Homeowner Shoots, Kills Burglary Suspect in N. Phoenix

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by WP4YT

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
This is a great example of gun ownership? Reading the story, it sounds like he's just slaughtered in cold blood some poor mentally ill person.

Are you people for real? Shooting the mentally deranged is good? The mentally ill deserve death?

Every time I come to ATS my hope in humanity drops a little. Shooting a common criminal dead in cold blood is bad enough, to do it to some random crazy, probably too out of it to know any better, just smh.

You know what would happen in reasonable nations? He'd have been arrested and given the help he needs.

What the hell would Jesus say

Im sure you would be singing a different tune had he broken into your house, gave you a concussion, raped your wife and daughter, and stole all your money. That poor, poor mentally I'll man. He didn't know any better. Is that what you would be saying, while spitting your teeth out into your hands? My guess is that you don't have a wife or any children though, do you?

edit on 2-1-2013 by WP4YT because: (no reason given)

Nope, no wife or kids.

Didn't think so

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by kingsquirel

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by kingsquirel
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

How many accounts do you have on ATS?


Thanks op, i see there are individuals whom would curl up in a ball and let god take judgement of the outcome, and then there are Americans who take care of their family without hesitation. With some of these responses, no wonder the U.S. needs military bases all over the world.

All you Americans have demonstrated in this thread is your inherent fear of the world. Owning and being prepared to use a gun doesn't hide the cowardice, sorry. I can give a gun to a 12 year old and he would show the shame shoot to kill "bravery" that you all have.

You sound like a bunch of cats, truth be told. I bet half of you would fold like ironing boards if forced into a confrontation with a criminal without your guns. Probability alone says that's got to be true. But you're all so tough eh, that's probably why the world over criminals target american tourists because they know you're a soft touch

I think Winston Churchill would disagree with you as he stated, "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchill

This quote of his was roughly said about the same time as he was asking the U.S. for help in WWII, so what has happened to the U.K. you guys get soft

What happened to the UK was that we were fighting a war with one of the greatest military powers of the time and, as you would, aid and military support was requested from an ally.

Don't really see what that has to do with American gun owners being scared of conflict(the fact we had to coerce you into joining WWII is sort of evidence, no?) and the fact Americans are specifically targeted and robbed throughout the world because your citizens are seen as a soft touch.

I see that your fourth grade education needs to be updated atleast a couple of notches.

For starters America and its right to bear arms is not only a socially accepted idea, but symbolic.

So much in fact the (Dick Act of 1902) states: The Dick Act of 1902 also known as the Efficiency of Militia Bill H.R. 11654, of June 28, 1902 invalidates all so-called gun-control laws. It also divides the militia into three distinct and separate entities.


The three classes H.R. 11654 provides for are the organized militia, henceforth known as the National Guard of the State, Territory and District of Columbia, the unorganized militia and the regular army. The militia encompasses every able-bodied male between the ages of 18 and 45. All members of the unorganized militia have the absolute personal right and 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms of any type, and as many as they can afford to buy.


The Dick Act of 1902 cannot be repealed; to do so would violate bills of attainder and ex post facto laws which would be yet another gross violation of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The President of the United States has zero authority without violating the Constitution to call the National Guard to serve outside of their State borders.


The National Guard Militia can only be required by the National Government for limited purposes specified in the Constitution (to uphold the laws of the Union; to suppress insurrection and repel invasion). These are the only purposes for which the General Government can call upon the National Guard.


Attorney General Wickersham advised President Taft, "the Organized Militia (the National Guard) can not be employed for offensive warfare outside the limits of the United States."


The Honorable William Gordon, in a speech to the House on Thursday, October 4, 1917, proved that the action of President Wilson in ordering the Organized Militia (the National Guard) to fight a war in Europe was so blatantly unconstitutional that he felt Wilson ought to have been impeached... Cont www.civilrightstaskforce.info...

