Correct me if I am wrong here but you can be a pagan without believing in Satan.

Yes, Bill. "Pagan" does not imply the absence of God. It simply implies the absence of the Christian God. The Romans were pagans before Constantine - they still had Gods, such as Mars, etc.

[edit on 31-10-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by billmcelligott
Correct me if I am wrong here but you can be a pagan without believing in Satan.

Exactly. It is Christians, not "pagans", who believe in satan.

There are two major types of "paganism", i.e., polytheism. One is Hinduism, whose devotees honor multiple deities such as Vishnu, Krishna, Ganesh, etc. The other is neo-paganism, which covers religions such as Wicca.
However, most Hindus consider the deities of the faith to be representative of various aspects of Brahma, the Creator. In like manner, most neo-pagans consider the deities of western mythology to be aspects of the Infinite. These could be analogous to the Christian belief in angels (Pike once wrote that he considered the Christian belief in angels to be derived from the Hindu and Zoroastrian belief in lesser deities).

Whatever the case may be, anyone of any religion can become a Mason providing only that they believe in a supreme Being, and are of upright moral character.

Fiat Lvx.

Truly, but to be fair, SOME christians feel that anyone that is not worshipping g-d as these self same christians have defined Him, ARE worshipping satan. In their lexicon, there is no difference, hence the baseless accusation.

MASONRY takes no position on g-d. MASONS decide for themselves, which is of course anathema for the haters...

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Was the 30th Degree Mason you interviewed a "Commander of The Council of Kadosh" or just a regular Knight Kadosh?
I'm quite interested in this layer of Freemasonry (Areopagus) at the moment - its quite a long way up the tree so to speak, these people are usually responsible for co-ordinating things on a State or greater regional basis, relatively few of them as far as I'm aware.
Mind you you will hear the exact opposite from the Masons on this board (no rank higher than Master Mason etc...)

Surprise, surprise we have the 'Troll King' and expert on Freemasonry. I am tempted to agree with him as I am curious to see what reply he would give. He has no understanding of Freemasonry. He has his own agenda and that is to tell lies about Freemasonry. He will not accept what Freemasons write as he knows best. I am a Freemason who has taken several degrees and even grades and no matter how many more I take I shall always remember that I meet my Brethren strictly on the' Level'. In this regard the sublime degree of a Master Mason is the degree that completes the status of the Freemason. He has reached full Masonic manhood.

Brother Gerard

Originally posted by Masonic Light

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The Grand Lodge of India is recognized by all US Grand Lodges, and its members are predominantly Hindus, i.e., "pagans". There are also many Hindu Masons in the United States. One Brother, of Indian origin, is a regular contributor to the Scottish Rite Journal, and holds the 33°. Would he be unwelcomed in your Lodge because he is "pagan"?

Fiat Lvx.

Actually, I'm not sure I was correct on the deist thing,... I believe the requirement is not only a belief in a Supreme Being, but that the Supreme Being has an interest in the affairs of mankind... At least as far as the Ahiman Rezon implies in Chapter I, Sec. I. A true deist does not believe that the creator God takes any consideration in creation after having created it... and so runs afoul of the whole requirement in belief in a God who is concerned with the moral conduct of mankind.

Hindus are recognized as having a Supreme Being (Brahman???, I believe). While Hinduism recognizes other "gods", one Hindu I know has told me that it is a misconception that it is a polytheistic religion... Apparently, Hinduism teaches that all things are God, and so that the lesser gods are just an extention of the greater existance of God... So I suppose the answer is a little more complex than characterizing Hinduism as paganism.

In PA, the Landmarks are not written down, but any question regarding the Landmarks are addressed to the committee on the Landmarks, which renders the final decision on a particular matter...

Jase, my grand lodge ONLY requests that to be a candidate, a man profess a belief in A supreme being, however he knows him. I has been decided that even a Hindu, who may believe in several "gods", that really, all those "gods" are the same, just various "faces"...

In other words, we do not ask HOW a man knows god, only that he profess a belief in god.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Jase, my grand lodge ONLY requests that to be a candidate, a man profess a belief in A supreme being, however he knows him. I has been decided that even a Hindu, who may believe in several "gods", that really, all those "gods" are the same, just various "faces"...

In other words, we do not ask HOW a man knows god, only that he profess a belief in god.

Yes. I think we both kinda said the same thing in regards to Hinduism. Our petitions don't ask what religion that a candidate practices, only, as you said that the candidate professes a belief in a Supreme Being.

As far as the description in the Ahiman Rezon, I have never heard an investigative committee asking any specifics about a man's religion. So a man could have a vague belief in God, without having ever actively participated in an organized religion, and that would be fine.

My original post was regarding Satanism, which wouldn't be acceptable. Such a person would be considered a "libertine" and wouldn't be an acceptable candidate for Freemasonry.

Originally posted by JaseP


Actually, I'm not sure I was correct on the deist thing,... I believe the requirement is not only a belief in a Supreme Being, but that the Supreme Being has an interest in the affairs of mankind... At least as far as the Ahiman Rezon implies in Chapter I, Sec. I. A true deist does not believe that the creator God takes any consideration in creation after having created it... and so runs afoul of the whole requirement in belief in a God who is concerned with the moral conduct of mankind.

There have been quite a number of Deists who were Masons, including Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Paul Revere, Frederick the Great, and Johannes Wolfgang von Goethe. There is no requirement in Freemasonry to believe in a God who is "concerned with the moral conduct of mankind", per se. It is required that the Mason be a moral man, but this does not ipso facto prove a conclusion that morality has anything to do with theology.
Thus, it is true that candidates must believe in God, and is also true that candidates must be moral. But it isn't necessary that a candidate must believe that morality is supernatural in origin.

Hindus are recognized as having a Supreme Being (Brahman???, I believe). While Hinduism recognizes other "gods", one Hindu I know has told me that it is a misconception that it is a polytheistic religion... Apparently, Hinduism teaches that all things are God, and so that the lesser gods are just an extention of the greater existance of God... So I suppose the answer is a little more complex than characterizing Hinduism as paganism.

Thank you for the clarification. "Paganism" is derived from the Latin word "paganni", which means "country dweller". It was applied by the medieval Roman Catholic Church to rural peasants who retained their traditional religious beliefs, refusing to convert to Catholicism; thus, in the eyes of the Church, all non-Catholics are "pagans".
Thankfully, Freemasonry makes no such pretense, accepting all men who believe in God, regardless of their sectarian doctrines.

Fiat Lvx.