Virtual cash exchange becomes bank (BITCOIN This is BIG news)

reply to post by tothetenthpower

And Bitcoin falls into the hands of the banking cartels.

Well done Bitcoin, you're now irelevant.

It wont actually be a bank in the normal sense. They just have the authority now to do things like issue bank cards and other mainstream bank stuff. And I mean no one is forced to use their service, it's only for people who want the advantages which can be offered by their bank-like status, such as more legal protection of their savings etc. The bitcoin network still remains under completely decentralized control.

We're announcing today that Bitcoin-Central.net is getting, through a partnership with Aqoba, allowed to operate like a bank, (or more precisely like a PSP which is basically the same as a bank, just without the debt-money issuing part).

bitcointalk.org...

reply to post by mee30


I was stating you can use those sites to exchange bit coins for actual cash. You were stating that wasn't possible. Hence why I posted the link. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.

It will alienate the vast majority of the Bitcoin userbase. Regardless of the reality if this is good or not, the community will see this as falling in line with the banking cartels and will further drive the market down, not up.

Governments, including mine are developping crypto currency in order to combat the rising popularity of bit coin. it will not be able to compete with other government crypto currencies. They will manipulate the market and inflate or devalue the currency in order to shut down competition.

~Tenth

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Thank you, you said it better than I could... For a minute I thought I was going crazy! lol

What fantastic news for bitcoin, this really blew me away!

Btw any idea of what bitcoin-central are like? Ever used them etc?

Also this is a silly question but what is a sepa wire? I could google it but thought maybe you could explain it easily?

reply to post by mee30


Wasn't Bitcoin recently busted for being a scam?

Bitcoin 'Pirate' scandal: SEC steps in amid allegations that the whole thing was a Ponzi scheme

blogs.telegraph.co.uk... -scheme/

A suspected Ponzi scheme involving the online currency Bitcoin has unravelled, and I can reveal that it has drawn the attention of the American Securities Exchange Commission (SEC).

Bitcoin is a libertarian's dream – and a government's nightmare. An online, virtual currency created in 2008, it is unpoliced by any central authority, almost immune to money-laundering rules, and incredibly hard to track. It's a huge boon to those suspicious of governments or big banks, and has a legion of vocal advocates online, who love both the idea of an Austrian-economics inspired currency immune to meddling politicians, and the open-source spirit of the cryptography software required to "mine" the currency.

I like the idea of Bit Coins but as always corruption finds its way in and now they're joining the banks? Good lord....

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by frazzle

 

Yes there are similar systems here called time bank and they are all fine and dandy but no good for the wider world! Great locally though and I support them a hundred percent...

Okay, glad to hear that.

Unfortunately, I don't see how any currency, be it metal or paper, that won acceptance on a wide scale wouldn't become as manipulated and debauched as the US dollar over time. As you say, government has already gotten its mitts on bitcoin simply by granting a right.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I was stating you can use those sites to exchange bit coins for actual cash. You were stating that wasn't possible. Hence why I posted the link. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.

Most certainly, I even said that I had made some money with intersango! What part gave you that impression? Threw me for a loop! lol

It will alienate the vast majority of the Bitcoin userbase. Regardless of the reality if this is good or not, the community will see this as falling in line with the banking cartels and will further drive the market down, not up.

Pure speculation and sop far I see no signs of what you are referring to, about 5 months ago bitcoin was at about 3 quid and now it is 8-10 depending on which site you are on... Also remember this is a first step, when more and more companies get onboard it will go crazy! Why would the hardcore care as they can still operate as they are now... And they don't have to fear bitcoin getting shut down! Herd immunity like I said...

Governments, including mine are developping crypto currency in order to combat the rising popularity of bit coin. it will not be able to compete with other government crypto currencies. They will manipulate the market and inflate or devalue the currency in order to shut down competition.

Bitcoin is getting a great head start, competition is great so bring on the other cryptocurrencies, I mean there are already others! Bitcoin is already outperforming every government currency, by a long way!!! lol

reply to post by Swills

Wasn't Bitcoin recently busted for being a scam?

Bitcoin has had many such allegations thrown at it, this is not the first... But hey, bitcoin has weathered every storm and is still going strong! Everyone said it was done after the mt gox scandal... Where are those people now...

And what is all this joining the banks? They just have bank like status and their customers have some protection... And as already mentioned you do not have to use bitcoin central... There are many to choose from! Or you don't have to use any at all... What has changed for bitcoin other than the ability to actually use them to buy things? (yes I know there are a few things already but this will really push it along).

reply to post by frazzle

Unfortunately, I don't see how any currency, be it metal or paper, that won acceptance on a wide scale wouldn't become as manipulated and debauched as the US dollar over time. As you say, government has already gotten its mitts on bitcoin simply by granting a right.

