UK Perspective on Guns

Having read a lot of USA GUN posts over the last few years and mulled it over I've formed a couple of opinions.

The USA Psyche is different and I think people from other countries (not just Europe) do not appreciate the deep rooted fear that citizens in the US have that one day they may need that option of owning a gun to dispose of a tyrannical government. I think that is an inherent part of your education and culture but people from other countries have a hard time empathising with that point of view that it is seen as a Right, as much as Trial by Jury. Whilst I think people from other countries are unable to appreciate the US psyche, I think it goes both ways. From outside looking in the problem looks simple. The more guns that are in "ordinary homes" and "ordinary people" the higher the chance will be that "ordinary people" will get shot.

It's obviously a passionate subject for most of our cousins on this forum and it's always disappointing to see the debates turn to arguments and eventually aggression, frustration and hate and I think it comes from the differences in culture. So bearing that in mind i don't think its ever helpful to try and compare statistics from the 2 countries (UK and US). The vast, vast majority of ordinary people in the UK do not own a gun, or have ever held or seen a gun, or it has to be said have any desire to. I think in the US there is a very wide cross section of people as gun owners, little old ladies, teachers and so on. So when you start to look at statistics bear in mind that the figures you're looking at do have a twist to them in that respect. All I can say is that the sort of people that have access to guns and 'presumably' (I use that word deliberately) getting shot by them, are really not 'ordinary' citizens. The chance of me getting shot in the UK would very much depend on what I was doing, where I was doing it and with whom. As I live my day to day life there is no risk at all of me getting shot. I think that is a very hard point of view for someone from the US to appreciate. I'm not going to get shot at work or in a Park or in McDonalds. Criminals will still get shot, usually by other criminals.

What I think we do accept in the UK is that we know we have cars and whilst we have access to those cars, cars will occasionally, accidentally and sometimes deliberately kill. The same goes for knives and drugs But we do choose to accept these things because we cannot give them up. I suppose life would be to difficult without them. The big problem is the price that you pay for that necessity. Occasionally you are going to get occasional accidents, murders and unfortunately massacres. I think that a large part of the problem, thats being touched on is the mental health aspect to all of this. As we can see the majority of the population in the US are not shooting each other on a daily basis. They using their guns responsibly for sport and hunting etc. The problem is when a persons mental health turns and it starts to spiral into depression or dilution the Gun gives that person a way to take control of something in their life, that something usually being over other people.

I will say that I don't think that the US Government has any desire to take away guns from tits US Citizens. I don't think its something that could work on a logistical level for one. There is something immediate and detached about a gun where, if there's easy access to one, in a moments anger it doesn't give someone time to think. So a teenager can make a very bad decision in a very dark and difficult period in their life but worse than that is that they have the option to follow it through,

The only thing I will say, that people may take offence to, is the almost religious-esque fanatical arguments to justify keeping the right to own a gun. Those arguments might be valid, they might be justifiable but what we're hearing is something akin to an argument from a Dark Age Religion which is justifying the stoning of women. Please stop peddling the 'Knives/Cars/Guns don't kill people' line. I'm pretty sure that if the UK population had ease of access to guns we'd see a few teenagers and other people with fleeting mental problems committing the same massacres from time to time. Guns don't kill people but normal people in dark mental places with easy access to guns do. But I don't think I can see how you can have it both ways.

I'm sorry, but we've had quite a few "UK perspective on guns" threads here recently. It's not exactly a new concept. By all means, yet another Brit needs to say his piece. Free speech and all that; so go ahead. Let's not even get into crime rate comparisons at this point. By this time we all know what we will find.

But from my perspective this sounds like the Pope telling me when I can have sex.

If you no playa da game, you no maka da rules.

reply to post by region331


Well Im from the UK and we have had cases where people have mowed down people standing at a bus stop with their cars.
Killers will always find away to kill people.

In The USA the founding fathers gave you the right to arm yourself to protect yourself from all types of threats including the Government.

So the fact the the Government want to remove your protection from it and any other foe should raise alarm bells.

They have no right to deny your rights' what if you denied their rights and said no more government as you are to dangerous you have to be removed.

There are more people than government officals.

Englishman here, stick to your guns America. Ignore the English trolls.

First of all, the people created this country to escape European tyranny, and yet it seems to have completely taken over our country. 2/3's of Americans oppose gun control, and yet they are going ahead with it. Our media and government our corrupt, and you wonder why people are afraid. The Bill of Rights was created to protect us from the government, and so the government wants to destroy it. First it's the second amendment, then the first. What's next? I'm not against gun-control, I am against the attacks on freedom and such. Our president also has a history of voting to protect criminals, while ignoring the rights of babies that survived abortion. That's what this world has come to kill the babies and save the killers. Our world is corrupt and the shootings are just the symptom. And if you don't like it take a pill, and go back to paying taxes.

Originally posted by region331
Having read a lot of USA GUN posts over the last few years and mulled it over I've formed a couple of opinions.

The USA Psyche is different and I think people from other countries (not just Europe) do not appreciate the deep rooted fear that citizens in the US have that one day they may need that option of owning a gun to dispose of a tyrannical government.

Its not fear, its history. The founders used history to show what happens to the unarmed. How despots rise to power with ease among the disarmed nations of Europe.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
Englishman here, stick to your guns America. Ignore the English trolls.

Yea he sounds like a Mercian talking down to the Welsh.

reply to post by Logarock


Nevermind. Got it.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by Logarock

 

Honest question: Who are you referring to?

edit on 1-1-2013 by Wide-Eyes because: (no reason given)

The OP....not you mate.

reply to post by Logarock


All good man, realised what you meant after I posted.

I love gun threads

Their so productive

reply to post by region331

The USA Psyche is different and I think people from other countries (not just Europe) do not appreciate the deep rooted fear that citizens in the US have that one day they may need that option of owning a gun to dispose of a tyrannical government.

Than other countries are naive. Look at the UK, you guys have eyes on you 24/7 and your cops are looking to carry more weapons (most recently I read they were working to all carry tasers, I don't know what has happened since.) Also (and this isn't directed at you but other people from the UK I have seen here) a lot of people from the UK act self righteous like they just up and decided guns were bad and gave them up, when in reality your government took them from you. Have you ever considered that maybe you don't fear a tyrannical government because you guys submit at every turn? Here take my semi-auto rifles! Here take my handguns! Put cameras on every street corner? Why not!

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


The saving grace of what has happened here in the UK is, the government here are too incompetent to keep an eye on all of us. No matter what you are told, this is the truth.

Eta@ Unfortunately, this extends to criminals too. Law and order is snipped in the UK.

Originally posted by region331

The only thing I will say, that people may take offence to, is the almost religious-esque fanatical arguments to justify keeping the right to own a gun. Those arguments might be valid, they might be justifiable but what we're hearing is something akin to an argument from a Dark Age Religion which is justifying the stoning of women. .

Well we have an amendment giving women the right to vote. We are way out of the dark ages.

In the dark ages the averge joe had to use pitch forks and the like. Keeping the people form owning guns is a Dark Age idea.

The only government of a developed country that actually fears its people is the French, They'll grind the country to a halt if they need to.

Perhaps you're right perhaps we do submit at every turn but are we any worse off for it?

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


For now, but as technology advances they will do better. Facial recognition software will make targets out of faces and direct people watching to focus on certain people, etc.

reply to post by region331


Yes! You are worse off for it! You are disarmed and under surveillance. Those things came quickly. Do you think it inexplicably stops there? You are worse off because you opened the door wide for further action. As I stated above, the surviellance will become more advanced and privacy will be lost, people will be targeted and harrassed. The police will start to abuse in was not unlike they do in the US.

You are much worse off for it.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
I love gun threads

Their so productive

They're as in 'they are'.

Sorry, I just felt a little pedantic there.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
I love gun threads

Their so productive

They're as in 'they are'.

Sorry, I just felt a little pedantic there.

edit on 1-1-2013 by Wide-Eyes because: Grammar

LMAO

Its funny you say that cause I retyped it 3 times and knew it was wrong

Yes I meant THEY'RE

*whispering under my breath* smart a$$

This is a bit off topic, but having visited England (unfortunately not the rest of the UK) I was impressed by the security - not so much the over abundance of CCTV at every corner in London as the mind set of maintaining physical security.
Took a ride on the Eye, noticed every gondola car swept/checked for devices with every change in passengers - you'd never see that here in the USA.
The power lines have barbed wire on them to keep folks off and out of them - I haven't seen anything like this in the US.
In a city of 250,000 they have two (only) police on the streets for patrols and a ton of others in the station watching those CCTVs - and when it's time to go to the scene of the crime, those police come out in force and looked to be armed (well armed).
I've even noticed a few "coppers" outfitted with machine guns at the airport when there was a security alert....

On the other hand, when I was a kid there was constant fighting in Northern Ireland and no lack of firearms and munitions on the part of "ordinary citizens" - not legally of course - but within relatively recent history. No point really other than thing the UK isn't truly firearm free as I've seen plenty of guns in the streets - in the hands of the police - and certainly some out in the countryside for hunting.

ganjoa