Are you drinking the Kool Aid or making it?

Originally posted by tetra50
so, since I wrote this thread, pondering our existence as we all do, several days ago (though I've been pondering such for quite some time), there have been several threads, and interaction on my part with several members that expanded and enlarged my original question.

Perhaps I have decided to use this thread as a sort of journal.....

QMask put up a thread, in which I participated and follow still, about our bodies being the mechanism of enslavement and proof, of sorts, of a prison planet.....I invited him/her to participate here, but he/she is busy with his own. No offense, just sayin......

Then I discovered a thread, through QMask's, and if I don't mention the member's name who pointed me here, I apologize, it's only that I lost track while reading that turned me on to this: www.thenewearth.org...
Wow. Just wow.

Haven't read the whole thing, but what impressed me, and depressed me the most about it, was the idea that for longer than we humans can even count there has been an empire in place with control over our planet that thought controls everything in our observable galaxy, and has done business in this way, again, for longer than we have a calendar for.....

In fact, if you read this, you would find that it goes beyond the whole soul question, says that once our soul is set free from our bodies in our current life, our very souls, root consciousness are enslaved and hypnotized to return to a certain place where we will be given a new body and life as a renewed slave.....

I post this on my thread because it originally pondered the questions of hell, life beyond our scope on this planet, as we generally agree on our geography or not, and asks if we are somewhere else entirely, if the faith many of us put our energy into and the texts that back it up are original and authentic and about the very creation of life, or if this "life" came first, is more myriad and varied than we know and/or acknowledge, and in fact, we are held hostage, given a forged history, with said texts to enslave us and back that up, or if some other combination exists......

But I have to say, having discovered the read of 1947, and a nurse's "interviews" with Airl. a being who is a pilot, engineer, scientist, explorer, for a place and effort called "Dominion," who can recall her beingness for millions of years or more, and gave a very different history of this planet and how and why it is being used, much less whom is doing the using, and the opposing forces involved....none of it is good for us "is bes."
Give it a read, if my thread introduces questions that interest you. For the read would interest you, as well.

Having cited this particular "interview," I wanted to follow up a little as to how I see this fits into my original OP, and the questioning of where we are, who we are, how we got here, and perhaps what, we even are and what is going on, for this is the essence of what I was trying to get at, originally.

There are many possibilities. If you dive down that "rabbit hole," as people here are fond of calling it, I think it branches off in many directions, all possible, some less probable, but many there to obfuscate, detract, and spin many away from any possibility of there ever having been a "true story." Is some of it true, or none of it.

I responded on another thread today where someone was asserting mind control, and the OP was in question and under seige because he has admitted in other threads, already, that he is schizophrenic. The only reason I bring this up, is that I pointed out in one of my responses to another poster that both are possible, and true. He could very well be schizophrenic and suffering mind control at the same time. One thing does not disallow the possible truth of the other.

And I state this here, because it is part, I think, of the conundrum of those who seek to pin down that illusive thing we think of as "truth." Someone I knew once said in a discussion, "But there are different truths for others. Just because this is your truth, does not make it so for another."

I ponder on this often, as I am not a subscriber to the post modernistic concept of truth as a relative thing. And yet, we are in the midst of much technology that can make it just so. Another thread I wrote, www.abovetopsecret.com... is about just that.

which brings us to discernment.

We must make judgements everyday, large and mostly small, just to move forward through the day, say, driving a car. And yet, if we all had different information, and only some of it was actual, think how at odds truth, belief, and knowing anything, and therefore, proceeding, in any way at all, becomes....

Some trolls live in hell, I'm not a troll. You gotta go below the bridge to live in hell. We have Christmas up here all year round. It's even legal to gamble at Christmas, there is a Casino there.

Yeah, maybe you're right, we may be in a bad place

Originally posted by rickymouse
Some trolls live in hell, I'm not a troll. You gotta go below the bridge to live in hell. We have Christmas up here all year round. It's even legal to gamble at Christmas, there is a Casino there.