Thus, the quote that I gave you earlier from Winston Churchill ("A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril.") Meaning that the U.S. loves its constitutional right to bear arms, and has everything to do with our heritage. Now if your small mind cannot fathom this verbage then I have nothing further to elaborate to you, as your cultural and social norms will not allow you to understand what it is to be an American, and have the legal right to bear arms.

reply to post by cripmeister


Who cares if he lied? The guy was in his home, and I guess no way in a million years he could be possibly telling the truth.

reply to post by kingsquirel


Taking advice from a non citizen about gun control is like taking driving advice from someone whos only ridden in the passenger seat. Its pointless and frustrating.

reply to post by cripmeister


Lie or not, anyonr breaking into my home will be shot.

They have entered my home without permission, I therefore feel threatened or at least I feel the situation is nto safe for my wife and son. Either way they will be shot, I do not care what their intentions are. I will shoot first then ask questions when it comes to someone entering my home without permission.

No sympathy for someone breaking into someones home.


Raist

Originally posted by WP4YT

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by WP4YT

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
This is a great example of gun ownership? Reading the story, it sounds like he's just slaughtered in cold blood some poor mentally ill person.

Are you people for real? Shooting the mentally deranged is good? The mentally ill deserve death?

Every time I come to ATS my hope in humanity drops a little. Shooting a common criminal dead in cold blood is bad enough, to do it to some random crazy, probably too out of it to know any better, just smh.

You know what would happen in reasonable nations? He'd have been arrested and given the help he needs.

What the hell would Jesus say

Im sure you would be singing a different tune had he broken into your house, gave you a concussion, raped your wife and daughter, and stole all your money. That poor, poor mentally I'll man. He didn't know any better. Is that what you would be saying, while spitting your teeth out into your hands? My guess is that you don't have a wife or any children though, do you?

edit on 2-1-2013 by WP4YT because: (no reason given)

Nope, no wife or kids.

Didn't think so

I know you didn't, I saw that when you said "you don't have a wife or any children though, do you?"

let me know if you're going to ask daft questions in future without following them up, that way I can save myself the trouble of replying to them

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by 1MrMarc

This is a great example of gun ownership.

Really?

Holmes said the suspect was initially seen trying to break into a pickup truck around 2 a.m. but fled when the truck's owner confronted him with a baseball bat.

Read more: www.abc15.com...

Of course we have this

The homeowner confronted the suspect who reportedly reached into his pants as if he had a weapon and was shot by the homeowner, who felt threatened, according to Holmes.

Read more: www.abc15.com...

Which could not possibly never in a million years be a lie to justify the use of deadly force.

edit on 2/1/2013 by cripmeister because: (no reason given)

omg get over yourself

what if this guy was in your daughters bedroom..

Originally posted by kingsquirel
Thus, the quote that I gave you earlier from Winston Churchill ("A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril.") Meaning that the U.S. loves its constitutional right to bear arms, and has everything to do with our heritage. Now if your small mind cannot fathom this verbage then I have nothing further to elaborate to you, as your cultural and social norms will not allow you to understand what it is to be an American, and have the legal right to bear arms.

But I'm a Brit so I care no more about what the U.S. loves and values than you care about what British people love and value. That in itself I don't think is a valid form of argument. In Afghanistan they might value treating their women like dirt, but should we not criticise and express our disapproval just because that might hold some sort of tradition or national value for them?

Invoking Churchill doesn't really work because as far I'm concerned he was a bellend.

Originally posted by goou111
what if this guy was in your daughters bedroom..

The guy wasn't in anyones bedroom, he was stood outside a window

If he was in his daughters bedroom then you could understand shooting him, but he wasn't!

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So if you remove a woman's ability to stop a rape, what are you supporting then?

Oh okay, so if I said that by having guns you must be condoning rape, because I believe there's a correlation between backwards countries that have guns and higher incidence of rape, would that be an acceptable thing to say?

I don't think that's acceptable in any decent persons book. But then again I'm not from America. It's obvious what you think is right and acceptable isn't in line with those of us living in the 21st century

ANd yet, in many civilized countries there is a higher incidence of rape where there is gun control.

