Originally posted by ANOK
I never said capitalists were evil, please.
Sorry but I have yet to find where you DO say what you believe in, I only see what you say does not exist
or changed into something you
are unwilling to define. What ARE capitalists if not evil, in your opinion? I gather that you believe socialism is good but you did not say which
definition of it. Original definition? Sorry I am not a linguist who studies the evolution of words. That is why I offered to use whatever definition
It is a known fact that left wing terms have been appropriated by the state... You have to understand the history of the 1800's working class
to understand how the terms they coined have been changed, and why.
You are hiding behind terminology. This "class" and "terms" is extremely vague, covers 100 years and in which country? Just say what you mean, or
drop it. Again, I told you I am happy to use your definition. But you must give me one.
“libertarian was a term created by nineteenth-century European anarchists not by contemporary American right-wing proprietarians.” Murray
Bookchin The Ecology of Freedom p. 57
So what does it mean for you
, if you plan to use to use it, in this discussion?
Were we talking about the occupy movement?... Angry protests have happened for centuries.
Yes I was, because it was relevant to the point I was making about how "angry protests" can be avoided.
... I would make a very long list of capitalist organizations and their dirty tactics. Or just use Hitler and Lenin to demonize government.
See how that doesn't work?
Capitalists still not evil? Then most governments (other than Hitler and Lenin) are good? Nobody else using dirty tricks? Again, you say what
, but not what is.
Say what you mean so we can have a discussion about your ideas, not about
People are motivated to take care of themselves, and that is all that is needed. It's no one's business to motivate people to do anything
I repeat my question, if ownership is not necessary, are you suggesting that you can eat food that you do not own? If it is no one's business to
motivate people, then it is no one's business to complain about the economic system, poverty, working conditions. Because things only improve when
people are motivated
to improve them.
Socialism is the workers common ownership. Meaning if you can work and want to work you can... cooperative
businesses where all the workers equally own the business, and all share equally in it's product.
And if others do not
want to work you will work for them? And if they are slow you will make up for it? And if they are lazy, and if they are
late or absent, or if they are often sick, and if they do not learn and if they make mistakes? And what if you get tired of working for all the
If I use the modern common definitions what I am saying would make no sense. The original true definitions are still relevant, and if
you understood those definitions everything makes sense. I understand your reluctance to accept the definitions...
I told you clearly, repeatedly, I am not reluctant to use any definition, you must give them to me, to be able to use them. This is YOUR threat, why
did you not start out with defining the relevant words of which you do not want to use the common definitions?
People always talk about social conditioning, well this is an example of it my friend... Just like you are conditioned to think you are free.
And to love god, and to obey...
I agree that we are being conditioned but - so what? How does relate to your question? What is Freedom?
edit on 1/7/2013 by ANOK because: (no reason given)