US: "Far more gun-related killings than ANY other developed country"

One easy way to decline these numbers, make drugs legal and the sales legal, a lot a very large portion of gun violence is gang related, what do the gangs do for money, sell drugs and fight over the turf their selling their drugs on, end the war on drugs, half of those numbers would be history. The other thing to do, is care for the mentally unsound people correctly like right as soon as it is seen in the person treat it, if they refuse meds, put them into loony bins like they used to do (and there were less murders overall in those days where they'd lock you up because you were mentally unstable and refused meds.)

You can have an extremely secure area, with no guns or weapons, and people will still murder each other. What is the murder / assault rate in prison?

Secondly, if we are going to leave out undeveloped countries, we cannot include said murderers from undeveloped countries; i.e. illegal aliens such as those from Mexico and other South American countries.

Thirdly, these "undeveloped countries" are older than the United States. Take Russia for example, they have put people in space for pete's sake! There may be parts that are unstable and undeveloped, but come on, they should be included (would not make the figures look good, though). How about Brazil? Have you ever been to Rio de Janero? Looks pretty developed to me. I hear a lot of talk about how fabulous Hugo Chavez is by a lot of liberals, but I guess he heads an undeveloped country, so let's not talk about how high the numbers are there.

Anyone can make numbers look good with a strong bias and a little cherrypicking.

How about we judge this according to the population of the countries, or look at individual states, Australia approximately 23 million.

America population 312 million.

Population of California is over 37 million for instance.

reply to post by SpearMint


Guess you don't know how to sort spreadsheet data correctly. Are Brazil, Venezuala, South Africa, Argentina, The Bahamas, etc. count as third-world countries? Look at all the '3rd world countries' below us on the list. Learn to use the data correctly. Sheesh.

Originally posted by jtma508
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Guess you don't know how to sort spreadsheet data correctly. Are Brazil, Venezuala, South Africa, Argentina, The Bahamas, etc. count as third-world countries? Look at all the '3rd world countries' below us on the list. Learn to use the data correctly. Sheesh.

You're the first person to mention 3rd world countries, I certainly didn't.

And here we see the absolute certainty of ignorance.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Of course it does, other weapons are much more easily stopped for starters, I don't care what Harvard says because without actually observing it happening their study is flawed. What you're saying is Americans are naturally murderous animals, because the gun homicide vs other homicide rate is WAY out of proportion compared to countries that don't have a lot of guns, other homicides are quite similar per capita whilst gun homicides are through the roof. It quite obviously plays a huge part, and that's not counting the rampages that simply wouldn't have happened without a legally owned gun.

What's it like to be so wrong yet so sure? Is it like some intoxicating wine?

Whether gun availability is viewed as a cause or as a mere coincidence, the long term macrocosmic evidence is that gun ownership spread widely throughout societies consistently correlates with stable or
declining murder rates. Whether causative or not, the consistent international pattern is that more guns equal less murder and other violent crime. Even if one is inclined to think that gun availability is an important factor, the available international data cannot be squared with the mantra that more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death. Rather, if firearms availability does matter, the data consistently show that the way it matters is that more guns equal less violent crime.

After youve spent millions of dollars and thousands of man hours on your own study you can get back to me.

Until then you're apparently just another delusional zealot who will damn reality to the end of time.

At this point it's safe to lump you in with "flat earthers".

I am assuming you want some kind of gun legislation passed. So my question is this:

What has the government done for you to trust them?

reply to post by SpearMint

It quite obviously plays a huge part, and that's not counting the rampages that simply wouldn't have happened without a legally owned gun.

Sooo…let me get this straight; you’re saying that criminals (AKA the bad guys) would not perform mass shootings because it was illegal to carry/own/have a gun?

I don’t think so scooter.

That logic is flawed.

Thanks,
Blend57

reply to post by TheMindWar


I don't believe that... I believe that we are born pure. If you are a parent then you know exactly what I mean, no matter how much they keep you up at night, hehe.

Yeah, some have the misfortune of growing up in slums but where someone lives or the life someone has had isn't the sum of their character nor of their moral values. Sure, some of them will break but some of them will come out of it stronger and wiser than most rich people who never had to struggle for anything in their lives.

Now I'm not arguing that guns are the entirety of the problem. Class war and what I've come to know as class segregation is the number one problem. Greed, hate and envy. What is needed is a school system based on common sense which emphasizes love and respect. Unfortunately our kids are taught to compete as soon as they as sent to school... compete for better grades, better positions in team sports, better friends and then that carries on to better jobs, better salary and better everything.

