talk that should concern you ... the rest is nothing more than a preacher and his pulpit.

that this is now the prevailing belief of many black people(and not just in NY) and at a time in the past it was different. That is all.

and that is exactly why i responded.
i still disagree and this region (black population and all) would as well.

they don't concern this topic at all ... however, the 1100 pgs or so aren't focused on them either

the only reason i shared them is to make ppl aware that they already have the control you (and your friends) seem to think is necessary. their own unwillingness to exercise it is the problem.

one time events ???
surely you jest ?

how many more do i need to link before you'll open your eyes ?
i'm sure i can find a dozen or so.

i never said the riots represented the rampant crime that led up to them ... but, you cannot discount them as some anomaly.
that was a clear example of cause and effect.

i understand very few AA ppl would agree that 'civil rights' were an un-necessary concession and that's the point.

crime has been with us since day 1 ... some days were worse than others but no single group of ppl (at any point in time) can be fingered as some imaginary 'cause' ... but the government can

reply to post by INDOMITABLE

if you are exploring some of the material i shared ... you might want to add these to the list.

earlier i asked this question ... "notice where F.R.E.E. was located ?"
i asked that question for a very specific reason (thread related) but it likely went over the heads of many ... so, please don't forget WACO and why it happened.
www.serendipity.li...

and what some of our many distinguished leaders have said along the way, like this one.

rumormillnews.com...
Editor's note: Navy Captain Gunther Russbacher was a 29 year veteran of the United States Intelligence Community, (Office of Naval Intelligence, attached to the Central Intelligence Agency). During all of that time he has operated as a deep black covert operative. In 1980 Captain Russbacher flew then vice-presidential candidate George Bush to a secret meeting near Paris in what has become known as "The October Surprise" scandal.

i've often wondered how many, if any, even recognize the correlation between the bold phrase and the speech of today

ppl can deny the obvious all they want ... like i said, it's a long, drawn out story, with many peaks and valleys, just like our country. however, in this story, you cannot sit atop a peak and view the valley as clear as some would like to think.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by INDOMITABLE

 

if you are exploring some of the material i shared ... you might want to add these to the list.

earlier i asked this question ... "notice where F.R.E.E. was located ?"
i asked that question for a very specific reason (thread related) but it likely went over the heads of many ... so, please don't forget WACO and why it happened.
www.serendipity.li...

and what some of our many distinguished leaders have said along the way, like this one.

rumormillnews.com...
Editor's note: Navy Captain Gunther Russbacher was a 29 year veteran of the United States Intelligence Community, (Office of Naval Intelligence, attached to the Central Intelligence Agency). During all of that time he has operated as a deep black covert operative. In 1980 Captain Russbacher flew then vice-presidential candidate George Bush to a secret meeting near Paris in what has become known as "The October Surprise" scandal.

i've often wondered how many, if any, even recognize the correlation between the bold phrase and the speech of today

ppl can deny the obvious all they want ... like i said, it's a long, drawn out story, with many peaks and valleys, just like our country. however, in this story, you cannot sit atop a peak and view the valley as clear as some would like to think.

What power do you think people my age have?

I read the article on Waco. Why did Waco happen? I am still trying to figure it out. I read once that there was an airstrip behind the property there and David Koresh saw that the gov't was smuggling drugs, which prompted the sudden attack on his property.

I didn't know they were planning to release the paper money with the strip inside back in 1992. I believe the Federal Reserve is the sole reason America is in this mess. That includes everything from the economy to education to the rearing of children. Over the last 100 years they have slowly destroyed this country economically and we have allowed them to.

If the government owes the Federal Reserve and the government can't pay, the Federal Reserve can just "foreclose" on gov't collateral, whatever that may be. Being in debt has never gotten anyone anywhere and it has been to our detriment these 100 years.

reply to post by INDOMITABLE

what does age have to do with it ?
you're reading and writing aren't you ?
then, the only thing stopping you is you.

if you understand the Fed and how it contributes, what does your age have to do with it ?
as for your statement about the Fed, i couldn't agree more.
glad to read that you understand as well

I didn't know they were planning to release the paper money with the strip inside back in 1992

i kinda figured that.
did you know they'd been sitting on it since around 1980 ?
in case i didn't share it before, here's another interesting piece.
www.hiddenmysteries.org...

what can you do at your 'tender' age ??
share and teach what you've learned.
that you can do everywhere.
use the imagination within to discover or develop new ways to expose them and eventually dismiss them.

bottom line, only you can determine what power you do have.

Waco was a multi-faceted psy-op and if that isn't obvious, read more.
ps ... without crossing the line of libel, when you contemplate Waco and the topic of this thread, consider the Westboro Baptist bunch of today. why was Waco decimated when the WBC can't even be kept off of private grounds ? what was sooooo threatening about that group that doesn't apply to WBC ??
if you can make sense out of it, please share.