Have you ever forgiven someone? If so, who needs God to forgive a second time?

Have you ever forgiven someone? If so, who needs God to forgive a second time?

It is to the one sinned against to have the first right of forgiving when forgiving is possible. That would be most sins and crimes save murder.

I have had the pleasure to forgive on a few occasions. I will assume here that you have also forgiven someone at some point in your life. I have had that pleasure after the pain and hope you have as well. I have stepped up to ask for forgiveness as well after sinning against someone and am thankful that people can and do forgive. This benefit I also hope you have enjoyed.

Our consciousness and ego are what we use to judge what should be forgiven. If we lose that ability to judge or if it is usurped, damage is done to our consciousness and ego. It would negate intelligent use of our freedom of choice. It would negate our free will and deny us closure.

The Government has taken our freedom of the body from us with various restrictions. Everything from what we consume to our right to die with dignity. God has taken our freedom of choice after death from us with his judgement. Jesus has taken our freedom to face our accuser from us by saying --- only through me --- as our only judge.

These usurping of your free will to forgive means that you could never get closure from offence and hurt.
That would make Jesus as big of a disgrace as his father in ignoring our free willed choices. People judge constantly. We cannot help but to do so. To have our judgements usurped or ignored shows a flaw in the justice system you follow, be it secular or religious.

The God of the Jews who evolved to be the Christian God had a different view of forgiveness than Jesus had even though Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi. Jesus as God would be from the Christian perspective. Not the Jewish one that has the majority of Jews as never accepting Jesus as their messiah. The claims to judging and Jesus’ status, or not, --- as a messiah--- needs not be discussed in this O P.

“Jewish belief states that G-d doesn't forgive our sins against others until we ask and receive forgiveness directly from the person we wronged.”

“In Judaism, the acts of repentance and forgiveness are inextricably linked, and we must never let our anger toward others cause us to lose sight of self-reflection and cleansing.”

www.thepowerofforgiveness.com...

Did Christianity and their version of the Jewish God usurp your power and benefits of forgiving?
Does that negate your free will, and your right to forgive?

Regards
DL

having a god forgive you was once just a new way to get bad guys to buy religion.
if you're good you have paradise, if you're bad you have hell but if you want forgiveness you must come to church.
religion = most effective marketing known to man.

Forgiveness isn't for the person who wronged you, but for yourself.

When you truly forgive someone, you give yourself permission to let things go. It's rewarding to lose that burden.

reply to post by Greatest I am

I my self have forgiven on more than one occasion

I have also asked for forgiveness from others i have wronged

I found asking the harder

As for the god thing i do not believe in such a thing

So i do not feel qualified to comment.

what difference should all this make to you? You apear to not beleive in God.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Have you ever forgiven someone? If so, who needs God to forgive a second time?

It is to the one sinned against to have the first right of forgiving when forgiving is possible. That would be most sins and crimes save murder.

I have had the pleasure to forgive on a few occasions. I will assume here that you have also forgiven someone at some point in your life. I have had that pleasure after the pain and hope you have as well. I have stepped up to ask for forgiveness as well after sinning against someone and am thankful that people can and do forgive. This benefit I also hope you have enjoyed.

Our consciousness and ego are what we use to judge what should be forgiven. If we lose that ability to judge or if it is usurped, damage is done to our consciousness and ego. It would negate intelligent use of our freedom of choice. It would negate our free will and deny us closure.

The Government has taken our freedom of the body from us with various restrictions. Everything from what we consume to our right to die with dignity. God has taken our freedom of choice after death from us with his judgement. Jesus has taken our freedom to face our accuser from us by saying --- only through me --- as our only judge.

These usurping of your free will to forgive means that you could never get closure from offence and hurt.
That would make Jesus as big of a disgrace as his father in ignoring our free willed choices. People judge constantly. We cannot help but to do so. To have our judgements usurped or ignored shows a flaw in the justice system you follow, be it secular or religious.

The God of the Jews who evolved to be the Christian God had a different view of forgiveness than Jesus had even though Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi. Jesus as God would be from the Christian perspective. Not the Jewish one that has the majority of Jews as never accepting Jesus as their messiah. The claims to judging and Jesus’ status, or not, --- as a messiah--- needs not be discussed in this O P.

“Jewish belief states that G-d doesn't forgive our sins against others until we ask and receive forgiveness directly from the person we wronged.”

“In Judaism, the acts of repentance and forgiveness are inextricably linked, and we must never let our anger toward others cause us to lose sight of self-reflection and cleansing.”

www.thepowerofforgiveness.com...

Did Christianity and their version of the Jewish God usurp your power and benefits of forgiving?
Does that negate your free will, and your right to forgive?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by listerofsmeg
having a god forgive you was once just a new way to get bad guys to buy religion.
if you're good you have paradise, if you're bad you have hell but if you want forgiveness you must come to church.
religion = most effective marketing known to man.