Yeah, maybe you're right, we may be in a bad place

I suppose "here," is a paradise for some, and a hell for others, Christmas and all that
And I guess this is your way of labelling me a troll, keeping within the T&C guidelines and all that....

Originally posted by tetra50

Originally posted by rickymouse
Some trolls live in hell, I'm not a troll. You gotta go below the bridge to live in hell. We have Christmas up here all year round. It's even legal to gamble at Christmas, there is a Casino there.

Yeah, maybe you're right, we may be in a bad place

I suppose "here," is a paradise for some, and a hell for others, Christmas and all that
And I guess this is your way of labelling me a troll, keeping within the T&C guidelines and all that....

edit on 5-3-2013 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)

Are you from lower Michigan? Trolls live below the bridge, yoopers live above the bridge in Upper Michigan

It is a Michigan joke. I only call people from Lower Michigan trolls.

Question:

Are you drinking the Kool Aid or making it?

Answer:


Deep one must go

Ingredients are what one must know

prior to any consumption

one must be able to function

three times I say too you

I AM, I AM, I AM.




the first two answer, can you deduce the purpose of the third?



Too much kool aid Im falling all over the place

reply to post by rickymouse


Nope not from Michigan. Just trying to get a handle on the cryptic responses, which seem quite off topic to the thread I authored that I am getting. Not too stupid--I kind of get the bit about Christmas up here all the time, and gambling, if those horror stories I sometimes dream and sometimes remember are at all accurate....., which would mean you are likely someone that was there at that time with me, or have some of him in you, as you seem to know about those incidents.

But how the troll thing comes into the thread I wrote.....I don't know. Except, the last part where you say that it might be a pretty bad place we are in, and then laugh. Which, I guess, tells me all I need to know right there.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
Question:

Are you drinking the Kool Aid or making it?

Answer:


Deep one must go

Ingredients are what one must know

prior to any consumption

one must be able to function

three times I say too you

I AM, I AM, I AM.




the first two answer, can you deduce the purpose of the third?



Too much kool aid Im falling all over the place

Alice through the looking glass. And the kool aid is nothing more or less than that mushroom which one piece makes one very small, the other very tall, with no rhyme nor reason which will induce which, despite instructions given. In other words, even if the instructions were followed, no matter how one proceeded, the results would be the opposite.

The last you ask, we cannot ask to go anywhere else, change the circumstances, unless first functioning in what we are facing here.

And the I AM, I Am, I AM, simply brings to mind Beetlejuice, and I'd rather not repeat his name three times.

You seem to be "stalking me," so to speak. Guess you are entertained by toying with something dangling from a string, helpless? Sorry, probably not swift enough for your games, and after our exchange on the last thread, you are even more provoked and interested in proving my lack......

As to the Kool Aid....well, we can come up with many esoteric, obvious and non obvious allusions there, can't we.
I was thinking, when I wrote the thread, obviously, along the lines of Jim Jones......

Inhale/Exhale: I also see where you are by your signature.....
"Our perceptions become our reality via the choices we make......"

You and I right there would stand in direct opposition to one another. Just sayin', we are pretty much diametrically opposed in our belief systems. I believe there are very few, if any, choices here. It's all pretty much the same. You may think you have a choice, but it seems it may only be provided as a means to blame you for what results.

For more on why I see it that way, you might check out my other thread: Thing one and Thing Two.
but then, probably not, as I do not think we will ever have communications, judging from the other thread, which are beneficial to either of us. I take exception, heartily, to your accusing me of using two accounts, and replying to a thread under a different member name. Also, I take exception to your labelling my motivations without any foundation for it, and using that to couch yourself in a concerned, caring light. You greatly twisted the situation there, and it is something I have no respect for. Also, you showed quite an interest in repeating more than once that "we all see," which is designed, inherently to slot and disenfranchise someone, as though they are viewed by many in the light you shine upon them, for you are certainly right in your assessment, and those "all" that are watching see this and agree with you.

