Homeowner Shoots, Kills Burglary Suspect in N. Phoenix

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posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by 1MrMarc
I have debated sharing my personal story of a break in that happened to me when I was 21. But here it goes.
My best friend and I were roommates it was both of our first time not living with a gaggle of friends, so we found the best deal we could afford. Well it was a quick lesson that you get what you pay for. We ended up in a unit that was in the back of the complex in the units reserved for Section 8 housing. It was not the place we were originally shown. We figured no big deal because we didn't come from the greatest environments. After the activity I witnessed on a daily basis, I had just celebrated my 21st birthday after moving in and bought myself a 38 special. A few weeks later I was home alone and my buddy stayed at his girlfriend's. I woke up at about 3 am to my dog barking his head off. He was in trouble so he was in his kennel otherwise he would have bit the guy. I knew something was wrong so I grabbed my gun and peeked into the living room where I saw a shadow. I opened my door and the light from my TV allowed me to se the Guy better. I pointed my weapon and yelled "GET OUT OF HERE!" He yelled "F You" back to me and took a step forward. I shot twice and missed and he took off. I could have taken a third shot while he was unlocking the door and running away but instincts stopped me.
I called 911 and waited on the phone until police arrived. They ransacked my place, and asked me why I was targeted. I had no answer besides us having nice stuff. I guess they were suspicious because of the normal tweaker crime our complex had. They took my gun and did not give it back for almost a year. I finally got ahold of the detective who told me I did the right thing, but due to the crime in my area they don't believe the residents too often. He apologized for the inconvenience and released my firearm back to me.
I guess this story hit home because it was good to see the police standing up for their citizens.
I did move out that day in fear of retaliation since he got away. I must have just barely missed because the holes were in the center of my front door.
edit on 1/3/1313 by 1MrMarc because: (no reason given)


^ And this is how humans behave. You realised he was no longer a threat and so opted not to kill him. Where as numerous on this forum would, or are claiming they would, have killed him, despite the fact he no longer posed a threat, but simply because criminals deserve the death sentence




posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by guohua
reply to post by GrandStrategy
 





Yes it matters. Numerous posters in here are using emotional arguments, asking dumb questions like 'well what would you do if some one was trying to break in your daughters room'. That he wasn't breaking in to the daughters room matters a lot, because with the daughters room question the implication is that the person was there to harm your daughter. No, there's no evidence of that.


No Evidence!!

Holmes said the occupant told police he felt threatened because he thought the intruder would get into his daughter's bedroom.

Better to have protected your family than be tied to a chair and witness the rape and murder of your Loves Ones!
Wouldn't you agree?
I'll say this again, You and I can not read the other persons mind, we do not know his intentions.
The intruder was attempting to gain access to a private residence.
The intruder did not stop and leave when ordered to by the resident.
The intruder is Dead.
Go ahead and run and hide and pray the Police show up in time to save your A$$ and that of your Loved Ones.
I'm Sorry you can't seem to agree that the protection of your Loved Ones are more important than the life of a Criminal.
We'll have to part ways here, you go ahead and depend on faceless people to respond to the need of you and your's.
I'll depend on my family and myself to keep safe what I Love Most In this World, My Family!

edit on 3-1-2013 by guohua because: Spell Check
edit on 3-1-2013 by guohua because: Spell Check


There is no evidence he was going to his daughters room.

If you just kill someone you will naturally justify it. He was reaching for his waist, I feared he was going to kidnap or rape my daughter. All claims you expect, whether true or not.

The man showed 0 intention of going for his daughter.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by lee anoma
 


Not likely.
Having lived in AZ and being a LEO there, open carry is no joke and widely used.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by GrandStrategy
 

The one nice officer at the scene told me I was lucky I hesitated and thought twice. Because had I shot him in the back, I would have been in a world of trouble.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


Still says the criminal, who is mad that criminal actions have consequences outside the realm of a hand-slap and a hug to make things better.

Your definition may be correct, but it still doesn't change the fact that you are a criminal, that believed your wants outweighed someones rights to not have their own property being taken.

This is very simple, if you don't want to be shot breaking into someone's home or property, don't be a criminal and don't break into people's homes or property.

Your opinion on this matter is very very entertaining. I do love the fact that a self admitted criminal does not like that a fellow criminal was shot and killed while engaging in criminal actions.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


Oh, I get it. Since you are a fellow criminal, you know his intentions and what he was really after.

I get it now. Ok then. sure sure.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by 1MrMarc
 


You are correct Toast 'Em. But for me any lost life in general sucks, even if they had it coming. Trust me, I would have done the same as the homeowner and stop the threat.

Thank you for your comment.
I'm not cold and callused - I don't want to see people die - for any reason.
BUT - if it comes down to my loved ones - or an intruder?
One shot - no misery - period.
Is it horrible?
Yes it is.
But I am not the one to initiate the 'horrible'...
And no, I'm not looking for an excuse to 'off' someone - but I'm not going to give 'them' a free hand to 'off' someone I love either.

peace and Happy New Year


edit on 3-1-2013 by silo13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc
Conversely, given the violence and brutality that so many thieves and home invaders add to their theft, the onus should not be on the citizen to determine just how nefarious their intent may or may not be. Simple robberies turn into rapes and murders all of the time. Sometimes it is because they do not want witnesses and sometimes it is because they are just cruel and evil people.Given this, one should not expect an honest citizen to play psychologist and policeman and counselor and social worker all at once at 0200 in the morning. The benefit of the doubt for the need to use deadly force should be given to the citizen. It is very easy for the criminal to avoid the problem: don't cause it.

This is not about being judge, jury, or executioner, it is about honest people protecting themselves and their families from predatory criminals. No homeowner ever wanted to shoot someone. Even if determined legal, the civil lawsuit and emotional fallout can be devistating. Ever single defensive shooter would have perferred to sleep in thier bed peacefully. It is the criminal that forced the situation on them and it is the criminal that is at fault for their own demise.


Well we'll have to agree to disagree. It's still my view that the home owner killed him because he couldn't control his fear, that the man would showed no real threat, but the gun owner lacked the composure, maturity and courage required to deal with the situation in any other way.

I think the fact his neighbour left the crazy to his own devices, without killing him dead, is a big strike against the home owner who did shoot him. And the fact that the man at the window trying to get in was still outside, is another big one. Why was it necessary for the second man to kill the guy, but not the first man?

Assuming for a moment that we agree on the laws(i know we don't) and I say that okay citizens should have rights to shoot intruders, I still don't see how shooting somebody dead, just because you can and theft is wrong, is worthy of celebration. Especially if the man was mentally ill. I think there is something seriously wrong in applauding incidents like this one. There's a massive step in sanity and humanity between "Citizens ought to have guns and be able to use them when somebody enters their property without permission with criminal intentions, to protect themselves, their family and their property" and "Hooray, lets kill all these criminal scum, a criminal is dead hell yeah! USA!"

There's a big difference there



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by silo13
 


Agree. Any person breaking into someone's daughter's bedroom should be shot without hesitation.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by GrandStrategy

I think the fact his neighbour left the crazy to his own devices, without killing him dead, is a big strike against the home owner who did shoot him. And the fact that the man at the window trying to get in was still outside, is another big one. Why was it necessary for the second man to kill the guy, but not the first man?


Because breaking into a vehicle does not pose a threat like breaking into someone's home.
You clearly have no clue as to what AZ laws are, nor do you have any understanding of how Americans deem personal protection and private property.
You have no guaranteed freedoms, no rights beyond what the Monarchy deems for you, nor do you have rights to bear arms.

Your opinion in this matter is merely as an outsider, with a "One World Citizen" mentality and really is funny to read and watch.

But, do go and babble on some more with your uninformed BS and defining armchair psychology.
edit on 3-1-2013 by macman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


Still says the criminal, who is mad that criminal actions have consequences outside the realm of a hand-slap and a hug to make things better.

Your definition may be correct, but it still doesn't change the fact that you are a criminal, that believed your wants outweighed someones rights to not have their own property being taken.

This is very simple, if you don't want to be shot breaking into someone's home or property, don't be a criminal and don't break into people's homes or property.

Your opinion on this matter is very very entertaining. I do love the fact that a self admitted criminal does not like that a fellow criminal was shot and killed while engaging in criminal actions.



That was a long time ago. I was also a racist at 15 years old, I'm anything but now. I was also a capitalist at 15 years old, I'm anything but now. It's a bit silly for me to have to carry around the tag of a criminal for something I did before I was an adult, something I did when, by about every measure, I was a completely different person to who I am now.

Who here hasn't broken the law at some point in their life? I bet most here are criminals if you want to be technical about it.

I don't get why it's entertaining though. Where's the humour in a person having lived on both sides of the fence, a person who's robbed and been robbed himself, giving his views? IF anything i'm in a better position to give comment than most of you, because I know what criminals are like and I know what victims are like. And it's not this black and white picture you paint where all victims are good guys, all criminals bad guys who warrant an immediate death sentence.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


A criminal is a criminal is a criminal.

Your shedding of a tear for your fellow criminal is.......................very telling.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:13 AM
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The man showed 0 intention of going for his daughter.


I disagree, he was "going" for something in that house, prove that it wasn't the daughter. If you have children you should understand.
edit on 1/3/2013 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


A criminal is a criminal is a criminal.

Your shedding of a tear for your fellow criminal is.......................very telling.


I'm not shedding a tear but yes it's telling. It's telling of empathy. It tells that I, a good kind hearted person(aside from being a stubborn and argumentative bastard), might have been shot dead too if I was an American, and people like yourself would actually applaud that, as if I was nothing more than vermin.

I'd ask if it hurts to establish yourself as a lesser human being than a criminal, but I doubt your brain is wired right to demonstrate that sort of emotional intelligence.

A bellend is a bellend is a bellend



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by RedParrotHead

The man showed 0 intention of going for his daughter.


I disagree, he was "going" for something in that house, prove that it wasn't the daughter. If you have children you should understand.
edit on 1/3/2013 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)


I don't have to prove it, it's common sense that he was a thief. Why else would he have been trying to break into the neighbours trunk... does the neighbours daughter sleep in the trunk? I think not.

ZERO evidence that he was going for anybody's daughter. This is just a myth that's been invented in this thread to justify an action that's hard to justify. Pretend robbers, crackheads and mentally ill people are all running around raping people, so we fell less bad when we shoot them dead in cold blood



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by GrandStrategy
 

I think alot of this discussion boils down to "Ifs" it depends on which "If" you want to live with. IF you believe you are in immediate danger and believe shooting is the solution, then you will have to live with that decision to pull the trigger for the rest of your life. IF you choose not to shoot, and instead hide and call the police, you leave yourself open to the threat. That could mean bodily injury or loss of life for you and whoever is in the household. Either way it's a decision that will take it's toll.
Personally I would rather live with the fact that I protected myself and loved ones and only one life was lost vs. placing my family and self in a 50/50 scenario where multiple lives could be destroyed.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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I live in Phoenix, well Scottsdale. The victim or man that was killed had to be on drugs or had mental issues. It is really sad if they were mental issues because Arizona's mental health system sucks. I have twin sister that has some problems and Arizona does nothing to help. It is all on the parents of the person or private citizens. The Arizona system sucks and just throws them back on the street
He probably was not in the right state of mind and had no clue what he was doing. That is no excuse to break into someone's house though. I am a gun owner and pretty much everyone in Arizona is. Jane Brewer our govenor also just approved Arizonans to conceal weapons without a ccw. Anybody thinking about committing a crime in Arizona should think twice because likely the person to the right has a gun, the person to the left has a gun, and the person in front of you has a gun. I find it foolish that criminals in Arizona ever try anything. They are just asking for an armed citizen to take action. Secondly, there are so many undocumented immigrants in Arizona. You hear about them all the time. A dui crash with an illegal, an illegal cartel hitman caught in Arizona. You hear stories all the time about the Mexican cartels sending up hitmen to the US. They murderer and go back or murderer and get caught. I have no connections to the cartels or people involved, but with people like that around i think it would be smart for every family to have a gun. You say it wont happen to me or my family. You hear about it all the time. A murder or home invasion where the perps got the wrong house or mistook the people they were looking for. Opps!



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


right, because cracked out thieves never hurt or kill people...would you take the risk of letting a thief pull something from his person (while a gun is pointed at him) with your family's safety on the line? If so, I'm glad your not my protector.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by GrandStrategy


I'm not shedding a tear but yes it's telling. It's telling of empathy.

So, the victim of say rape should show empathy towards the raper as the crime is happening??
You are basically a criminal still at heart.


Originally posted by GrandStrategy
It tells that I, a good kind hearted person(aside from being a stubborn and argumentative bastard), might have been shot dead too if I was an American, and people like yourself would actually applaud that, as if I was nothing more than vermin.

A good hearted person would not be committing crimes.
A good hearted person would not be robbing people
Just as a drunk is always a drunk, you are still a criminal.
And the person breaking into homes is vermin.
You established that you preyed on others so that you can live your life without hard work or anything but criminal activity.
Now who is the lowly person, hmmm???



Originally posted by GrandStrategy
I'd ask if it hurts to establish yourself as a lesser human being than a criminal, but I doubt your brain is wired right to demonstrate that sort of emotional intelligence.

Oh noes. Let me sob in the corner.
The criminal wants me to feel bad for a fellow criminal that was shot while committing a criminal act.


Originally posted by GrandStrategy
A bellend is a bellend is a bellend

Oh, so sad. Makes my heart just break into pieces that a criminal called me names.
edit on 3-1-2013 by macman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by ispyarich
 

I still took my CCW class and got my permit anyway shortly after they changed the law. You do learn alot from the class. And having one helps. I have been pulled over twice for speeding, and both times have informed the officers of my permit and whereabouts my firearm was in my car. The officers treated me with great respect. 1 let me go with a warning after doing 80 on the 202 and the other gave me Waste of Finite Resources doing 75 coming up the 60 from Globe. Having the permit gives you some cred. with LEO's.





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