See I don't quite see it like that... I have no doubt that in time it could get corrupted, and probably will... But at least we will have a time where it will be wonderful rather than the bottomless pit we are in now... Then when bitcoin gets too corrupted we switch again! But to be honest I think bitcoin will last a good while, it has weathered a few major storms already...

The other good thing about bitcoin is that no-one owns it! You can make an exchange tomorrow if you like! So we will have great competition rather than a monopoly... Also there will be other competing cryptocurrencies as the other poster mentioned.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by frazzle

 

Unfortunately, I don't see how any currency, be it metal or paper, that won acceptance on a wide scale wouldn't become as manipulated and debauched as the US dollar over time. As you say, government has already gotten its mitts on bitcoin simply by granting a right.

See I don't quite see it like that... I have no doubt that in time it could get corrupted, and probably will... But at least we will have a time where it will be wonderful rather than the bottomless pit we are in now... Then when bitcoin gets too corrupted we switch again!

What both of you don't seem to realize is that bitcoin is designed as a decentralized network exactly because of the corruption and monopolizing you speak of. There isn't a Government on Earth with enough resources to gain control of the bitcoin network. The decentralized P2P network follows built-in rules which ensures that it's virtually impossible to create fake bitcoins and to dictate exactly how often new bitcoins are created (aka "mined") by adjusting the difficulty of the mining process (the harder it is the more computing power required).

Eventually we will reach a point where all the bitcoins have been created and the money supply will stop growing. So it doesn't matter if a Government or a bank has the desire to manipulate the bitcoin currency, the fact is they can't. They can only work within the framework and rules set by the existing P2P network, because no one can break those rules. This new "bitcoin bank" has absolutely no new magical powers to alter the bitcoin currency in any way.

Sure, it is possible for a bank to hold bitcoins and practice a simple form of fractional reserve banking in the same way they could practice fractional reserve banking with reserves of gold. However, that would require the use of bank notes and/or credit accounts etc. What they cannot do with bitcoin is create new coins out of thin air when ever they like and they cannot be created and destroyed in exchange for debt.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

What both of you don't seem to realize is that bitcoin is designed as a decentralized network exactly because of the corruption and monopolizing you speak of. There isn't a Government on Earth with enough resources to gain control of the bitcoin network. The entire decentralized P2P network follows built-in rules which ensures that it's virtually impossible to create fake bitcoins and to dictate exactly how often new bitcoins are created (aka "mined") by adjusting the difficulty of the mining process (the harder it is the more computing power required).

I understand this very well, what makes you think I do not? I'm very well versed on bitcoin, I've been following it a couple years now... But I am not so silly to say that it could NEVER be manipulated, even if it is not by the same means as today? Maybe some chap 10, 20 or even 30 years from now comes up with a clever scam or something, you just don't know... But like I said it is a step forward and in the future I'm sure something else will take it's place if the needs must...

Eventually we will reach a point where all the bitcoins have been created and the money supply will stop growing. So it doesn't matter if a Government or a bank has the desire to manipulate the currency, the fact is they can't. They can only work within the framework and rules set by the existing P2P network, because no one can break those rules. This new "bitcoin bank" has absolutely no new magical powers to alter the bitcoin currency in any way.

I agree with you but like I said you can not predict unknowns but hey anyway I trust bitcoin far more than our current system! lol

Sure, it is possible for a bank to hold bitcoins and practice a simple form of fractional reserve banking in the same way they could practice fractional reserve banking with reserves of gold. However, that would require the use of bank notes and/or credit accounts etc. What they cannot do with bitcoin is create new coins out of thin air when ever they like and they cannot be created and destroyed in exchange for debt.

Agreed, but just never say never, that is all...

Anyway I really can't believe this news got such a cold shoulder! It is like people don't want to progress or escape this monetary hell hole! Yet they moan about the system all the time, lol...

reply to post by mee30

I understand this very well, what makes you think I do not? I'm very well versed on bitcoin, I've been following it a couple years now... But I am not so silly to say that it could NEVER be manipulated, even if it is not by the same means as today?

I wasn't really directing my last post at you, but I thought if you really understood that point then you would have explained that as a counter-argument to what frazzle said. But in any case you're correct, it's not 100% incorruptible, nothing is. I wasn't saying that, I was saying it's designed to be extremely hard for centralized entities to manipulate it.

I should of included this in the op but only just found it... Here is a message from the owners of bitcoin-central... Take a read and see what you think then...

bitcointalk.org...

It is a real shame that this thread had to die so soon with so many negative responses..

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


To be honest I didn't want the thread to be a fight over the legitimacy of bitcoin, initially I thought it would be a celebration thread for this monumental achievement, besides it has been argued to the death...