Guess you need back up.

Me, I've been walking the path alone for quite some time, and avoid those who need others to bring along to castigate with them.

Well, I suppose I can get back on topic. I have already hashed over all of what you are speaking of in your OP. I have wondered if we are sort of robots that contain a soul, if this is a prison state because of something we did wrong, if this is real or not and whether it is a perception or possibly we are having an induced dream interacting with a computer as a form of a teaching program of our future society. The last has the most precedence in my mind if any of these are real.

Lets see, we start my conclusions with "is this real". I hit my finger with a hammer, it hurts and bleeds and turns all black after a while. Seems real but it could still be an illusion of the mind as our mind could perceive pain if the computer was advanced enough. One thing for sure, in this reality you can hurt excessively and apparently die.

Are we from another planet, I feel only if most all the life here was created by the other planet, terraformed.

I believe this is real though. How could it be unreal. How could an advanced race of beings ever come up with the stupidity I see in the people of the world. It is almost like it is accentuated. A training program seems the best reasonability I can find.

What about god or the communication with the devine. If it is in this reality I think this is sort of real, even if it is a computer training program of the future and we are tiny kids than the ability of us to know there is something more important than ourselves would be important. I think we should respect the earth that feeds us and allows this life even if it is just a dream. Remember that we have to qualify if this is for an advanced race, an advanced race would know that the biodome of the planet is the most important thing there is, if this is a history lesson, expect great destruction before it is over. I would hope that if my assumption is true, that a world as beautiful as this exists in the future, maybe it got trashed and we are living in domes

I guess I have to finish this life with all the ups and downs to find out what the afterlife will bring. I don't know what is really real, I just know that if I get along with others and nature and try not to unnecessarily interfere with these and just observe than I will be better off. I am convinced I have some sort of guardian angel or something, I have been around too long and experienced too much to deny something is looking over me. I may not know what it is but I know something exists.

I have seen no evidence that can discount this, because all evidence could be created to substantuate the dream.

As far as remotely being controlled, that is possible also. We could all loose our intelligence in an instant if this is true, but what I see of the screwed up chemistry in our food does not prove this theory.

I hope this is on topic more. Actually all I have said is that I don't know anything for sure.

reply to post by rickymouse


Thanks for coming back to topic. I am at work, so cannot give your reply full justice and will return to reply again later. But for now, this interests me:

As far as remotely being controlled, that is possible also. We could all loose our intelligence in an instant if this is true, but what I see of the screwed up chemistry in our food does not prove this theory.

I do not understand what I see as sort of a non sequitor here in logic.

As for the end of your reply, I agree wholeheartedly. The frustration can often be, the more we seek, the less we seem to be able to discern......

Thanks again, and I will have more to say to speak to what you wrote later.

reply to post by tetra50

You and I right there would stand in direct opposition to one another. Just sayin', we are pretty much diametrically opposed in our belief systems. I believe there are very few, if any, choices here. It's all pretty much the same.

You see your assumptions are your wall which you have trouble crossing.

There are none as in a new choices, it all is the same on the most basic level, concepts are just repeated over and over being dressed differently to give us the illusion of change.

When you wish to assume my beliefs look much further as nothing clashes when all is true even a deception.

Now that you feel as though your being stalked I say good day to you and a pity you feel this way about yourself when in fact the reason I respond or attempt to communicate with anything/one is simply because I find it/them or what they're saying interesting.

My responses might not make any sense to most if not all as the one above others are just for a laugh and others to seriously inquire.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by tetra50

 

You and I right there would stand in direct opposition to one another. Just sayin', we are pretty much diametrically opposed in our belief systems. I believe there are very few, if any, choices here. It's all pretty much the same.

You see your assumptions are your wall which you have trouble crossing.