But those problems are common in all developed countries, what sets the US apart (and what this thread is about) is the amount of gun related homicides compared to other developed countries around the world. You already have tons of pissed off people, so why the hell would you want to hand them guns to make their vengeance so much easier? Taking the guns away isn't a solution to the global problem of hate but it is a step in the right direction in reducing the amount of casualties from these people gone mad.

Gun's should not be banned but tighter regulations should be set up to acquire them.
Also those who apply for a gun should be tested for any previous/current mental illness.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
And here we see the absolute certainty of ignorance.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Of course it does, other weapons are much more easily stopped for starters, I don't care what Harvard says because without actually observing it happening their study is flawed. What you're saying is Americans are naturally murderous animals, because the gun homicide vs other homicide rate is WAY out of proportion compared to countries that don't have a lot of guns, other homicides are quite similar per capita whilst gun homicides are through the roof. It quite obviously plays a huge part, and that's not counting the rampages that simply wouldn't have happened without a legally owned gun.

What's it like to be so wrong yet so sure? Is it like some intoxicating wine?

Whether gun availability is viewed as a cause or as a mere coincidence, the long term macrocosmic evidence is that gun ownership spread widely throughout societies consistently correlates with stable or
declining murder rates. Whether causative or not, the consistent international pattern is that more guns equal less murder and other violent crime. Even if one is inclined to think that gun availability is an important factor, the available international data cannot be squared with the mantra that more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death. Rather, if firearms availability does matter, the data consistently show that the way it matters is that more guns equal less violent crime.

After youve spent millions of dollars and thousands of man hours on your own study you can get back to me.

Until then you're apparently just another delusional zealot who will damn reality to the end of time.

You're so sure that I'm wrong yet you provide no proof of it. Interesting. I'm still sure that you are wrong.

What you're saying is "Americans are just homicidal animals regardless of the weapons available". It's either that or guns are the problem, and although a lot of Americans are brought up in a very violent setting that promotes gun use, I don't believe they are quite as animalistic as you suggest (and that IS what you're suggesting by denying guns increase the murder rate whether you realise it or not).

Originally posted by Cocasinpry
reply to post by TheMindWar

 

I don't believe that... I believe that we are born pure. If you are a parent then you know exactly what I mean, no matter how much they keep you up at night, hehe.

Yeah, some have the misfortune of growing up in slums but where someone lives or the life someone has had isn't the sum of their character nor of their moral values. Sure, some of them will break but some of them will come out of it stronger and wiser than most rich people who never had to struggle for anything in their lives.

Now I'm not arguing that guns are the entirety of the problem. Class war and what I've come to know as class segregation is the number one problem. Greed, hate and envy. What is needed is a school system based on common sense which emphasizes love and respect. Unfortunately our kids are taught to compete as soon as they as sent to school... compete for better grades, better positions in team sports, better friends and then that carries on to better jobs, better salary and better everything.

But those problems are common in all developed countries, what sets the US apart (and what this thread is about) is the amount of gun related homicides compared to other developed countries around the world. You already have tons of pissed off people, so why the hell would you want to hand them guns to make their vengeance so much easier? Taking the guns away isn't a solution to the global problem of hate but it is a step in the right direction in reducing the amount of casualties from these people gone mad.

reply to post by artnut


It's per country, not per citizen..

reply to post by Stormdancer777


It's per capita, not per population..

Originally posted by SpearMint

You're so sure that I'm wrong yet you provide no proof of it. Interesting. I'm still sure that you are wrong.

What you're saying is "Americans are just homicidal animals regardless of the weapons available". It's either that or guns are the problem, and although a lot of Americans are brought up in a very violent setting that promotes gun use, I don't believe they are quite as animalistic as you suggest (and that IS what you're suggesting by denying guns increase the murder rate whether you realise it or not).

Are you really saying I offer no proof while at the same time saying "I dont care what Harvard says" and ignoring the study I have brought to your attention?

Wow.

Originally posted by blend57
reply to post by SpearMint

 

It quite obviously plays a huge part, and that's not counting the rampages that simply wouldn't have happened without a legally owned gun.

Sooo…let me get this straight; you’re saying that criminals (AKA the bad guys) would not perform mass shootings because it was illegal to carry/own/have a gun?

