Proof 2 Guns Found in Black Honda at Sandy Hook Elementary School

I am watching the video again and its not clear that the shotgun in question is a Saiga. I dont see any mag on the gun being removed. I see the tech clearing the chamber using a charging handle and what is clearly a shotshell being ejected form the chamber. I do not however see him remove a magazine from the gun. Maybe I am missing something so that could be a Saiga. There are plenty of other semi auto shotguns on the market.
That being said lets assume it is a Saiga and to get this post back closer to the topic.
As I stated in my prior post its not illegal to modify and sell a Saiga shotgun. Even if it is modified and not registered to Adams mother that does not make it an "illegal" firearm. That assertion is way off base. I know CT has an AWB and the Saiga Shotgun may qualify under that ban so that may change things but the gun in question in the configuration in question is perfectly legal and for her to purchase that gun "off the books" so to speak in a private transfer is also perfectly legal barring any specific CT ban on possesion.

Very nice find OP, this is truly a "smoking gun" (no pun intended).

Police Chief Vance, and the media, seem unable to get their story's straight on this one. First he says "the only weapons were found on the shooter", now according to this NPR article he is saying "The shotgun had been recovered in the vehicle Lanza drove to the school on the day of the attack". The lead coroner reports that the main weapon used was the Bushmaster, contrary to media reports that it was found in the trunk (ABC news). Now we see from this footage, that there was TWO long guns in the car! So either the Bushmaster was found in the truck as the media reported, or we have a 5th gun that no one wants to talk about?

A few of my biggest questions now are, who's car was this? Who are these guns registered to? Where is the school footage of Adam entering the school? Where is the proof that Adam even used this car? Why does the police officer with on-duty clothing clear the firearm (with bare hands), when there is white-garbed investigators standing behind him? Wouldn't you want the trained forensic people to clear it with gloves on? Many more questions need to be asked, but for the sake of brevity I will refrain.

reply to post by Dragoon01


It is no different than building a parts kit onto a 100% registered receiver. You still cannot legally build and sell for profit.. If you are modifying Saigas and selling them for profit you will go to jail, just the same as if you are building and selling parts kits on 100% receivers.


You cannot legally modify an imported weapon. It must first made 922 complaint E.G. "Made in the USA" compliant! This is by definition manufacturing!

I would say that ATF determination you saw saying that a Saiga only has 13 parts is BS #1. #2 to make a gun 922 complaint is to manufacture the gun in the USA.

You need an FFL to build and sell, and it is as simple as that. You can build and keep em all day long! It the transfer that gets you.

Since the Lanza Saiga-12 was unregistered it is very likely an illegally transferred homemade weapon as a licensed manufacturer would have done the paper work etc.. Maybe this is why it was left in the trunk! If, Loaded with buck shot, sabot, fletche or similar it would have most certainly been the most destructive weapon Lanza had at the scene. An illegally transferred homemade weapon would not have the same punch with gun control advocates as a store bought AR.

Pre ban has nothing to do with Saigas. To add prohibited item to an imported rifle it must first be remanufactured to be 922 compliant E.G Made in the USA. After this the gun is no longer considered an import.

I have a modified Saiga-12 and I did the modification. I can legally sell this gun you are right, but if I built the gun with the intent to sell or sold 2+ in a short period of time I could go to jail and face $250,000 in fines and 10 years behind bars. The law regarding selling homemade weapons is open to interpretation and so selling even one gun you manufactured without proper license is a thin ice scenario!

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Your making a case for something not in question. No one was talking about building guns for profit. The law defines what constitutes "manufacturing". I never said anything about that. Your first position was that you could not legally modify a firearm to comply with 922 and then sell it. Thats incorrect you can absolutly do that. Thats a completely different animal from building multiple guns and selling them as a means of substantial income. I never said anything about that. Yes there have been people prosecuted for selling large personal collections of guns or trading and selling large numbers of guns but its rare.
Your tying to find some angle here because you see this shotgun with a pistol grip and you think its a Saiga and that its somehow illegal because it was modified. Your making vast leaps of logic based on incorrect application of the law. I dont know what the goal here is other than to try and deflect some of the anger people are directing at Semi auto rifles. Your going to great lenghts to turn this shotgun into some blackmarket illegal weapon. Its not. There is nothing illegal about that gun as long as it has fewer than 10 imported parts. Provided CT law has no specific ban that encompasses the Saiga there is nothing illegal about the Lanza's purchasing that firearm with modifications via private sale. Who says they even purchased it with modifications. If it is a Saiga maybe they did the modifications themselves?