But any way I can't wait to see what the future holds, I was having loads of fun on intersango but then the UK banks stopped it all! I had to take my money out... Now it seems to be all about this sepa transfers, I've done a little reading on it and it is just an international transfer and my bank charges 9.50 a time!

Cant wait till the banks can be done away with!

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

There isn't a Government on Earth with enough resources to gain control of the bitcoin network.

There's a lot I don't understand about Bitcoins. What I'm sayin' is that if government has the authority to GRANT permission for something, they also have the authority to revoke that permission.

For instance, gold was defined as legal tender in the states by the founders, yet FDR confiscated the gold.

reply to post by frazzle

There's a lot I don't understand about Bitcoins. What I'm sayin' is that if government has the authority to GRANT permission for something, they also have the authority to revoke that permission. For instance, gold was defined as legal tender in the states by the founders, yet FDR confiscated the gold.

I'm sure in some countries it could well become illegal, but that doesn't stop bitcoin because it is a world wide affair and policing it would be near on impossible anyway... How would they know you have a bitcoin wallet on your PC or on paper? There was a risk that bitcoin could be banned from the get go!

This is a great sign though and if you can take a minute to check out the other link I provided... It is a great thread, just reading the comments now... I think you will learn a lot from it.

reply to post by mee30

... policing it would be near on impossible anyway... How would they know you have a bitcoin wallet on your PC or on paper?

Not trying to be argumentative but unless they're being traded ONLY outside normal venues, corporations would do the policing, just like they do with job applicants and employee payroll. Of course that's mostly true with alternative local currencies, as well.

I'll take a look at your link tomorrow when (read IF) my brain fires up because we can't just sit still and let the bankers walk all over us anymore.

reply to post by frazzle

Not trying to be argumentative but unless they're being traded ONLY outside normal venues, corporations would do the policing, just like they do with job applicants and employee payroll. Of course that's mostly true with alternative local currencies, as well.

No you are right to a degree and there will always be a black market for that or perhaps some kind of proxy you can go through... Where there is a will there is a way... I'm sure there will be plenty of cat and mouse games to be played, as always...

I'll take a look at your link tomorrow when (read IF) my brain fires up because we can't just sit still and let the bankers walk all over us anymore.

Spot on, when you read it I guarantee you will get excited about the potential of this and see just how it can operate even from only one country... They have kinda got in the back door too, it is really quite clever what they have done and I can't wait to see them grow and see what they can do! I'll leave you with a small snippet...

At Paymium we spent lots of time and energy talking about Bitcoin to our regulating bodies, the Banque de France, the ACP (French equivalent of the American SEC), TRACFIN (AML French supervising body) etc. We engaged all these resources with one goal in mind : get these people to know Bitcoin, advocate our beloved crypto-currency and listen to them, help them think until they finally reach the same conclusion as we did : there's nothing wrong with people being free. There's nothing wrong with people freely exchanging value, we don't hurt anybody, we're not forcing anyone to use Bitcoin, we simply want to see our dream and the future of money become a reality.

Whoop Whoop!!!!



Edit: Here is the link again... bitcointalk.org...

if you understand how bitcoins work then you would know that its an even bigger scam then a regular bank and regular banks work.. It makes no sense.. bitcoins can be made from nothing, stolen easily, used mostly for illegal purchases with stolen credit cards or accounts to aquire the bitcoins in the first place. as well as the exchange rate changes so quickly you can lose your ass in an hour or gain a good % it makes no sense.. It will never be a real currency if it does then I would never use it.

reply to post by dc4lifeskater

It makes no sense.. bitcoins can be made from nothing, stolen easily, used mostly for illegal purchases with stolen credit cards or accounts to aquire the bitcoins in the first place.

What are Federal Reserve notes made from? Answer = thin air. Well debt really, but that's the subject of another thread. It also takes a large amount of computing power to "mine" them, they don't come easily or cheaply. Furthermore, the amount that will ever created is limited; the mining process is just the way they are released into circulation.

I've never had my BTC stolen. I lost a few due to my own mistakes, but they are fairly easy to keep secure from hackers unless you are a total idiot who always gets viruses from downloading stolen stuff. Anyhow, this is why some people prefer entities like a "bitcoin bank" to secure their funds. Not to mention you can easily encrypt your wallet file to make it almost impenetrable.

And what they are used for is irrelevant, because all currencies are used to fund crime, and the legitimate uses of Bitcoin far outweigh any negative uses. Everyone goes on about how Bitcoin can be easily used to launder money, but what they never mention is that the most money laundering activity actually happens through legitimate banks using fiat Government money. The recent HSBC scandal is a prime example: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by tothetenthpower

The beautiful thing about crypto currencies is that they are anonymous and CANNOT be manipulated by people in suits. Well it can be now. ~Tenth

Yep, there goes the anonymity of Silkroad....