I don’t think so scooter.

That logic is flawed.

Thanks,
Blend57

You're implying that criminals aren't citizens. The mass shootings are nearly always performed by an otherwise "normal" person with a legally obtained gun. This is true, your knowledge flawed.

Originally posted by shivaX
Gun's should not be banned but tighter regulations should be set up to acquire them.
Also those who apply for a gun should be tested for any previous/current mental illness.

Now that's common sense.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by SpearMint

You're so sure that I'm wrong yet you provide no proof of it. Interesting. I'm still sure that you are wrong.

What you're saying is "Americans are just homicidal animals regardless of the weapons available". It's either that or guns are the problem, and although a lot of Americans are brought up in a very violent setting that promotes gun use, I don't believe they are quite as animalistic as you suggest (and that IS what you're suggesting by denying guns increase the murder rate whether you realise it or not).

Are you really saying I offer no proof while at the same time saying "I dont care what Harvard says" and ignoring the study I have brought to your attention?

Wow.

A Harvard study (that you haven't actually linked to) is not even remotely proof, a university is not all-knowing and it's not something you can disprove without seeing it actually happen. So yes, I'm saying you've offered absolutely no proof.

Originally posted by Cocasinpry
reply to post by TheMindWar

 

I don't believe that... I believe that we are born pure. If you are a parent then you know exactly what I mean, no matter how much they keep you up at night, hehe.

Yeah, some have the misfortune of growing up in slums but where someone lives or the life someone has had isn't the sum of their character nor of their moral values. Sure, some of them will break but some of them will come out of it stronger and wiser than most rich people who never had to struggle for anything in their lives.

Now I'm not arguing that guns are the entirety of the problem. Class war and what I've come to know as class segregation is the number one problem. Greed, hate and envy. What is needed is a school system based on common sense which emphasizes love and respect. Unfortunately our kids are taught to compete as soon as they as sent to school... compete for better grades, better positions in team sports, better friends and then that carries on to better jobs, better salary and better everything.

But those problems are common in all developed countries, what sets the US apart (and what this thread is about) is the amount of gun related homicides compared to other developed countries around the world. You already have tons of pissed off people, so why the hell would you want to hand them guns to make their vengeance so much easier? Taking the guns away isn't a solution to the global problem of hate but it is a step in the right direction in reducing the amount of casualties from these people gone mad.

If one checks I am sure one will find that any gun crime epidemics stem from deprived areas. But lets not try to look for excuses for gun control. Lets look at it from a far more sensible and logical approach.

For one to ask the government to implement new gun legislation then one must be willing to trust the government. So my fundememtal question remains,

what has the government done for people to trust them?

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by SpearMint

You're so sure that I'm wrong yet you provide no proof of it. Interesting. I'm still sure that you are wrong.

What you're saying is "Americans are just homicidal animals regardless of the weapons available". It's either that or guns are the problem, and although a lot of Americans are brought up in a very violent setting that promotes gun use, I don't believe they are quite as animalistic as you suggest (and that IS what you're suggesting by denying guns increase the murder rate whether you realise it or not).

Are you really saying I offer no proof while at the same time saying "I dont care what Harvard says" and ignoring the study I have brought to your attention?

Wow.

A Harvard study (that you haven't actually linked to) is not even remotely proof, a university is not all-knowing and it's not something you can disprove without seeing it actually happen. So yes, I'm saying you've offered absolutely no proof.

edit on 2-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

It's in my first post chief.

Here it is again: Would Banning Guns reduce Murder and Suicide?

If you need further hand holding feel free to ask.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by minnow

 

Yes but what about undeveloped countries? This is BS to put it plainly, because I am sure there are third world countries that have higher instances of gun related deaths especially right in Iraq Iran and Syria.
And they're unarmed citizens being killed by rebels and by their own government. This is such a stupid article, we also have the highest population.

edit on 2-1-2013 by ldyserenity because: add

The US isn't an undeveloped country, so it doesn't matter. You want to be compared to undeveloped countries?

It's not a stupid article, and your attitude is part of the problem, you refuse to accept the facts. Population is irrelevant because it's per capita (You don't have the highest population anyway).

edit on 2-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

The facts are that gun control does not make people safer. Also it is disingenuous to talk about "gun deaths" and ignore the overal murder rate. The reason why those with an agenda do this, is because they would lose traction if they did not play this particular shell game.