I am very much aware that pre ban has nothing to do with Saigas. I was buying rifles back when the AWB went into place in 94. 922 however has everything to do with "preban". Again as I said my pre ban SKS cannot be modified unless I completely modify it to have fewer than 10 imported parts. At that point it complies with 922 and can be legally transfered. The Saiga as imported also cannot be modified unless it is completely modified. So you have to get the foreign parts count down to 10 or less. Because the gun has 13 or 14 parts depending on the model that can be accomplished rather simply follow the instructions listed here on this site. These guys sell the parts to make the conversions yourself. They rather clearly spell out how to accomplish a 10 or less parts count.

www.mississippiautoarms.com...

I'm just speculating here, but regarding the different license plates on the black Honda(s)...

Isn't it possible that the one which was photographed being taken away on the flat-bed, belonged to someone else entirely (most likely the guy already mentioned in the police radio broadcasts) and that it is completely unconnected to the Lanzas, apart from being parked at the School on the same morning?

The police cordoned off the area as part of their operation, presumably did a routine search of the vehicles there, and found a couple of rifles/shotguns in the trunk of this one.
So, made the weapons safe, then confiscated them, and the car to establish whether it was connected to the shootings or not.

That could explain the "mix-up" between that car and Mrs Lanzas "similar" car, the two license plates, and the confusion over whether the rifle(s) from the car trunk actually belonged to the Lanzas or not.

My main concern with the official story still hinges on the fact that ALL of the early reports (that I heard) stated that TWO HANDGUNS were used. The shooter was seen with two handguns (and only two handguns). They even named the models used. It was only later, that an assault rifle was mentioned?

I've probably missed the explanation for that, and I'd appreciate it if someone could fill me in.

regards
GTD

reply to post by GrantedBail


Cool. We all have as well as I have my own opinions which I put in my thread also. I am looking nightly and will find something. Simply finding the outline of how to attack with pictures was enough to let me know there is more here, if not just in Newtown, than we know. There are too many coincidences with past attacks and the mall shooting. Wondering if there is also anything to do with the Holmes trial and the warrant seal. this would protect an investigation if there is one active because you can speculate but not prove.

School for everybody starts Monday so lets hope no new gun owners decide to be trouble.

and, there sure as hell looks like 2 weapons in the Honda.

MODS: Note I have blacked out plate# except for one digit on 2nd image to confirm same car. If too much then can just leave redundant links to sources. Thanks!

Summary: OP showed the back of car and it looks like the plate# is not the same as the one starting with 8xx-xxx (and I agreed, though if I would go cross-eyed I could force it to look the same, but the low res image was hard to confirm either way).

The photographer of the photo was nice enough to provide a rear shot of the car as it was being towed. It is not the same shot as the low res shot but still seems to prove they are the same car because of a feature (see below):

LOW RES of car parked (tag blacked out): from source www.timesunion.com...
Notice the red circle and then move onto next image.

CLOSE UP of rear car as being towed (tag blacked out except the 8): from source twitter.com... (and a BIG THANK YOU to the photographer for sharing this!).
Now I left the '8' exposed to confirm we are talking about the same car that has been associated with the shooting. Notice the red circle again.

While not the same shots, that blue sticker is in the same location in both shots. To me this is the same car - the same car parked and the same care being towed. That low res image is hard to confirm one way or another but that little blue sticker in the same spot helps to firm it up I think. Hope this brings closure to one more gray area of this whole tragedy. If you think otherwise please share.

In a rush as typing this so sorry if it is not very clear. Can clarify later if needed.

reply to post by ratboy


Nice job Ratboy! I became convinced the other day that they were the same Honda because someone had used filtering on the front plate of the car on the flat bed and it looked the same as the blown up plate. This confirms that and puts the "two" hondas to sleep now.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by ratboy

 

Nice job Ratboy! I became convinced the other day that they were the same Honda because someone had used filtering on the front plate of the car on the flat bed and it looked the same as the blown up plate. This confirms that and puts the "two" hondas to sleep now.