There are none as in a new choices, it all is the same on the most basic level, concepts are just repeated over and over being dressed differently to give us the illusion of change.

When you wish to assume my beliefs look much further as nothing clashes when all is true even a deception.

Now that you feel as though your being stalked I say good day to you and a pity you feel this way about yourself when in fact the reason I respond or attempt to communicate with anything/one is simply because I find it/them or what they're saying interesting.

Please accept my apology for the "stalking" comment. It was wholly out of line, really. Wasn't have a very good day and directed it your way, inexcuseable. Please feel free to read and respond, and I would hope I could learn something from your interest and resonse,, as your "wall" comment certainly intrigued me and I found what followed very well written, and captured my interest as well in your analogies. Again, please accept my apologies; hopefully, I can find a way to remove the stalking comment, as you were simply apparently interested in what I was writing in other places, and I thank you for your comments and interest.,

You see your assumptions are your wall which you have trouble crossing.

There are none as in a new choices, it all is the same on the most basic level, concepts are just repeated over and over being dressed differently to give us the illusion of change.

When you wish to assume my beliefs look much further as nothing clashes when all is true even a deception.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


I wish you would return to expound upon this further as it intrigues me, and I might learn something from it. For instance, what assumptions are the wall which I'm having trouble crossing?
Your second sentence I agree with wholeheartedly, and see it manifested on a daily basis and find great frustration in it. Change is nothing more than an illusion, I think, for nothing changes, and this is the one constant I perceive.
As for assuming your beliefs, I can only go by the words you use to express your "beliefs." And how can all be true, therefore?
You see, I don't believe there are any real choices, per se, regardless of our perceptions. If there is no real change, then there can be no real choices. Yes?

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
Question:

Are you drinking the Kool Aid or making it?

Answer:


Deep one must go

Ingredients are what one must know

prior to any consumption

one must be able to function

three times I say too you

I AM, I AM, I AM.




the first two answer, can you deduce the purpose of the third?



Too much kool aid Im falling all over the place

And I would ask for further clarification to this riddle, as I'm afraid it is beyond the scope of my limited intelligence, though I found pondering it extremely entertaining.

reply to post by rickymouse

I guess I have to finish this life with all the ups and downs to find out what the afterlife will bring. I don't know what is really real, I just know that if I get along with others and nature and try not to unnecessarily interfere with these and just observe than I will be better off.

I found this particularly profound. And often, I wonder if this IS the afterlife. I sure hope not. Perhaps, another step in the further evolution of our souls, designed to teach us a lesson we didn't learn in the last life. But as for getting along with others and nature and trying not to unnecessarily interfere with these and just observe--I often wonder how one does that. It seems sometimes that life, no matter how hard we try to just be the observer, and not interfere or cause any ripples, life has a way of pulling us in, involving us, no matter how hard we try to stay on the outskirts or perimeter and do no harm.

I have seen no evidence that can discount this, because all evidence could be created to substantuate the dream.

As far as remotely being controlled, that is possible also. We could all loose our intelligence in an instant if this is true,

As to the first, yes, my point exactly. All the evidence could and probably is created to substantiate what we are living, so as to mimic a sort of reality, or what we are given to perceive as such, whether it is or the only one, or not. Imagine how screwed we would be if we were all given different, opposing information, along these lines, and then expected to discern truth and proceed, somehow. Surely, we would all be at odds, and sometimes, to me, at least, it seems this is the case.

As to the second in your quote, this is my biggest fear: I do believe, I am afraid, we are remotely controlled, fed, information, and manipulated into responding, so that really, there are no choices, while we are told we are responsible via the choices we make, when, with what I describe, there really are none, other than perhaps, laying down and not moving, acting and trying not to think at all: an impossibility, obviously, as our natural inclination is to survive. And sometimes I think, this may be our biggest built in fault. For we will pursue it, it seems, at almost any odds, which divides and concquers us perhaps more than any other thing.
As for losing our intelligence and awareness of past events at any given moment, I often think this happens. A sort of populus mind wipe, if you will, guaranteeing that we repeat, ad nauseum, a past which has gotten us virtually no where, but in a mindless, endless loop of the same.

