Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


Socialism/Communism does not work on a big scale. Look at China, they use capitalism to their advantage and use socialism to control their population. Probably took some notes for the USA

Originally posted by NysgjerrigDame
I agree. Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup. I believe that unless you've read the Communist Manifesot, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, State and Revolution: by Lenin, the Foundations of Leninism, The New Class: Djilas, Combat Liberalism (communists detest liberalism), I do not believe that you have right to talk about it. There are many more works that ought to be read on the matter. Most of ATS believes the lies of the West, but if any, those of you whom have truly studied the communist works, what is your argument against it?

edit on 2-1-2013 by NysgjerrigDame because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2013 by NysgjerrigDame because: (no reason given)

Communism is a nice fairy tale.
Human greed and laziness will kill true communism every time.

Originally posted by NysgjerrigDame
I wish to explain to everybody whom has replied to this thread. Read the title. It states, "Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?". Therefore, you people with no knowledge of what communism are not required to reply. Thank you.

the answer to your question is quite simple really,

They are against it because for all their lives, they have had anti-communist rhetoric rammed down their throats by their own "State" which incidentally has turned them all into wage slaves whose only purpose in life is to labour and hand over their wealth to make a very few people at the top of the capitalist pyramid filthy rich and extremely powerful.

Please do not be offended as they really do not know any better, as mostly, their intelligence is "static" and they quite often lack the ability of critical thought - this is also by design of their mother State.

PEACE,
RK

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


I have an idea. Try living in a communist country for a while, and you'll know just how well it works in the real world instead of on paper. Choose any one you want. This is my 3rd month living in Vietnam... I'm not too seeing anything that looks good.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

those of you whom have truly studied the communist works, what is your argument against it?

Because there were NEVER any people willing to die in the prcoess of migrating INTO a communist nation, but there are thousands who have died trying to get out of them. Also, history shows that millions of people are murdered every time communisim takes hold of a nation. The USSR broke up, and now we see Russians trying to warn America away from socialism/communism.

My wife came from a communist nation; and, she is very proud of her US citizenship and all of the freedoms that brings into her life. She can speak at length on the SEVERE pitfalls of living in a communist country.

I'd venture a guess that YOU are the one who is not well read on the subject.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


obviously you dont understand human nature.

i suppose you mistakenly project your ' good willing female heart ' onto society.

Please wake up.

reply to post by Rigel Kent

They are against it because for all their lives, they have had anti-communist rhetoric rammed down their throats by their own "State" which incidentally has turned them all into wage slaves ...

See my reply, just above.

I have NEVER seen anyone willing to die to get INTO a communist nation; however, many thousands have died trying to get out of them. You need to read some history.

The problem with communism is that people are greedy for power. I had this one conversation with a person that communism will actually work once AI tech comes to play. Artificially intelligent super computers that are branched off into systems. It would be too perfect. You may say I'm crazy, I'm just looking towards the future where there might be stability for once.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

Please quote where in the works enslavement of the people is mentioned.

It isn't "mentioned". It is just the way it actually works in practice. To advertise the fact would cause to many to reject the idea. It is best to surprise everyone once they are in the steel trap.

Do you know of anyone who has risked death trying to get into a communist nation? There are many thousands who have risked death trying to get out of them. I suspect that those people were far more knowledgable about life in a communist nation than you.

Please go live in Cambodia of Cuba for a few years, and then report back on your findings.

Do you know that Putin has warned the US to avoid socialism and communism. He was head of the KGB. I suspect he knows something you don't.

Originally posted by closerseemsfurther
reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

 

I have an idea. Try living in a communist country for a while, and you'll know just how well it works in the real world instead of on paper. Choose any one you want. This is my 3rd month living in Vietnam... I'm not too seeing anything that looks good.

Take a trip out to see the VC tunnel system at Chu Lai, You may find that quite good,
Take a fast ferry from HCM to Vung Tao and witness first hand the beauty of the Mekong Delta waterways,
Just gaze out of the window at those Ao Dai wearing babes on their motorcycles.
If you cannot enjoy yourself in Ho Chi Mihn I feel for you. I will swap places with you tomorrow
Make the best of what you have mate, for you will surely miss it when its gone.

PEACE,
RK

reply to post by cconn487

Trying to make it work sounds a lot better than dismissing the viability of it ever working while at the same time supporting Democracy which has been warped from its original intention to a shadow of its true potential.

So how many millions of people need to pay the ultimate price for that experiment before declaring it a crappy idea? Do you even have a clue regarding how many people died when these folks came to power?: Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pol Pot, etc.