According to a news report on BBC One presented in 12 November 2007, there were 85,000 women raped in the UK in the previous year, equating to about 230 cases every day. The 2006-07 British Crime Survey reports that 1 in every 200 women suffered from rape in that period. It also showed that only 800 people were convicted of rape crimes that same year, meaning that less than 1 in every 100 rape survivors were able to convict their attacker.[42][43] According to a study in 2009 by the NSPCC on young people aged between 13-18, a third of girls and 16% of boys have experienced sexual violence and that as many as 250,000 teenage girls are suffering from abuse at any one time.[44][45] 12% of boys and 3% of girls reported committing sexual violence against their partners.[46]

The Department of Justice estimated that 188,380 Americans were victims of sexual violence last year. Only 84,767 assaults defined as forcible rapes were reported in 2010, according to national statistics from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

So more rapes in the UK with 1/5 the population. If I was a woman in the UK, I'd want a gun to defend myself against rape. Looks like "living in the 21st Century" is not a good thing for a woman in the UK. Here's the thing, it may be the 21st century, but human nature hasn't changed and bad people will still prey on defenseless people.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by cripmeister

 

Who cares if he lied? The guy was in his home, and I guess no way in a million years he could be possibly telling the truth.

I care because letting people off too easy in incidents like this does not promote personal responsibility. If you have a gun for self defense you better be prepared to face the consequences of your actions. This is how it works in every other aspect of society. And by the way I am pretty sure the article said the guy was trying to break into his home.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


We ay have started off on the wrong foot, but if he indeed wasnt in the house, there was no reason to shoot him. A warning that you are armed and calling the police is sufficient enough

good job. he could have been in the daughters room, he could've been a terrorist, he could've been the antichrist. now at least he is none of those.. ever

Originally posted by dl2oneThe2nd
good job. he could have been in the daughters room, he could've been a terrorist, he could've been the antichrist. now at least he is none of those.. ever

He also could have just been messed up.
Had he been arrested instead of killed he may have gone to jail and sorted his life out, when he came out he could have cured cancer or gone on to write inspirational books that deterred other kids from making the same mistakes he did.
Now he wont do any of those.... ever

How sick is your culture that your all happy hes dead

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Im not happy hes dead, but if you come into my house in the middle of the night, into my daughters room and reach for something that may or may not be there, Im going to shoot you. Cops kill people for twitching during arrest or for running away. Reaching for something(perceived) is a given.

maybe he was desperate and hungry just as his kids might have been, I know i would do anything to feed my kids and my self. But you know you guys will never know until you are in the same situation and tbh i hope when you all are you get the shotgun to the face. then your kids will be at home now with out a father to FIGHT for them feed them.

Shoot and kill first then ask questions later.

A baseball bat would have done to job or a shot over his head might have sent him running, but you lot really do not care for your own.

reply to post by cripmeister


Doesn't really matter if it's a lie does it? The guy was in his house wasn't he?
Why would the homeowner make something like "reached into his pants" up when it wasn't required? The guy broke into his house, so the homeowner was already justified.

Wow, i cant believe the amount of boo hoo for
the bad guy in here.. i really did not expect to see
that from ATS.

So from what i have caught up with, the main boohooing
is because he was outside the window and not actually
in the house right?

So its ok for a "Mentally Ill" person to be standing out
side your daughters window gettin his jollies off?

Oh, wow, he needs some help, lets help this poor soul,
then a few months after he is released, guess what your
daughter comes up missing and there is no trace as to where
she went or who took her... hmmm ya good thing we got that
wackjob some help.

Man, i have read some pity soft crap before, but the jerk got
what was coming to him, mentally ill , crazy or just stupid.

Oh so he dosent get your daughter, but someone elses...
but thats ok...

and that post i read about someone having the house robbed 5x
and let them go, then the response a few down to which
"it's not my concern if they go to a nother home and do the same"

That is what is wrong with the world, no sense of community any more,
its all about me and mine, not how it will effect someone else.

Sad state we are in when a criminal is pitied such as this, and i
understand the one poster is from U.K. and cant begin to comprehend.
They have been made so soft its not even funny, sadly we as americans
are headed the same direction as they are if things dont change.

reply to post by Legion2024


most forget the golden rules, instead they result to
breaking in and stealing...

if a father or person was hungry, they would make it
a lot further by just knocking on the door and asking
for some food, or what ever they need.
Most people would be willing to help out, we have all
(well most) been down and out before and know how
rough it is, but most of us did not resort to stealing
and breaking into homes to get by.