Sorry for being so depressing. But I am left with the comfort of what you say about the beauty of this world, nature wise, and the hope that this, if nothing else, survives, in spite of humanity's efforts, it seems, to use and destroy it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

reply to post by tetra50


Who or what pushes the levers of the remote control is the big question. To be considered normal in a society we have to follow a certain path. Getting outside of the area within that path gets us to be considered abnormal. Along that path there are side paths that we can follow, these paths have their own societies. If one is a medical path then you are required to follow the path that is already laid out and you cannot venture off that path without the creators of the path reprimanding you. If you follow the archeological path, you are not allowed to wander to far away from the path and others on the path or you will be shunned and sent into the woods to be devoured by the skeptics and shills. These kind of people are the guardians of the path.

Society has created all these rules to insure that no one will collapse the way it is. Collapsing the way it is will mean that your job and way of life will be disrupted. It is inevitable that this will happen so keeping it from happening now is what people try to do. If everything collapses in a future generation, who cares. That attitude of "Who cares about the future" is starting to cause major problems as the numbers of people that only see the present as important keep increasing. I understand this.

I love the woods, I can handle the trolls and the skeptics by arming myself with the same evidence they use but I try to think it out better to make it more truthful and give it the ability to withstand scrutiny because it explains things better and simpler. I see people throw big words at me, words that I can look up multiple applications for. I see the words are misapplied and not pertinent to what they are applied to much of the time. You can not use the good properties of a tomato to say it needs to be in chicken soup. It does go good on BBQ chicken and there it has different properties that are relevant to a different need or desire. This is an example of misapplied evidence.

Overthinking something means that sometimes nothing gets accomplished. I hated having workers under me that did that. You have to accomplish what needs to get done, a rational set of rules needs to be implemented before starting the work. Here's the kicker though, nobody is examining whether the work needs to be done in the first place, spinning of the wheels to make the Economy grow. And of course the national debt grows along with the fake economy.

I try not to drink the koolaid and don't especially like to make it. There are much healthier things to drink out there but you must still act as if you have drank the koolaid to fit into society. Remember that No great mind fit well into society well while they were alive. An artists paintings aren't worth much till after they die because the person buying them can make their interpretation of the painting real if the artist is not around to challenge them.

I enjoy my new life outside of the rat race, I don't think a mouse needs to compete with rats anyway. Every one of the classes of people has a set of paths that they have made. Every class has a set of rules to remain in their grace. Just as the religions have their own paths, so have the politicians and leaders of governments. I observe, I do not interfere, I will though inform others with what I see. Belief is an inalienable right, I only wish to give insight to others to alter their beliefs, not change them drasticly. I hate wild swings that get blown out of rationality. I'm a conservative I guess, saying slowly progressing is better than jumping over a cliff.

reply to post by rickymouse

Again, thanks for some very well stated and thought out words. They have touched a chord in me, and I will re read them again and again, for they hold wisdom impossible to absorb in just one reading.

reply to post by tetra50

The resultant questions are many and varied: Are we in a computer simulation? Is there a quantum computer, and are we a product and living and experiencing a product of that simulated, algorythmic produced "reality," manipulated by something or someone outside of it? Or, are we in an alternative universe, defined by our perception of it, or another's, that which created it.

Well, your OP is deep. I like deep and often find myself in the deepest parts of my mind. I enjoyed the read!

When I have time on my hands, I think... and think a lot. Often times I find myself pondering the aged old questions.

I will soon be 40 (3 days)!!!

I have learned some things that I call evident truths.

Each thing has a "system" about it. Nature included, although not limited to just nature.

The "nature" of things are evident.

