Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

Originally posted by Vidpci

Originally posted by caladonea
I am just wondering...if many of the Senators (if not all) knew about what was in those 154 pages before they voted; I think they did. (my opinion); before those 154 pages were drafted; (again) I am saying...they already knew what was in them.

That's why I said they probably had the gist of what was in them, but the point is, someone really needs to hold their feet to the fire and force them to read things before they vote on it. It should be required by law that you must read what you vote on. This is NOT representing the American people. This FEELS like passing whatever they're told to so they can go home.

So who writes the damm bills then? If you don't know what you are voting for then you abstain; you don't veto it and you don't accept it. Abstain means I don't know or I don't care.

I suspect they knew well in advance what was at stake so there was no need to waste time. America will go bankrupt sooner or later when its credit rating is too low to sell bonds and they need IMF assistance. Europe will eventually fail also because of the piigs. Then UN dictatorship with digital currency and rfid chips to verify the 666 code. I bet its all planned to the letter, that is why anyone that can do something about it keeps to script.

How come those 8 who said "no", are not going public about 3 min read time?

somethings not right

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
How come those 8 who said "no", are not going public about 3 min read time?

somethings not right

When you go to the bank to get a loan do you actually start reading the contract that you are about to sign and it is usually 4-5 pages long at most.......or do you simply say give me the pen and where do I sign? You know you will get screwed somehow so why bother complain about formalities?

150 pages takes about a week to read! They knew in advance about most of what was included via the non-sensical deliberations. People have to be naive to actually consider the american government and the taxpayer can actually payback 16 trillion to debt holders. The government knew about it, the investors knew, the people did not. The top investors WANT america to default so they can move their agenda of consolidation forward. Debt is about control for them, not money. They have plenty of money regardless if nations tank under.

This is not new congress lazy whores has been doing this for decades, when congress opens up for business is not Tax payer citizens the ones parading the halls in congress making sure that our "for the people politicians" are doing what is best for the people

But pimps hoards of lawyers with open wallets and plenty of already make, drafter bills for the whores in congress to pass at the last minute.

This is the way congress works in America they sell the tax payers and citizens to the higher bider at the auction block.

Once again we have been sold

reply to post by Maxmars


dont forget looking for any last-minute riders
that have been attached

max stoller at naked capitalism has found 8 corporate subsidies that are absolutely disgusting
i find the one for railroads disturbingly reminiscent of similar shenanigans in "atlas shrugged"

1) Help out NASCAR - Sec 312 extends the “seven year recovery period for motorsports entertainment complex property”, which is to say it allows anyone who builds a racetrack and associated facilities to get tax breaks on it. This one was projected to cost $43 million over two years.

2) A hundred million or so for Railroads - Sec. 306 provides tax credits to certain railroads for maintaining their tracks. It’s unclear why private businesses should be compensated for their costs of doing business. This is worth roughly $165 million a year.

3) Disney’s Gotta Eat - Sec. 317 is “Extension of special expensing rules for certain film and television productions”. It’s a relatively straightforward subsidy to Hollywood studios, and according to the Joint Tax Committee, was projected to cost $150m for 2010 and 2011.

4) Help a brother mining company out – Sec. 307 and Sec. 316 offer tax incentives for miners to buy safety equipment and train their employees on mine safety. Taxpayers shouldn’t have to bribe mining companies to not kill their workers.

5) Subsidies for Goldman Sachs Headquarters – Sec. 328 extends “tax exempt financing for York Liberty Zone,” which was a program to provide post-9/11 recovery funds. Rather than going to small businesses affected, however, this was, according to Bloomberg, “little more than a subsidy for fancy Manhattan apartments and office towers for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America Corp.” Michael Bloomberg himself actually thought the program was excessive, so that’s saying something. According to David Cay Johnston’s The Fine Print, Goldman got $1.6 billion in tax free financing for its new massive headquarters through Liberty Bonds.

6) $9B Off-shore financing loophole for banks – Sec. 322 is an “Extension of the Active Financing Exception to Subpart F.” Very few tax loopholes have a trade association, but this one does. This strangely worded provision basically allows American corporations such as banks and manufactures to engage in certain lending practices and not pay taxes on income earned from it. According to this Washington Post piece, supporters of the bill include GE, Caterpillar, and JP Morgan. Steve Elmendorf, super-lobbyist, has been paid $80,000 in 2012 alone to lobby on the “Active Financing Working Group.”

7) Tax credits for foreign subsidiaries – Sec. 323 is an extension of the “Look-through treatment of payments between related CFCs under foreign personal holding company income rules.” This gibberish sounding provision cost $1.5 billion from 2010 and 2011, and the US Chamber loves it. It’s a provision that allows US multinationals to not pay taxes on income earned by companies they own abroad.

8) Bonus Depreciation, R&D Tax Credit – These are well-known corporate boondoggles. The research tax credit was projected to cost $8B for 2010 and 2011, and the depreciation provisions were projected to cost about $110B for those two years, with some of that made up in later years.

Conveniently, the Joint Committee on Taxation in 2010 did an analysis of what many of these extenders cost. You can find that report here.www.jct.gov...

