Dried Squash Holds Headless King's Blood

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posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 07:48 AM
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Greetings, ATS!

Once again, another fabulous story from my favorite website, Discovery News. Interestingly enough, I'm currently working my way through a biography about Marie Antoinette, so talk about synchronicity!




Two centuries after the French people beheaded Louis XVI and dipped their handkerchiefs in his blood, scientists believe they have authenticated the remains of one such rag kept as a revolutionary souvenir. Researchers have been trying for years to verify a claim imprinted on an ornately decorated calabash that it contains a sample of the blood of the French king guillotined in Paris on January 21, 1793. The dried, hollowed squash is adorned with portraits of revolutionary heroes and the text: "On January 21, Maximilien Bourdaloue dipped his handkerchief in the blood of Louis XVI after his decapitation". He is then believed to have placed the fabric in the gourd, and had it embellished.


For a long time, scientists wanted to test the fabric for DNA, but had one huge problem...nothing to compare the DNA to, since the familial line ended shortly thereafter.

Well, apparently scientists managed to positively identify the severed head of King Henri IV (kept as a souvenir and sold, traded, and displayed since 1610). Since Louis and Henri shared a common ancestor, scientists used Henri's DNA and compared it to the blood found in the gourd.

Here's a part that confuses me:


The 2010 study, however, found no DNA and its findings have been contested by some. With the new evidence, "it is about 250 times more likely that the (owners of the) head and the blood are paternally related, than unrelated," co-author Carles Lalueza Fox of the Institut de Biologia Evolutiva in Barcelona said by email. Taken together with all the physical and forensic evidence, historical records and folklore, it would be "extremely surprising" if the remains did not belong to the two assassinated monarchs, he added. "One can say that there is absolutely no doubt anymore," about the authenticity of the mummified head, added Charlier.


I'm not sure how they managed to compare DNA if none was found in 2010....unless new DNA was recently recovered? Anyway....just thought I'd share a rather macabre story.

It has been brought to my attention that another member already posted a thread on this subject. You can find that original thread here.
edit on 2-1-2013 by smyleegrl because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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Interesting find, Thanks. I wonder if the govt will step in and confiscate it for "historical" reasons.
If they want it, I think it only fair they outbid any other buyer. That's if the owner wants to sell.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


A bloody shame, this. To put a King's blood in a gourd, my word, the gall of that personage. I would have used a tophat, and worn it around town and to the races.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:07 AM
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Once again, another failed search, and the original post gets 0 flags, while this one gets 2.

Original thread by member omegalogos original


SS



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 



Explanation: S&F!

And ..

reply to post by Spike Spiegle
 


Explanation: St*rred!

Please let us let nobody loose their head over 2 threads ok ... it is well within ATS rules for 2 members to make a thread on the same issue but with different twists ok i.e . different forum placement.

This thread is in the science forum and focuses of the DNA forensics.

My thread is in the Off Topics forums in general chit chat and has no specific focus at all.

Personal Disclosure: I am glad that this is getting wider attention and I thank both of you.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
Once again, another failed search, and the original post gets 0 flags, while this one gets 2.

Original thread by member omegalogos original


SS


I apologize. I did do a search, though. Mods, feel free to close this thread.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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This has to be the strangest thread title in a long time. What I want to know is where did they find said king's head if it has been changing hands since the 16th C?



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


OL's title is the same as yours and I just did a search and the results show OL's thread clear as day, I don't what kind of search you used, but it seems not be the same one I'm using...

SS
edit on 2-1-2013 by Spike Spiegle because: results*


Unless you are accusing me of lying, your continued focus on this has no point. Unless, of course, you're getting some kind of superiority complex for pointing out others' faults and mistakes.

I used the search. It did not show up. I do not know why. End of search conversation.

I have apologized to OL and requested this thread be closed.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


I simply am very surprised that you failed to see OL's thread, when it showed up in the first 3 results when I used your very same title for my search.

That is all.


SS



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


I simply am very surprised that you failed to see OL's thread, when it showed up in the first 3 results when I used your very same title for my search.

That is all.


SS


If you cared so much about ATS rules you wouldn't be repeatedly breaking ATS rules with your off topic posts, would you?

The hypocrisy



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:47 AM
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Anyway, back on topic:



I'm not sure how they managed to compare DNA if none was found in 2010....unless new DNA was recently recovered? Anyway....just thought I'd share a rather macabre story.


It's my understanding that the DNA samples were taken from the dried squash (lol!) and the handkerchief with the head being authenticated circumstantially. I could be wrong, the article was quite confusing to follow.



posted on Jan, 2 2013 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by john_bmth
 


Yes, it was confusing. But still interesting....makes you wonder about the mindset of someone who would think someone's blood was a souvenir worthy of keeping.

But I guess we do this to certain extent today. Like when a rock star wipes his sweaty face on a shirt and tosses it to the crowd.

Ewwwww.



posted on Jan, 3 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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Oh Ewwwww that's just nasty. Keeping some guys head and passing it around like some kind of tourists token. Gourds with blood in em! Just ewwwwwww


What the hell people?




But I guess we do this to certain extent today. Like when a rock star wipes his sweaty face on a shirt and tosses it to the crowd.


That's nasty too. Keep your BO and sweat funk to yourselves people ewwww
edit on 3-1-2013 by antonia because: just ewwww
edit on 3-1-2013 by antonia because: opps
edit on 3-1-2013 by antonia because: argh





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