Yes and drop your coin in the basket. Nice to be able to buy an indulgence and forgiveness while ignoring the victim.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


There is no need to forgive what you haven't condemned in the first place. If someone does harm to you - it's done. If you harmed another - it's done. If it continues carelessly, then there was never any repentance. Forgiveness is looking back to the past, Accepting is being here now.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Forgiveness isn't for the person who wronged you, but for yourself.

When you truly forgive someone, you give yourself permission to let things go. It's rewarding to lose that burden.

No argument but it goes both ways. The perpetrator, which is all of us at some point in time, will also be given that reward if the victim is a good person and cares about people.

Have you never sought forgiveness and enjoyed getting it?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I my self have forgiven on more than one occasion

I have also asked for forgiveness from others i have wronged

I found asking the harder

As for the god thing i do not believe in such a thing

So i do not feel qualified to comment.

Your non-belief allows for a more honest reply so I think you are well qualified.

I agree that stepping up is mentally harder than being the victim.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by guitarplayer

what difference should all this make to you? You apear to not beleive in God.
]

I am not an atheist. I am an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian.

The Godhead I know just has a better moral position and does not believe in human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty the way the Christians and their God does.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

There is no need to forgive what you haven't condemned in the first place. If someone does harm to you - it's done. If you harmed another - it's done. If it continues carelessly, then there was never any repentance. Forgiveness is looking back to the past, Accepting is being here now.

Your not condemning something does not mean that the perpetrator has not repented from what he though was evil or sin and to not forgive him is adding harm to him. If you would deny him, then that is evil regardless of what you think of his sin or non-sin.

Both benefit from repentance and forgiveness and to not forgive will not give you both the benefits of it.
Your view is great for you. Now think of the larger picture.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Forgiveness isn't for the person who wronged you, but for yourself.

When you truly forgive someone, you give yourself permission to let things go. It's rewarding to lose that burden.

No argument but it goes both ways. The perpetrator, which is all of us at some point in time, will also be given that reward if the victim is a good person and cares about people.

Have you never sought forgiveness and enjoyed getting it?

Regards
DL

Yes, it is relieving to be forgiven when I know I've wronged someone, you're right.

Fore give...

An act has a greater consequence than a reaction...as a reaction is only a part of an act...

Giving - in advance (as an act and free from the taint of ulterior motive) takes a strength that is unnaturally liberating...

As a 'tool', forgiveness, serves to sever the karmic connection...and in essence, because in some circumstances it is a difficult, almost impossible act to perform, by proxy comes from the Source...

A99

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Forgiveness isn't for the person who wronged you, but for yourself.

When you truly forgive someone, you give yourself permission to let things go. It's rewarding to lose that burden.

No argument but it goes both ways. The perpetrator, which is all of us at some point in time, will also be given that reward if the victim is a good person and cares about people.

Have you never sought forgiveness and enjoyed getting it?

Regards
DL

Yes, it is relieving to be forgiven when I know I've wronged someone, you're right.

I knew you weren't just another pretty face.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by akushla99
Fore give...

An act has a greater consequence than a reaction...as a reaction is only a part of an act...

Giving - in advance (as an act and free from the taint of ulterior motive) takes a strength that is unnaturally liberating...

As a 'tool', forgiveness, serves to sever the karmic connection...and in essence, because in some circumstances it is a difficult, almost impossible act to perform, by proxy comes from the Source...

A99

Your last is unknowable.

"because in some circumstances it is a difficult, almost impossible act to perform,"

It becomes less difficult if you recognize that society has a responsibility for the actions or way of thinking of all of us. No one lives in a vacuum and we all have an effect on each other. Every perpetrator, except for the insane, is whatever we have all put into him. That is why we show some mercy because we contributed in making us who we all are.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by guitarplayer

what difference should all this make to you? You apear to not beleive in God.
]

I am not an atheist. I am an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian.

The Godhead I know just has a better moral position and does not believe in human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty the way the Christians and their God does.

www.youtube.com...

Regards

DL

The God head? is that the head god? I beleive that the bible does outline How God worked in the past and how through the prophets He would deal with mankind through Jesus. If you want to call that human sacrifice then you do not understand Judism. "I am not an atheist. I am an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian." Would yoiu claify what this means i looked at the esoteric ecumenist and did not come up with much. Thanks

Originally posted by guitarplayer

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by guitarplayer

what difference should all this make to you? You apear to not beleive in God.
]

I am not an atheist. I am an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian.

The Godhead I know just has a better moral position and does not believe in human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty the way the Christians and their God does.

www.youtube.com...

Regards

DL

The God head? is that the head god? I beleive that the bible does outline How God worked in the past and how through the prophets He would deal with mankind through Jesus. If you want to call that human sacrifice then you do not understand Judism. "I am not an atheist. I am an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian." Would yoiu claify what this means i looked at the esoteric ecumenist and did not come up with much. Thanks

You may not be aware of it but Judaism took the moral hign ground and rejected the human sacrifice of Jesus as a human scapegoat. Christianity took the moral low ground and decided to profit from God's murder of his own son.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL