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Homeowner Shoots, Kills Burglary Suspect in N. Phoenix

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posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by cripmeister
 


Doesn't really matter if it's a lie does it? The guy was in his house wasn't he?


Nope he wasn't.




posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by cripmeister
 


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by JarheadFidelis
 


not really , not quite that simple, as the article
states the home owner saw the perp put his hand
in his pocket, which would give him just cause,
the perp could of been going for a weapon, hence
self defence



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by severdsoul
 


Correct. Maybe we need to go back and re-read the article to see exactly where the guy was before we jump to conclusions.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by cripmeister
 


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.



Phoenix police Officer James Holmes said the 35-year-old intruder was trying to pry open a window when he was spotted by a man who lives there. The occupant, his wife, and two young girls were in the home at the time.

Read more: www.abc15.com...


I assumed everyone actually read the article that was the basis for this discussion, I was wrong.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by dl2oneThe2nd
good job. he could have been in the daughters room, he could've been a terrorist, he could've been the antichrist. now at least he is none of those.. ever


He also could have just been messed up.
Had he been arrested instead of killed he may have gone to jail and sorted his life out, when he came out he could have cured cancer or gone on to write inspirational books that deterred other kids from making the same mistakes he did.
Now he wont do any of those.... ever

How sick is your culture that your all happy hes dead


im not happy hes dead.. Im happy the innocent homeowner and his family are not dead

im allso happy that this guy isnt gonna break into my home in the middle of the night



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by oonkala
I will be amazed if the lawyers don't find a way to prosecute the man for protecting himself.
Do you remember the robber who fell on a kitchen knife while robbing a home and sued and won.

In AZ we passed a proposition protecting the victim from a criminal trying to sue them if they are injured while they attempt to commit a crime.

Proposition 114, the Arizona Crime Victims Protection Act, seeks to amend the state Constitution so that criminals cannot sue their victims if they are injured while committing felonies against the victims.

This passed.
edit on 1/2/1313 by 1MrMarc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by cripmeister
 


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.


Are you taking about Arizona?

3-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention; applicability A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304,manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904 or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2. B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section. C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if the person is acting to prevent what the person reasonably believes is the imminent or actual commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section. D. This section includes the use or threatened use of physical force or deadly physical force in a person's home, residence, place of business, land the person owns or leases, conveyance of any kind, or any other place in this state where a person has a right to be.

www.azleg.state.az.us...
Not only the above portion of the Law but here is another for you.

Arizona's SB 1145, as passed by the House and signed recently by the Governor.

And here is just one part of the Law for you to read.

A person is presumed to be justified in using force or deadly force if he/she reasonably believes they are another are in imminent peril and the attacker has entered or is trying to enter a residence or occupied auto. Again, no duty to retreat. (I don't think this changes the law any, since if a person reasonably believes themselves in imminent peril they are justified in using deadly force whether in a house or anywhere else).

armsandthelaw.com...

Please do not make a statement like:


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple

If you don't know our Laws in our State.
edit on 2-1-2013 by guohua because: Spell Check



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by guohua

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by cripmeister
 


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.


Are you taking about Arizona?

3-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention; applicability A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304,manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904 or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2. B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section. C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if the person is acting to prevent what the person reasonably believes is the imminent or actual commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section. D. This section includes the use or threatened use of physical force or deadly physical force in a person's home, residence, place of business, land the person owns or leases, conveyance of any kind, or any other place in this state where a person has a right to be.

www.azleg.state.az.us...

OUTSTANDING isn't it? Thanks for help in the research I couldn't find that, or at least did not know how to look for it.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by Twilightgem
... (text removed)...
Until we feel safe in our quiet homes the issue of guns will not be resolved


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will be plowing for those who do not." -Thomas Jefferson

The reality of the world is that we will never have "world peace." It's a nice dream, but it won't happen.

You could get to the point where you feel secure enough to get rid of your guns and other protections, but that is the personal gamble you (or anyone else with that line of thinking) would have to make. What if you do and you are wrong? What would happen to your family? Take away weapons permanently from the world and someone could still beat you down with nothing, but their hands. I admire the fact that you want that feeling of safety, I would love to have it too, but feeling safe wouldn't get rid of guns and unless I misjusdged your post it seemed like you lean towards thinking guns are a problem.

Even if I lived in the safest place in the world I would still have my own protection and I would still lock all my doors and windows. A weapon, no matter what kind, is never the reason something happens. It's always the people involved and their motives.

The intruder in this story would still have been alive if he had chosen a different ... profession. Perhaps society should look into taking personal responsibility for an individual's own actions instead of blaming everyone and everything, crying how they never got a pony, etc for the reason that they did "x" crime.

I was never given a pony, but you don't see me breaking and entering.... and I really wanted that pony



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by cripmeister
 


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.


Sorry but if I see someone trying to pry open my daughters window in the middle of the night, they are getting a slug center mast, no questions asked.

I could really care less if they are fully inside my house. The point of self defense is to stop harm from coming to you. Am i supposed to wait and look at my watch until they break in and start raping my daughter before i defend her??
edit on 3-1-2013 by WP4YT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by GrandStrategy
This is a great example of gun ownership? Reading the story, it sounds like he's just slaughtered in cold blood some poor mentally ill person.

Are you people for real? Shooting the mentally deranged is good? The mentally ill deserve death?

Every time I come to ATS my hope in humanity drops a little. Shooting a common criminal dead in cold blood is bad enough, to do it to some random crazy, probably too out of it to know any better, just smh.

You know what would happen in reasonable nations? He'd have been arrested and given the help he needs.

What the hell would Jesus say


You mean reasonable nations like Norway where Anders Breivik got 21 yeas in prison for slaughtering 77 people in cold blood?

Blowing the head off somebody breaking into my daughter's room is very reasonable. If he was crazy that's ever more reason.

What do you suggest? Should the home owner have tried to throw meds down his throat?

ps who cares what Jesus would say?



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by cripmeister
 


So how was the guy shot? Whu didn't he run when he was caught? Was he shot in the front? He was trying to pry open the guys window, wouldn't you agree that it was only a matter of time before he entered the house? The homeowner was justified. The guy was on his property trying to break into his home and you think the home owner is in the wrong. You blame the victim and accuse him of lying so he can shoot someone. That's absurd. That stems from the anti gun lobbies belief that all gun owners are depraved psychopaths.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 04:50 AM
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Hi posters,

I lost track after a while as so much bitching was going on between different people...

However, i wish to add my own personal contribution :

As a father of a 13 year old child, living in a European country where hunting is permitted and controlled with much strictness, (i hunt and own 2 shotguns (one for feathered game and the other for rabbits, Hares etc...) and also one very powerful rifle for large game such as Deer, Wild boar and Stag, which are all safely stocked in a metal safe within quick reach although ammunition is apart (some cartidges are hidden but also within easy and quick reach)... I am not a redneck, "LETS ALL OWN GUNS AND PROTECT OURSELVES... Bla Bla Bla*

The country where i was born, did not and still does not allow guns to be owned (apart from sports club members (only pistols) and rich land owners for hunting purposes.

When i was still in the country where i was born intruders... wife beaters, molestors etc... just got a good bopping from victims or victims families and the coppers arrived to finish of the bopping, when the perp complained the usual reply from the coppers was *well Mr Judge the perp fell down the stairs during the arrest or caught his neck and nose in the door whilst escaping!*

To be quite honest... I would do exactly the same thing now (but probably have a baseball bat or something similar handy to protect my loved ones.)

But... taking into consideration that i now live in a country which is seeing more and more violence with automatic weapons coming from Ex Yugoslavia etc... (Especially in Marseille or Corsica where we are counting roughly 1 death per month). I would not think twice before hurrying to my gun cabinet and sticking 3 large SALT cartridges in my shotgun barrel before warning, showing my shotgun and eventually blowing the pants off any intruder who dares to enter our premises.... (has to get past the 4 dogs first though and believe me, SALT cartridges will not kill, unless shot directly in the face, BUT, they will REALLY, REALLY hurt and chase away any intruder.

I wouldn't go as far as killing though... who has the right to steep so low as to taking the life of another human? however low that other human may be?

Much respects

Rodinus



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by GrandStrategy
 


Burglary of an occupied dwelling is not a petty crime. Most states consider it a serious felony. So, what would you do if you woke to find a man breaking in to your daughters room? Offer him tea and crumpets?


It's a petty crime. I don't care what most states consider it. Most states operate prisons as a means of slave labour and have idiotic laws like 3 strikes and the death penalty.


There you go. Like many accept a few laws we fancy and redefine laws we don't! But Bud you are alone in your little world! I lost everything I have earned in the US Army for 6 years! I lived in Piedmont Ca sandwiched between Beserkley and Oakland. This was the time we had to search for gas in 1977! Odd or even plate those who know remembers. It was the wrong day for my 10 gals but had to visit my Mom in Wa. So I went from service station to service station bribing my way to a full tank to leave. I got home to find I have lost everything from my Quad system that would bring the Grateful Dead back to life to my 35mm. None of my weapons!!!! Those get hidden. I had a service friend who went to Korea when I was discharged. He came back dirty as many who went to Korea to stand on the DMZ! They get bored then try smack.....

I had an idea who robbed me! I called Oakland PD as Beserkley did not claim Piedmont as theirs. What wasn't screwed by Ed was ruined by the Leos! Later when I visited Oakland Cop shop taking donuts (very important no donuts no access) and was told Ed's finger prints were everywhere but because he was a guest once they have no case. I tried to explain that he only had access to two rooms. The Leos did not care they would not even question him or check an alibi! I said rather foolishly that it was up to me as my sound system alone being a Quad system would fill a 3/4 ton pick up and because of bulk and weight if we moved fast should be able to locate it! Besides I engraved my SSAN n CDL on back of each unit! Cops did not care but added if anything ever happened to Ed all of us (as piggy pointed to fellow layabouts) just heard you!

I lost $24,000 that night as my insurance company wangled out of payment through a loophole that doesn't make sense. I knew from that point on LEOs are not my friends but there to serve their own! Yep later I called (10 years later from another State as I knew I could not trust myself) Ed said he owed big money to the Mex mafia but I stopped him as I called all known friends of Ed and warned them! Ed said I almost cost him his life with those calls. I explained that he had no life and do not come near me... last words from Ed "I thought You Were Insured" yep so did I! So almost every penny Uncle Sam paid me went out my front door. Whilst I thought (Key word when young dumb and full of c**) I was protecting our way of life under fire when it came to my turn the cowards in Oakland police department did nothing to help and hindered my recovery!

YOU CAN NEVER COUNT ON A LEO is the moral of my story. The end of this story because of being totally depressed and totally bummed I met a lovely lady who shared my life for four years that got me self motivated to finish Uni. I went to one place a down n out Vet could go San Francisco Park! I would have never met Nancy who saved my life! In the end she could not deal with my anger n nightmares many of my front line buddies have as we were the ones who went further into the bush than the rest at the firebase! I got nothing for my time of service except for the GI Bill that I had to constantly fight to receive! True no life was lost in my home invasion but mine was change forever I will walk away from a bleeding LEO begging for help!

I am still very angry had I been home Ed would be dead and because he was alive when I called his parents house means as a member of that break in team he worked off his debt which means as a result of those cowards in Oakland PD more victims were created!

Mamatus I gave you a star and sent you a U2U to explain why I don't see gray only black and white thus missing your true meaning to your statement on "Safe Room" sorry"! Hope after reading my U2U you will understand! Please read my U2U! IceHappy not enjoying taste of crow but trying to do the right thing!

Edited to add GrandStrategy I hope you will learn the truth and am afraid the only way you will is when you learn the hard way and may that happen soon so you will not appear as you do a Newbie a Rookie a "Butter Bar"!

BTW in India women are demanding carry guns as a result of that recent tragic RAPE! I am afraid for women as they all carry what monsters want seen enough monsters overseas!

OP Stars n only 1 Flag (sorry) well done moding your thread!
edit on 1/3/2013 by IceHappy because: Edited to add GrandStrategy I hope you will learn the truth




posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by cripmeister
 


If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.



Phoenix police Officer James Holmes said the 35-year-old intruder was trying to pry open a window when he was spotted by a man who lives there. The occupant, his wife, and two young girls were in the home at the time.

Read more: www.abc15.com...


I assumed everyone actually read the article that was the basis for this discussion, I was wrong.


Maybe you need to read up as well. Such as .. the law.

A person is presumed to be justified in using force or deadly force if he/she reasonably believes they are another are in imminent peril and the attacker has entered or is trying to enter a residence or occupied auto.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by Mamatus
Wait! Should the homeowner not have grabbed his daughter and withdrawn to a safe room where he could call the police for help?


Yes he could have and the next time this burglary suspect broke into a home it might have been some little old lady or your grandmother and they might have got beaten to death to keep them from identifying the burglar.

People that break into occupied homes are very dangerous and are capable of anything . many are high on drugs or nut cases.

Best put a stop to the problem at the earliest time possible before some person gets hurt or killed.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 07:49 AM
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Outside the _.. inside the house... Up the stairs, in the cellar... in the fridge, oven, microwave etc etc etc...

Wo really cares!? the person was lurking around the house or got into the houseand got shot in the good old gun toting US of A!?

I still stick to a barrel full of salt up the bottom to send them on their way, otherwise get rid of them the old fashioned way... but be sure to leave no evidence...

You should see what the Corsicans and people in Guyane do with robbers who enter into households! (If you have a good guard dog, they protect the house and then suddenly the remains disappear into the forest or the sea and the wild boars or fish finish off the rest!) *wipes hands and says no more*

Warmest repsects to all cultures and countries.

Rodinus



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by cripmeister
 


Doesn't really matter if it's a lie does it? The guy was in his house wasn't he?
Why would the homeowner make something like "reached into his pants" up when it wasn't required? The guy broke into his house, so the homeowner was already justified.
edit on 2-1-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)


No, he was outside the house. Read the story again.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by severdsoul
reply to post by JarheadFidelis
 


not really , not quite that simple, as the article
states the home owner saw the perp put his hand
in his pocket, which would give him just cause,
the perp could of been going for a weapon, hence
self defence


Or, the perp could have shot in fear, and the perp wasn't reaching for anything. If you kill someone you're going to try to justify it





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