Why fanatics can't see the absurdities in their beliefs.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Jordan River


Then if you believe that they are possible, you also believe in the "possiblity" of a heaven (other dimension). So you are not so atheist as you try to act like

What you can do for yourself is accept peoples belief other than yourself and stop acting like a grumpy old man

How can living, fleshy creatures living on another planet in this dimension possibly offer evidence of a fictional place in another dimension?

Here's a real eye opener for you. Go back and read all the posts and see who's being grumpy. Whenever anyone offers an opposing view to the belief in a mystical magical being, it's the believers that go bonkers.

So your saying that another dimension cannot host angels or demons, double standard

So one minute you accept an idea of dimensional aliens but you cannot accept heaven or demons and blah blah blah

dont be a hypocrite i know what you said

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Observationalist
reply to post by jiggerj

 

We are all conditioned by our repetitive experiences. I play golf well because I have done so with my father since I was a kid. I'm also a Christian because I was raised in a Christian home. I also should be a republican from my experience but I have re evaluated my stance (independent).

I'm still a Christian but not the brainwashed kind I was afraid I was becoming. I made a conscious effort to dig in to find out what the bible was about, and was satisfied with my findings.

I'm still a golfer and struggle to find the perfect swing, but I'm not fanatical about it unlike some who learned later than I.

That's just it, a brainwashed person is the last to know he/she is brainwashed. When you speak of golf and politics, they are based on reality. There are choices to be made in both fields, so the ability to differentiate between logical and illogical is hardwired into those neurons that were created specifically for those subjects. You would never use a putter as a driver on a 400 yard fairway. But, you would accept that a man's death can somehow forgive sins. Death and the forgiveness of sins do not go together - there is no connection between them, but you won't be able to work this out with your religious neurons.

However, if a child is taught that magic exists within the bible (gods, devils, dead people rising, contradictions...), then the neurons created specifically for religious beliefs will not develop the ability to discern what is logical as opposed to what isn't.

Here's an example of an inconsistency int he bible that you will probably create an excuse for, instead of just saying, "You're right, that doesn't make sense." Every believer in the bible is totally convinced that their god is all-knowing. By 'all-knowing' we mean he can see the past, present, future, and he can even see every thought in everyone's mind. ALL-KNOWING. Yet, the bible tells us that God said to Abraham as he was about to sacrifice his son, "Now I know that you fear me."

That remark clearly implies that this god didn't know that Abraham feared him before this. But the biblical god SHOULD HAVE known this even before Abraham was born, even before he created the earth.

Is this a flaw, or will you make up an excuse for it.

edit on 1/3/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

I want to jump back in with some personal experiences.
You can choose to learn anything but its what motivates that learning into belief, into action. I can learn to golf but is it logical to believe I can be the best player of all time, is that my motivation, or do I learn it because my dad wanted me to, and I want or please my dad. At some point I get tired of pleasing my dad and play for my own reasons.

If all I ever see is my father defending Republican ideas and listening to talk radio, I'm presented a biased view of politics. When I turned 18 I voted Republican because its all I knew. As I grew up and learned more about the political process and observed the failings of both parties I made my own political stance.

When presented with the idea of a God who can forgive sins, once again in the early stages I'm subject to my fathers beliefs. At some point I separate from my fathers faith and establish my own belief system. I'm responsible for examining the evidence.

The determining factor if I continue in my fathers belief hinges on what I observed him do with his. Did he live it out did I observe unconditional love did I see forgiveness played out consistently, kindness self control and justice. If I saw abuse and abandonment, or contradictions in his actions then I would be incline to reject his belief.

When parents go to church they drop their kids off in Sunday school. A Sunday school teacher is not as influential as a parent or admired authority figure. I learned jack in Sunday school, and I honestly don't believe the church should play such a big roll in teaching kids about faith in God. It is the parents responsibility not the church to educate kids about their faith.

Just like its no the responsibility of the church to grow the kids faith, Its not the responsibility of the pastor to grow the parents faith. Its the individual who have to work out their faith. There are many who grew up with a shallow understanding of God and now rely on religious figures to tell them it will be okay, just stay away from the big bad world. That's not the model that Jesus presented, not the way he taught his disciples. I know you think the Bible is a bunch of fairy tales so I will stop there.

I'm speaking from my experience in the following Christian denomination, Baptist and Assembly of God.

Jiggers logic is full of holes and backed by raw emotion rather than contemplation. I gave him a few questions that made him stumble and along the lines he tried to deflect by showing how "other christians" reacted to his post instead of being straight with our discussion

reply to post by Jordan River

If you look at his signature, that is his justification for his insincerity.

I like the points you made.

It's frustrating, but we do our part and God does His. Plus you never know who else might be reading your words, there might be somone who might actually be willing to learn something out there.