Many have tried to establish that false Utopia of communism by spilling a lot of blood. In the end, they give it up. In the interem, thousands of people risk their lives trying to escape Candy Land.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

So, I cannot back up my own thread due to the fact that you have not read the very works...

Try quoting from those works or conduct a two-sided conversation using that well-spring of knowledge you claim to have. Maybe there are those who wonder if you actually understand what you have read or can relate your reference material to actual attempts at establishing a communist "Utopia".

Explain why you think all of the other attempts failed and how their efforts diverged from the "Holy Graile".

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


My wife is from the town of Suwalki in northeastern Poland. During communism the city was the hub of the area and had many factories. People came from the surrounding villages to work, and everyone had a job. Then the system changed and the factories all closed, because with no state to prop them up, there was no need for an unprofitable factory. Many people look back and say things were better then, but it all was a lie.

The stories of mining bauxite ore, making aluminum and burrying the aluminum again are true. Such unprofitable enterprisesmay provide employment but they are a drain on the state, and that eventually catches up and causes consequences. Capitalism can be harsh, but isn't a truly productive society better than the illusion of one? I understand that no one has ever reached "true" communism, but the truth is that such a system cannot exist without relying on such falsehoods.

. For example, Russian designed and built machinery was extremely and famously inefficient and unreliable. My father works for a company which owns a railroad here in Poland. They replaced 2.5 Russian designed locomotives with 1 rebuilt American design from the 70s. It uses less fuel and has a greater availability and requires less man hours of maintenance. But in communist times this did not matter because an inefficient unreliable locomotive would require greater numbers, keeping the factory busy and would require more mechanics because there are more trash locos which constantly break down. You see, it kept people busy, there was no need to make something better and in fact the incentive was in lowering the quality in order to create false economies to provide more jobs.

This is why communism did not and never will work. And please don't pretend I don't understand and give me some bs reply like you did before about how Poland was not communist. For the purpose of this argument, they were close enough. The people owning the land and means of production would not have changed anything in this case. That you discount what we who cite examples say based on this stinks of arrogant classroom philosophy. The whole point of communism is how it works or doesn't work in practice so drop the elitist "have you read what I have read" attitude and step into the real world to try and fail to prove your point.

reply to post by woodwardjnr

No we live in a Crypto-corporacy.Unless you are still sleeping.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

Actually it worked in Spain before Franco's coup. Care to explain how it did't work?

The coup would not have been successful if The People wanted to live under communism. All governments rule with the consent of the governed. All governments can be thrown off when The People desire change. The example in Spain merely shows that the Spanish people "had enough" only after two years.

reply to post by steppenwolf86


I agree with you my friend. I think you mistook me for some one else who was saying that no communism ever existed.


They say this since they dont want to admit to the irrefutable failures. THEY are ignorant of that aspect of communism. My family suffered in 2 countries thanks to communists. I dont like the idea one bit.

reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar


exactly. The republic lost support after the first year when it did NOTHING different for the average peasant working the land. They just wanted to pay him in some form of subsidy and keep him a peasant.

They were elected,or rather they stole the elections, which provoked the civil war since it was a blatant theft. The people demanded a land reform, which they NEVER even considered, even though it was a pivotal point to their whole platform.

They just wanted the keys to the public treasury is all. They were kicked out BY the people.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Sorry bout that, I hit reply to you accidently, I meant to reply to Anok or the OP. I have enjoyed reading your posts and got fed up with real world scenarios being swept under the rug and ignored by those who have their heads stuck in the classroom.

Originally posted by Mrgone
Communism only works in minimal populations.

Commune. Ism.

You reach a max threshold around 50 people. Then it's a dictatorship.

I think your max 50 figure could be enlarged quite a bit but you have a point. Communism works best in city-state situations. In fact, the same can be said about capitalism which is why the US is not functional at a federal level. The USSR collapsed not because it was specifically a communist government but it collapsed because it was a centralized communist government that took up nearly half of Eurasia.

The only think that works over a large geographical area is a simple bill of rights (or constitution) that is enforced by common interest. Everything else (whether through capitalism, communism, or whatever) should be done at a local level. This is why those Scandinavian nations do so well as socialist utopias. They are localized.

reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar


Many thousands have died fleeing many countries (not just communist countries) usually as a result of wars, persecution and famine, I also note that upto 3 million or so Americans are currently expatriating themselves from the USA every year,

www.usnews.com...

I have just finished reading "The secret teachings of all ages"
Right now I am reading "The megalithic culture of Indonesia"
Any particular history books you can recommend?

PEACE,
RK