That was me in this posting www.abovetopsecret.com...
but the posting with the comparision of the front and rear plate image was deleted by a mod, so probably only a few of you could have seen it when it was still on the site here.

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


I too had this same thought about two cars being mixed up and one just happened to have a couple of "hunting" firearms, we all know how the media likes to report things and present it as fact when they have no clue. But then I realized that this was the car that was parked at the front entrance, the only vehicle that would be parked in that location is most likely whomever the perpetrator(s) are (or who they want you to think it is).

I too am also Curious as to how we went from handguns only to an assault rifle without any questions. I don't think that would be easily confused by witnesses (unless you don't take statements from witness and you only present the story as you want it to be presented). I wonder if disinformation and manipulation can be so blatant IMO, this makes me curious about the ME staffer who allowed their significant other to view Lanza's body (was this a planted story to secure the believe that Lanza is the perpetrator?).

Originally posted by nightstalker78
Talk about paranoid thinking.Why is it so hard to believe,in this day and age,that it's so hard to accomplish? Especially with easy access to guns? Anyone who has access to any kind of gun can pull this off without any outside help.

I'm usually an Occam’s Razor type of guy, and I use that many times to suggest how things spiral out of control to fill in the "what ifs". Though I'm not against the lone gunman scenario, I do find it not so easy as you suggest.

Think of it this way. I could be making home made bombs right now to use tomorrow in Any town,USA.I could also be thinking about shooting some place up.Who's going to stop me if they don't know? I don't need the goverments help in planning something like that if my heart was set on doing it.

So we need two things here "know how" and an extreme nature to actually pull it off. I'm not suggesting the Government is involved, I'm suggesting they are covering up a lot of details to ensure it is only a lone crazy gunman. The end result is we get very disorganized conflicting information that drifts off to no new information at all.

Fact is,it's a hell of a lot easier to pull off then you might think.

I have a lot of military experience...do you? Have you ever had a person in your sites, or watched people die around you, or worse, as in this case, die around you by your own hand. It is not easy....

I find it extremely compelling that he was able to enter the school in the first place. Think about it, he goes to his Mom's house gets her guns and kills her, then he needs to drive to the school...that is a lot of time for one so motivated on the purpose to kill all he can then kill himself.

To pull this off is rare to say in the least...and requires an extremely warped person that maintains their focus to the end....I'm not saying that cannot be done, but a small 20 year old autistic kid with basically zero reason's or more importantly experiences to push him in that direction. With that said I find it much easier to mentor/program/lead a kid like him to accomplish this than do it all on his own. This is not something where he woke up and said to himself "I'm going to kill my mom and shoot up the school". There was planning over a period of time, and that I find not really doable with this kid's disabilities.

reply to post by ratboy


Great research, so we can lose this side of story as well.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
This is not something where he woke up and said to himself "I'm going to kill my mom and shoot up the school". There was planning over a period of time, and that I find not really doable with this kid's disabilities.

I agree....I doubt he shot anyone....more likely a patsy....from what I have read about the shot grouping alone tells me this kid did not do this just from playing some video games. This was an expert....possibly trained assassin.
Have any opinion about the end the life of Adam comment on the Newtown radio recording?

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


On the police recordings an officer says at one point: “We do have multiple weapons, including one rifle and shotgun.”

I didn't write down a time notation, but it is on the spot evidence confirming the existence of long guns and not just pistols that day.

reply to post by Mysticalsea


Yes, I heard that too. That is the single best piece of evidence we have, I don't give a flying what the cops said afterwards. Those recordings show and illustrate what was taking place in real time.

reply to post by Mysticalsea


If I remember right he says ......be advised he should have multiple weapons including long rifle and shot gun.
The reason he says this is because he sees long rifle and shotgun shells in the school.

reply to post by SMOKINGGUN2012


OK I am willing to look at that and it makes sense. Are you suggesting Adam had different clips?