Enjoy!
Read more at www.nakedcapitalism.com... .99

discussed in this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Vidpci


Sounds painfully close to pelosi's " You have to pass it to see what's in it" deal with obamacare. This seems to be the norm anymore, " Don't even think about questioning it, just for it." Great way to run a government.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


WTH Nascar? why the @#$@#$ are we funding anything for a sport?

Sac's is suckin some cash from our pockets again as well.

On the next bill why dosent one of us sneak in there and slap
a ammendment on it to give ATS a billion or two over the next few
years..

at least it would be used for something useful.

Originally posted by severdsoul
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

WTH Nascar? why the @#$@#$ are we funding anything for a sport?

Sac's is suckin some cash from our pockets again as well.

On the next bill why dosent one of us sneak in there and slap
a ammendment on it to give ATS a billion or two over the next few
years..

at least it would be used for something useful.

LL!
why stop there? if we could pull something like that off why not slip in term limits [no more than 2 per lifetime], and a 50% pay cut for all gov employees [well, not those that are actually doing work, of course] and make lobbying a treasonable offense with the appropriate penalty?

The whole idea of the fiscal cliff is that it expired 1/1/13 @ 12:00 AM, the Bush tax cuts expired.

Whatever THIS is, was not suppose to have been read. It was passed an hour late to look like it was a fix to the cliff, it wasn't.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Good idea, Which one of our members can we work
up to become a senator... hmmmmm
has to be from the inside, someone that looks the part
play the role, then 3 1/2 min before the bill is turned in
they slip in all of our new law request's that we the people
want, and we sit smiling watching it go through and be
signed into law...

boy wouldnt that be the greatest! Beating them at their own
game. Make all their laws non existant that have been created
since around 1970 on, and force them to start over... would
have to hire a lawyer to write it for us..

Would love to see the reactions of tptb if that actually could happen.

Greetings EarthCitizen07
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

So who writes the damm bills then?

The CNS article failed to reveal who wrote it. The Apollo Alliance was reported to have written the obamacare socialized medicine law, along with most legislation.

The question becomes, who wrote this bill?

The Apollo Alliance?

hussein soetoro's 57 member czar staff?

The "esteemed" Bill Ayers?

It would seem that this, the Abovetopsecret website is the most likely key to finding out, given members' reputation for ferreting out "close-hold" information.

Thanks, EarthCitizen07, for initiating the query.

reply to post by Vidpci


We obviously need to vote them all out, and we need term limits of all politicians.

reply to post by Donahue


clap-clap-clap

been reading this site for two years and this has to be the best description of the US government. well done (not being sarcastic)

Funny thing is that a good deal of stuff in the bill that mentioned 2012 was replaced with 2013. I got the impression that we will be running into this same line of bull at the start of 2014....so we avoided the fiscal cliff but prolonging more tax cuts and with virtually no cuts in spending...how is this going to help us?

This is really nothing new, they have done it for every major item in past 12 years. 9/11 patriot act, signed without reading, as stated by many who signed. Then they get a second go around and still don't read patriot act 2 lol . indef. detention bill, how many read that before signing. Hell just watch CNN when they are voting. You can see multiple people voting for people not even there, and in some cases for the other freaking party!!! wtf lol

Wait till last moment. Then what ever party is trying to get the garbage in forces the other party whether its dem/repub. congress/senate. If they don't vote " oh no you didn't help save poor people" if they do vote to pass, the party gets what ever garbage they want in and wont be found till last minute.

Here's an idea. Make it suspend any activity that would transpire until a real vote has been made. ( I mean a deadline come on who the f are we giving a deadline to? Ourselves? I think when it comes to millions not being able to eat, clothe, or put a roof over ones head we can take an extra week or two, am I right? lol) or treason if items in bill were not on the table when being discussed.


But that would never happen because they are all in bed with each other and for the most part could really give two
$%^& less about any off us. For the people by the people was long long gone before any of these morons got into power.

now its all about ..... more for me none for you.

In re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

The only reason the Senate get a copy is to check how much pork made it in the bill.

Kudos for fellow ATS user DerepentLEstranger for posting those tasty bits of bacon.... Disney, NASCAR etc

How can anyone claim we have a representative government when our "reps" are not allowed to do their job?

reply to post by caladonea


How can they know what is being passed though and slipped in even if they are not given enough time to read it?
If a car sales man told you everything he wanted you to know before hand would you not read what is written down in writing in the agreement or contract?

Evidently I'm not alone in feeling sickened by this. Literally makes me want to friggin' puke.

Should be all the evidence anyone would ever need to realize we have been completely and totally sold down the river. Why do we stand for this nonsense? Broken, abysmally broken is our government.

Originally posted by Mamatus
I would like to know who did NOT vote for it and why. They might be the only eight worth re-electing!
Damn this pisses me off. Our Government needs to go.

You beat me to it. Makes me very angry to see our most important legislation get passed with no time to read, let alone understand the content. The most important decisions get made hastily by reluctant legislators lately, I'd at least like to know who's fighting this nonsense.

Bottom line is I bet that 154 pages boiled down to this: "keep the printing presses making money as fast as possible so we can patch all the holes with money"