Everything grows, everything transforms. Out of each thing was one.

There is one truth to the nature of all things.

Out of the One come many.

Flip the coin....

Out of one question, arises many.

Could we be manipulated by our own soul and not know it? Like a computer simulation?

Everything IS based on limited perception and we are constantly creating such. Always!

Is there an alternative Universe?

Is there possibly another choice being made right now, this very second, by me?

Possibilities are endless when it comes to perception but one can find a mutual perception that agrees.

Can we all agree on the evident facts? I think thats the root and we work up.

It should be called climbing the tree instead of going down the rabbit hole. lol

I will soon be 40 (3 days)!!!

And I am fifty, whatever that means. I don't think age has informed my wisdom, nor point of view very much, but perhaps it has for others.

The "nature" of things are evident.

Everything grows, everything transforms. Out of each thing was one.

There is one truth to the nature of all things.

Out of the One come many.

Flip the coin....

Respectfully, I don't agree. We are "fed" perceptions of the world we live in, and they may be accurate or not. Consider: We are inculcated and taught certain facts, as students and youngsters, only to find later that this "his-story" is nothing but a story written by the victors of the war, or those that control the perceptions and vision of the world, which may or may not be realistic. We wake up to this slowly, getting educations, jobs, buying houses, investing in what we are led to believe will keep us safe in the future, have children, because it is both our natural inclination, we are socially inculcated to do that as, particularly women, for that is the essence and pinnacle of our being women, and we are led to believe that we are more "acceptable and respectable" in society if some man puts a ring on our finger and "commits" himself to this same version of events....having a family, sacrificing and committing to something greater than we are alone, so that we never reach self actualization as ourselves, for that sacrifice and committment is considered more, let's say, penultimate, worthy.....and along the way, TPTB are making lots of money off us, collecting interests on our investments, 401ks, money in the bank, etc. This is the way it works.

I don;t believe that the nature of all things are evident, as evidenced by your last statement:

It should be called climbing the tree instead of going down the rabbit hole. lol

Alice fell down that rabbit hole. She was given mushrooms, one to make her small and one to make her larger, and lied to about which was which. Along the way, she met the mad hatter, giving her nothing but gibberish about the way out, and the hookah smoking catapillar, who gave the same, advising her to just be , as he was being because very likely he was quite happy sitting in the tree smoking the hookah, and we can extrapolate there what was keeping him happy with his position in that tree- not climbing, you understand, just happy to "occupy" his position in it, never moving nor questioning.
Having said all that, I would rather climb the tree of life and reach some nirvana, then live in this rabbit hole.
And this story, of Alice, I feel, who in the end, kept meeting the Queen of Hearts who demanded her beheading, just for the fact she existed and was there occupying space, which evidently the queen just for her presence saw her to be a threat.....
There is much in this story to inform our reality as we perceive it today, I feel, and how manipulated and extrapolated it is, and also, "fake." to teach us something. Perhaps to find a way to search out the tree of life and ascend it, rather than be stuck in that ever present, never ending rabbit hole.....

Lastly, as I have kept you too long:

There is one truth to the nature of all things.

Out of the One come many.

Flip the coin....

I do not subscribe to the belief that there is one truth to the nature of all things. How can there be, with so many perceptions and stories of "reality."

A friend of mine, a scientist, once said to me, there is one truth for some, and another for others. It is how we all carry on.

As to flip the coin: Interesting you say that, for a coin has a flip side. I do not believe that it takes one viewpoint, one extreme, to provide another. I think this is another propaganda, designed to get us to accept one or the other viewpoint, from science to philosopy. If taken to the extreme, this viewpoint, or meme, it means that the flipside of murder is suicide and so on. That for good to exist, there must be evil. Just a justiication for the evil, in my opinion, a way of blaming God for evil, and blaming him or whatever that higher power is.....

Appreciate your thoughts, MamaJ.....You stimulate my thinking and give me the change to voice it like no other